Had a weird one a short time ago. I opened a window as I usually do in
the evening and turn it to a radio show I listen to while doing other
things. I move it out of the way and open up another window that i do
unrelated things on. When I closed the second window, it also closed
the window I had out of the way playing the radio. This has never
happened before.

I opened Firefox back up and both windows reappeared. OK, so I closed
the second window and it again closed both windows. Did this three times.

I then closed the first window I originally opened with the radio
playing and it alone closed. I then closed the second window, sit for a
few seconds and reopened and started the radio again, and opened an
additional window to do other things. It then worked as normal and I
could close the second window and the first remained working.

Wondering if anybody has seen this before? Might be a new bug, but I
can see potential problems if you open a second window to check on
something related to the other window and when closing it if both
windows close and you were in the middle of something important you
could be in trouble.

--
Stand With Israel!

On 4/12/2024 8:42 PM, sticks wrote:
> Had a weird one a short time ago.  I opened a window as I usually do in
> the evening and turn it to a radio show I listen to while doing other
> things.  I move it out of the way and open up another window that i do
> unrelated things on.  When I closed the second window, it also closed
> the window I had out of the way playing the radio.  This has never
> happened before.
>

I've had that happen a couple of times. I hadn't thought much of it.
Until recently I've been using FF52 on XP and occasionally FF115 on 7.
Never any problems. I currently have 115ESR on 10 and it seems to
misbehave. A couple of times I've started it up to see, "Gah! Please report
this crash to help us." I scream back, "Calm down and talk like an adult!"

Like you (apparently) I don't like tabs and generally open separate
windows. One of the reasons that I don't like tabs is the problem of
accidentally closing two windows when I only mean to close one. So
maybe there's a tab-window bug? I don't know. I'm finding Win10 to be
generally buggy and unstable, so nothing is surprising me.

On 13/04/2024 at 01:42, sticks wrote:
> Had a weird one a short time ago. I opened a window as I usually do in
> the evening and turn it to a radio show I listen to while doing other
> things. I move it out of the way and open up another window that i do
> unrelated things on. When I closed the second window, it also closed
> the window I had out of the way playing the radio. This has never
> happened before.
>
> I opened Firefox back up and both windows reappeared. OK, so I closed
> the second window and it again closed both windows. Did this three times.
>
> I then closed the first window I originally opened with the radio
> playing and it alone closed. I then closed the second window, sit for a
> few seconds and reopened and started the radio again, and opened an
> additional window to do other things. It then worked as normal and I
> could close the second window and the first remained working.
>
> Wondering if anybody has seen this before? Might be a new bug, but I
> can see potential problems if you open a second window to check on
> something related to the other window and when closing it if both
> windows close and you were in the middle of something important you
> could be in trouble.
>
>

How did you close the window? File/Exit will close both, clicking the
red X should close just that instance.

--
Chris Elvidge, England
THEY ARE LAUGHING AT ME, NOT WITH ME

On 4/13/2024 7:43 AM, Chris Elvidge wrote:
> On 13/04/2024 at 01:42, sticks wrote:
>> Had a weird one a short time ago.  I opened a window as I usually do
>> in the evening and turn it to a radio show I listen to while doing
>> other things.  I move it out of the way and open up another window
>> that i do unrelated things on.  When I closed the second window, it
>> also closed the window I had out of the way playing the radio.  This
>> has never happened before.
>>
>> I opened Firefox back up and both windows reappeared.  OK, so I closed
>> the second window and it again closed both windows.  Did this three
>> times.
>>
>> I then closed the first window I originally opened with the radio
>> playing and it alone closed.  I then closed the second window, sit for
>> a few seconds and reopened and started the radio again, and opened an
>> additional window to do other things.  It then worked as normal and I
>> could close the second window and the first remained working.
>>
>> Wondering if anybody has seen this before?  Might be a new bug, but I
>> can see potential problems if you open a second window to check on
>> something related to the other window and when closing it if both
>> windows close and you were in the middle of something important you
>> could be in trouble.
>>
>>
>
> How did you close the window? File/Exit will close both, clicking the
> red X should close just that instance.

Thanks Chris. That explains it and you're right. I only recently
started using File/Exit after reading here it completely shuts down
Firefox. Now I know it means all windows.

--
Stand With Israel!

sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
>On 4/13/2024 7:43 AM, Chris Elvidge wrote:
>>On 13/04/2024 at 01:42, sticks wrote:

>>>Had a weird one a short time ago. I opened a window as I usually do
>>>in the evening and turn it to a radio show I listen to while doing
>>>other things. I move it out of the way and open up another window
>>>that i do unrelated things on. When I closed the second window, it
>>>also closed the window I had out of the way playing the radio. This
>>>has never happened before.

>>>I opened Firefox back up and both windows reappeared. OK, so I closed
>>>the second window and it again closed both windows. Did this three
>>>times.

>>>I then closed the first window I originally opened with the radio
>>>playing and it alone closed. I then closed the second window, sit for
>>>a few seconds and reopened and started the radio again, and opened an
>>>additional window to do other things. It then worked as normal and I
>>>could close the second window and the first remained working.

>>>Wondering if anybody has seen this before? Might be a new bug, but I
>>>can see potential problems if you open a second window to check on
>>>something related to the other window and when closing it if both
>>>windows close and you were in the middle of something important you
>>>could be in trouble.
>>How did you close the window? File/Exit will close both, clicking the
>>red X should close just that instance.

>Thanks Chris. That explains it and you're right. I only recently
>started using File/Exit after reading here it completely shuts down
>Firefox. Now I know it means all windows.

CTRL-Q (linux) or CTRL-SHIFT-Q (Windows) is the same as File > Exit,
shutting down all processes.

I don't find clicking on the X in the upper right hand corner precise
enough using a mouse pad on the laptop. If the window (or tab on the
window if there are multiple tabs) is in foreground, the keyboard
shortcut to close the window (with single or multiple tabs)
is Alt+F4 or CTRL+SHIFT+W.

To shut down a single tab visible on the screen, regardless of whether
the tab is in foreground or background, I use Right Click > Close. I am
specifically choosing the tab to close. I can also select multiple tabs
with CTRL+Left Click. CTRL+W or CTRL+F4 or Right Click on one selected
tab > close will then close the selected tabs.

CTRL+W or CTRL+F4 close the tab (or selected tabs) in foreground. It's
possible to read a tab and not realize it's in background because it's
not hidden by other windows, and you might close the wrong tab. It's
more precise to select the tab to close with Right Click > Close as that
works on background tabs too whose tab handle is visible.

> Thanks Chris.  That explains it and you're right.  I only recently
> started using File/Exit after reading here it completely shuts down
> Firefox.  Now I know it means all windows.

Not all windows. All tabs. If you had actually had two windows
open then File - Exit or clicking the X should only close that
window.

Newyana2 <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>>Thanks Chris. That explains it and you're right. I only recently
>>started using File/Exit after reading here it completely shuts down
>>Firefox. Now I know it means all windows.

> Not all windows. All tabs. If you had actually had two windows
>open then File - Exit or clicking the X should only close that
>window.

This is not correct.

File > Exit or Ctrl+Q (linux) or Ctrl+Shift+Q (Windows) will exit the
program and close all window, foreground and background, in associated
processes.

Alt+F4 or Ctrl+Shift+W closes the Firefox window in foreground but will
not exit if other windows are open in background. Sometimes this can
leave processes running, so if you think it's the last open window,
then close with File > Exit.

On 4/13/2024 8:47 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
>> On 4/13/2024 7:43 AM, Chris Elvidge wrote:

>>> How did you close the window? File/Exit will close both, clicking the
>>> red X should close just that instance.
>
>> Thanks Chris. That explains it and you're right. I only recently
>> started using File/Exit after reading here it completely shuts down
>> Firefox. Now I know it means all windows.
>
> CTRL-Q (linux) or CTRL-SHIFT-Q (Windows) is the same as File > Exit,
> shutting down all processes.
>
> I don't find clicking on the X in the upper right hand corner precise
> enough using a mouse pad on the laptop. If the window (or tab on the
> window if there are multiple tabs) is in foreground, the keyboard
> shortcut to close the window (with single or multiple tabs)
> is Alt+F4 or CTRL+SHIFT+W.
>
> To shut down a single tab visible on the screen, regardless of whether
> the tab is in foreground or background, I use Right Click > Close. I am
> specifically choosing the tab to close. I can also select multiple tabs
> with CTRL+Left Click. CTRL+W or CTRL+F4 or Right Click on one selected
> tab > close will then close the selected tabs.
>
> CTRL+W or CTRL+F4 close the tab (or selected tabs) in foreground. It's
> possible to read a tab and not realize it's in background because it's
> not hidden by other windows, and you might close the wrong tab. It's
> more precise to select the tab to close with Right Click > Close as that
> works on background tabs too whose tab handle is visible.

Thanks for the tips, Adam. Now if I can only remember them

--
Stand With Israel!

On 4/13/2024 3:48 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> Newyana2 <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>
>>> Thanks Chris. That explains it and you're right. I only recently
>>> started using File/Exit after reading here it completely shuts down
>>> Firefox. Now I know it means all windows.
>
>> Not all windows. All tabs. If you had actually had two windows
>> open then File - Exit or clicking the X should only close that
>> window.
>
> This is not correct.
>
> File > Exit or Ctrl+Q (linux) or Ctrl+Shift+Q (Windows) will exit the
> program and close all window, foreground and background, in associated
> processes.

I stand corrected. How odd. I haven't used File -> Exit for years.
I've never seen a program that will close all windows when one
window is closed. Fortunately, clicking the X works as it should.

On 4/13/24 5:05 PM, Newyana2 wrote:
> On 4/13/2024 3:48 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>> Newyana2 <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>
>>>> Thanks Chris. That explains it and you're right. I only recently
>>>> started using File/Exit after reading here it completely shuts down
>>>> Firefox. Now I know it means all windows.

You mean all FIREFOX windows, right? Wouldn't touch photoshop, right?

>>> Not all windows. All tabs. If you had actually had two windows
>>> open then File - Exit or clicking the X should only close that
>>> window.
>>
>> This is not correct.
>>
>> File > Exit or Ctrl+Q (linux) or Ctrl+Shift+Q (Windows) will exit the
>> program and close all window, foreground and background, in associated
>> processes.
>
> I stand corrected. How odd. I haven't used File -> Exit for years.
> I've never seen a program that will close all windows when one
> window is closed. Fortunately, clicking the X works as it should.

Control-alt-backspace shuts down X (linux)as well as all the open
windows (obviously), but I hate doing that -- I just don't trust things
to do the right thing.

--
Cheers, Bev
Everyone crashes. Some get back on. Some don't. Some can't.

On 4/14/2024 2:01 AM, The Real Bev wrote:

>> File/Exit after reading here it completely shuts down
Firefox. Now I know it means all windows.
>>
> You mean all FIREFOX windows, right?  Wouldn't touch photoshop, right?

All Firefox, yes. I've never seen another program do that.
Perhaps it's part of Mozilla's obsession with having only
tabbed windows. I miss the days when everyone followed
Microsot'f UI design rules. (Except Microsoft, of course.)
I recently tried a ZIP program that wouldn't allow me to
have anything but a squash-color window and looked like
a Metro program. And that was on XP!

> Control-alt-backspace shuts down X (linux)as well as all the open
> windows (obviously), but I hate doing that -- I just don't trust things
> to do the right thing.
>

I've considered writing a VBScript or small program for closing all
open windows, to avoid having to go through each one. So far I haven't
got around to it. There are different levels of shutting down on Windows.
If one uses the call to tell the program to finish up and close, rather
than just killing it, then it would work 99% of the time and also
provide a chance to save open files and such... At least that's what
the software is supposed to do, if it's not frozen.

On 14/04/2024 at 01:05, Newyana2 wrote:
> On 4/13/2024 3:48 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>> Newyana2 <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>
>>>> Thanks Chris. That explains it and you're right. I only recently
>>>> started using File/Exit after reading here it completely shuts down
>>>> Firefox. Now I know it means all windows.
>>
>>> Not all windows. All tabs. If you had actually had two windows
>>> open then File - Exit or clicking the X should only close that
>>> window.
>>
>> This is not correct.
>>
>> File > Exit or Ctrl+Q (linux) or Ctrl+Shift+Q (Windows) will exit the
>> program and close all window, foreground and background, in associated
>> processes.
>
> I stand corrected. How odd. I haven't used File -> Exit for years.
> I've never seen a program that will close all windows when one
> window is closed. Fortunately, clicking the X works as it should.

I also use Seamonkey/Seamonkey Mail on Slackware.
Using File/Quit closes both Seamonkey windows there, too (and the
Downloads window).

--
Chris Elvidge, England
I WILL NOT BARF UNLESS I'M SICK

In alt.comp.software.firefox, on Sun, 14 Apr 2024 09:26:26 -0400,
Newyana2 <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>On 4/14/2024 2:01 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>>> File/Exit after reading here it completely shuts down
>Firefox. Now I know it means all windows.
>>>
>> You mean all FIREFOX windows, right?  Wouldn't touch photoshop, right?
>
> All Firefox, yes. I've never seen another program do that.

That's not so. Chrome does it**.

If you could only close one window at a time and you had 10 FF windows
open, it would take quite a while to close FF, but what's worse is that
when you restarted FF, only the last remaining window would reopen. The
others would, hopefully, be in the list of recently closed windows but
you'd have to reopen them one at time too.

Wh\at is so hard about differentiating Close Window from Exit Program?
If you are exiting the program, doesn't that mean you're closing all the
windows?

Maybe FF is getting slow because a lot of once opened tabs keep doing
things, using RAM and CPU. Closing all of FF (that is, exiting) is
needed so that upon restart, things will work well again.

What if you are closing down Windows itself? AFAICT, it goes more
quickly if you close FF and other programs before you do Winkey Shutdown
or Restart. Do you want to have to close each FF window separtely.

If you don't believe me about Chrome, the command is in the 3 dots at
the far right, the bottom entry is Exit. But Chome has a stupid
practice of only reopening one window with a box that asks if I want to
reopen the rest. Not only do I usually want all of them but I'm afraid
if I don't reopen them all, and just keep one window open, when I close
that one, the next time it will have forgotten what the other windows
were. I think I've looked more than once in the settings to make it
just open all of them and I can't find anything.

**I don't use Edge but it too has 3 dots in the upper right corner and
at the bottom of the drop-down is Close Microsft Edge. That means
all windows.

>Perhaps it's part of Mozilla's obsession with having only
>tabbed windows. I miss the days when everyone followed
>Microsot'f UI design rules. (Except Microsoft, of course.)
>I recently tried a ZIP program that wouldn't allow me to
>have anything but a squash-color window and looked like
>a Metro program. And that was on XP!
>
>> Control-alt-backspace shuts down X (linux)as well as all the open
>> windows (obviously), but I hate doing that -- I just don't trust things
>> to do the right thing.
>>
>
> I've considered writing a VBScript or small program for closing all
>open windows, to avoid having to go through each one.

For Firefox or all windows altogether? Either way, if you've considered
this, you see the need for Exit Program, and fortunately we already have
it.

> So far I haven't
>got around to it. There are different levels of shutting down on Windows.
>If one uses the call to tell the program to finish up and close, rather
>than just killing it, then it would work 99% of the time and also
>provide a chance to save open files and such... At least that's what
>the software is supposed to do, if it's not frozen.

In alt.comp.software.firefox, on Sat, 13 Apr 2024 13:47:51 -0000 (UTC),
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
>>On 4/13/2024 7:43 AM, Chris Elvidge wrote:
>>>On 13/04/2024 at 01:42, sticks wrote:
>
>>>>Had a weird one a short time ago. I opened a window as I usually do
>>>>in the evening and turn it to a radio show I listen to while doing
>>>>other things. I move it out of the way and open up another window
>>>>that i do unrelated things on. When I closed the second window, it
>>>>also closed the window I had out of the way playing the radio. This
>>>>has never happened before.
>
>>>>I opened Firefox back up and both windows reappeared. OK, so I closed
>>>>the second window and it again closed both windows. Did this three
>>>>times.
>
>>>>I then closed the first window I originally opened with the radio
>>>>playing and it alone closed. I then closed the second window, sit for
>>>>a few seconds and reopened and started the radio again, and opened an
>>>>additional window to do other things. It then worked as normal and I
>>>>could close the second window and the first remained working.
>
>>>>Wondering if anybody has seen this before? Might be a new bug, but I
>>>>can see potential problems if you open a second window to check on
>>>>something related to the other window and when closing it if both
>>>>windows close and you were in the middle of something important you
>>>>could be in trouble.
>
>>>How did you close the window? File/Exit will close both, clicking the
>>>red X should close just that instance.
>
>>Thanks Chris. That explains it and you're right. I only recently
>>started using File/Exit after reading here it completely shuts down
>>Firefox. Now I know it means all windows.
>
>CTRL-Q (linux) or CTRL-SHIFT-Q (Windows) is the same as File > Exit,
>shutting down all processes.

Windows only discussion here: Except the File dropdown in the past did
not have as a keyboard version of Exit, CTRL-SHIFT-Q. It had Alt+F4, or
somethign with F4. Why did they change it and what are the other
consequences?
>
>I don't find clicking on the X in the upper right hand corner precise
>enough using a mouse pad on the laptop. If the window (or tab on the
>window if there are multiple tabs) is in foreground, the keyboard
>shortcut to close the window (with single or multiple tabs)
>is Alt+F4 or CTRL+SHIFT+W.

CTRL+SHIFT+W is clearly meant to be the heightened, upper-case version
of Ctrl-W, which only close one tab, but so CTRL+SHIFT+W closes all
tabs, in that window.

>To shut down a single tab visible on the screen, regardless of whether
>the tab is in foreground or background, I use Right Click > Close. I am

I use Ctrl-W or I click on the x in the tab's tab. When tabs first came
out every tab had an X and you could click on the wrong one if you were
not careful. (I use a wired mouse, even with the laptop, even when I
travel.)

>specifically choosing the tab to close. I can also select multiple tabs
>with CTRL+Left Click. CTRL+W or CTRL+F4 or Right Click on one selected
>tab > close will then close the selected tabs.
>
>CTRL+W or CTRL+F4 close the tab (or selected tabs) in foreground. It's
>possible to read a tab and not realize it's in background because it's
>not hidden by other windows, and you might close the wrong tab. It's

Do you mean you have two windows of FF and the one on top is smaller
than the other and if you are looking at the one underneath and do
ctrl-W you will close one of the tabs on top, not the one you are
looking at. I can imagine that happening on occasion but I maximize all
my FF windows (and all my other windows** that it's possible to
maximize) so it won't happen to me. I can't see what is not on top.

**Except when I'm dragging files from one file manager window to
another.

>more precise to select the tab to close with Right Click > Close as that
>works on background tabs too whose tab handle is visible.

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>Sat, 13 Apr 2024 13:47:51 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:

>>. . .

>>CTRL+W or CTRL+F4 close the tab (or selected tabs) in foreground. It's
>>possible to read a tab and not realize it's in background because it's
>>not hidden by other windows, and you might close the wrong tab. It's

>Do you mean you have two windows of FF and the one on top is smaller
>than the other and if you are looking at the one underneath and do
>ctrl-W you will close one of the tabs on top, not the one you are
>looking at.

Multiple windows may be shown on the screen; none may overlap. Only one
window is the active window in foreground. Keyboard commands work only
on the window or tab in the window in foreground. If I have two windows
open, one may be on the left and the other on the right with no overlap.
The window on the left may be the one in foreground, but I've finished
with the one on the right. If I use a keyboard command, it acts on the
window on the left. If I right click on the specific tab I wish to
close, it acts on the tab I clicked regardless of foreground or
background. If it opens the mini menu, then the next command will work
on that tab.

>I can imagine that happening on occasion but I maximize all
>my FF windows (and all my other windows** that it's possible to
>maximize) so it won't happen to me. I can't see what is not on top.

>**Except when I'm dragging files from one file manager window to
>another.

>>more precise to select the tab to close with Right Click > Close as that
>>works on background tabs too whose tab handle is visible.

On 2024-04-14 15:26, Newyana2 wrote:
> On 4/14/2024 2:01 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>>> File/Exit after reading here it completely shuts down
> Firefox. Now I know it means all windows.
>>>
>> You mean all FIREFOX windows, right?  Wouldn't touch photoshop, right?
>
>    All Firefox, yes. I've never seen another program do that.

Many programs do it. The menu option to exit a program exits all windows
of the program, otherwise it can't be called "exit 'program'".

For example, LibreOffice has a menu entry named "Exit LibreOffice" and
another named "close".

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-04-14 08:01, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 4/13/24 5:05 PM, Newyana2 wrote:
>> On 4/13/2024 3:48 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>> Newyana2 <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

....

>>     I stand corrected. How odd. I haven't used File -> Exit for years.
>> I've never seen a program that will close all windows when one
>> window is closed. Fortunately, clicking the X works as it should.
>
> Control-alt-backspace shuts down X (linux)as well as all the open
> windows (obviously), but I hate doing that -- I just don't trust things
> to do the right thing.

ctrl-alt-backspace (twice) murders everything in the current graphical
session. Brutally. Nothing is saved.

Only thing saved are those that were saved in advance, like applications
having autosave.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 4/15/2024 2:30 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>>     All Firefox, yes. I've never seen another program do that.
>
> Many programs do it. The menu option to exit a program exits all windows
> of the program, otherwise it can't be called "exit 'program'".
>
> For example, LibreOffice has a menu entry named "Exit LibreOffice" and
> another named "close".
>

You're right. Libre Office does it. But it is non-standard behavior.
It's treating SDI windows as tabs in an MDI window. I haven't found
any other program that does it. Either they only allow one instance,
or each instance is and SDI window. (single document interface)

I just went along my taskbar: Filezilla, Notepad, Visual Studio 6,
PeaZip, Sumatra, IrfanView, Paint Shop Pro, VLC, and an HLP file.
All are either MDI or work as expected, with File Exit closing only
that window. What FF and LO are doing is treating all SDI windows
as floating document windows in an MDI window. Which is especially
odd given that FF goes to the trouble of running different windows
in different processes.

Lucky for me that I never use File Exit or File Quit. But it's good to
know for when I have 10 FF windows open and want to go offline.

In alt.comp.software.firefox, on Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:22:01 -0400, micky
<NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

>
>
>**I don't use Edge but it too has 3 dots in the upper right corner and
>at the bottom of the drop-down is Close Microsft Edge. That means
>all windows.

Oops. It probably doesn't or it would say Exit. But Chrome still works
like FF. I use Chrome too and I know from experience.

In alt.comp.software.firefox, on Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:56:32 -0400,
Newyana2 <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>On 4/15/2024 2:30 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>>>     All Firefox, yes. I've never seen another program do that.
>>
>> Many programs do it. The menu option to exit a program exits all windows
>> of the program, otherwise it can't be called "exit 'program'".
>>
>> For example, LibreOffice has a menu entry named "Exit LibreOffice" and
>> another named "close".
>>
>
> You're right. Libre Office does it. But it is non-standard behavior.
>It's treating SDI windows as tabs in an MDI window. I haven't found
>any other program that does it.

Did you not read my reply to your previous post? Did you look at
Chrome?

>Either they only allow one instance,
>or each instance is and SDI window. (single document interface)
>
> I just went along my taskbar: Filezilla, Notepad, Visual Studio 6,
>PeaZip, Sumatra, IrfanView, Paint Shop Pro, VLC, and an HLP file.
>All are either MDI or work as expected, with File Exit closing only
>that window. What FF and LO are doing is treating all SDI windows
>as floating document windows in an MDI window. Which is especially

Using technical terms takes one farther from the question.

What do you think Exit means, if it doesn't mean close all FF or Chrome
windows?

Is there no difference for you between Close and Exit?

What should one do if he wants one command that will close all the FF
windows?

>odd given that FF goes to the trouble of running different windows
>in different processes.
>
> Lucky for me that I never use File Exit or File Quit. But it's good to
> know for when I have 10 FF windows open and want to go offline.

On 2024-04-15 21:56, Newyana2 wrote:
> On 4/15/2024 2:30 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>>>     All Firefox, yes. I've never seen another program do that.
>>
>> Many programs do it. The menu option to exit a program exits all
>> windows of the program, otherwise it can't be called "exit 'program'".
>>
>> For example, LibreOffice has a menu entry named "Exit LibreOffice" and
>> another named "close".
>>
>
>   You're right. Libre Office does it. But it is non-standard behavior.
> It's treating SDI windows as tabs in an MDI window. I haven't found
> any other program that does it. Either they only allow one instance,
> or each instance is and SDI window. (single document interface)

All the programs I use, when I use the menu "exit" they exit fully the
application. I can not remember any that doesn't.

Unless they are not windows of the same application, but actually a new
instance of the application. For example, if you start peazip twice,
that's two independent applications.

I can also start two different firefoxes, each with a different profile.
Exiting one doesn't exit the other.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 4/16/2024 8:39 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> All the programs I use, when I use the menu "exit" they exit fully the
> application. I can not remember any that doesn't.
>
All what programs? I just listed several that all act as expected.
Only LO and FF are aberrant.

> Unless they are not windows of the same application, but actually a new
> instance of the application. For example, if you start peazip twice,
> that's two independent applications.
>
> I can also start two different firefoxes, each with a different profile.
> Exiting one doesn't exit the other.
>

There are two kinds of windows: SDI and MDI. Tabs is an MDI
or multiple document interface window. You're mixing up topics.
Profiles has nothing to do with it. If I start 2 separate FF windows,
going to File -> Exit in one will quit both. No different profiles.
That's not supposed to happen.

I can open 10 separate FF
windows and sometimes do, because I don't like tabs. Each closes
singly if I click the X. All close if I go to File -> Exit. That shouldn't
happen. One way of closing is closing a single instance. The other
is closing all instances as though the separate windows were tabs.
Both should only close that window.

Every program should be either SDI or MDI, and it's up to the
developer whether multiple instances can be open. Some, like
Irfan View, let you choose. Separate
instances should not be linked. In most cases, an MDI program
window will not allow separate instances, anyway. For example,
Thunderbird or PDF XChange Viewer. Each will only open one
window at a time.

How have you used Windows for so long and didn't know it
worked this way? I don't know what the Mozilla and LO people
are thinking. Maybe they're copying a Mac or Linux protocol.
I'm glad to know it, though. I often get a lot of FF windows
open. It's tedious to walk the taskbar doing right-click, Close
window. Now I know that I can close all of them at once.

In alt.comp.software.firefox, on Tue, 16 Apr 2024 13:54:48 -0400,
Newyana2 <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>On 4/16/2024 8:39 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> All the programs I use, when I use the menu "exit" they exit fully the
>> application. I can not remember any that doesn't.
>>
> All what programs? I just listed several that all act as expected.
>Only LO and FF are aberrant.

It depends on what you think is normal. I think FF is not aberrant.
It's normal. It works just like Chrome. You listed several but
skipped Chrome, which is a *web browser*, unlike all the others you
listed.

(You don't seem to have seen my previous posts, so maybe I'm included,
by accident I'm sure, in some newsreader filter.)

You listed "Filezilla, Notepad, Visual Studio 6,
PeaZip, Sumatra, IrfanView, Paint Shop Pro, VLC, and an HLP file.
All are either MDI or work as expected, with File Exit closing only
that window. " Do any of these actually allow one to open an
additional window from within the program itself? I think not so they
are not comparable to FF. They are red herrings.

>> Unless they are not windows of the same application, but actually a new
>> instance of the application. For example, if you start peazip twice,
>> that's two independent applications.

I think Carlos figured it out when he points out just below how two
*separate* instances can be started, and Exit only closes the one in
focus. I would add that by clicking on a file that brings up Notepad,
Visual Studio 6, IrfanView, Paint Shop Pro, VLC, or the HLP program, you
have also started a new instance of the program. So of course Exiting
it only exits one window.

I tried Irfanview and there is no way to start a second instance of it.
So it's not parallel, not comparable to Firefox, where new instances are
started from within FF by Alt-N. I'm pretty sure all of the others you
list are the same. With none can you start a second window from the
program.

Carlos said:
>> I can also start two different firefoxes, each with a different profile.
>> Exiting one doesn't exit the other.
>>
>
> There are two kinds of windows: SDI and MDI. Tabs is an MDI
>or multiple document interface window. You're mixing up topics.

I think you have changed the subject. Even you don't think it's
"aberrant" that all tabs get closed when one uses Exit. Your complaint
WAS that more than one window, that is all the windows except for those
started under a different profile, get closed by Exit.

>Profiles has nothing to do with it. If I start 2 separate FF windows,
>going to File -> Exit in one will quit both.

No, AFAiCR, not if you started them separately using two profiles.

>No different profiles.

But Carlos was talking about different profiles, so you can't now say
"no different profiles". You're no longer arguing with Carlos.

>That's not supposed to happen.
>
> I can open 10 separate FF
>windows and sometimes do, because I don't like tabs. Each closes
>singly if I click the X. All close if I go to File -> Exit. That shouldn't
>happen.

No, it absolutely should. If Exit didn't close all 10 FF windows, you'd
have to close each one separately. ?What a pain that would be!

Say you realize a new version of FF is available, and you want to
install it. It won't install until all windows are closed, and you're
spending 5 minutes closing 10 windows.

> One way of closing is closing a single instance. The other
>is closing all instances as though the separate windows were tabs.
>Both should only close that window.
>
> Every program should be either SDI or MDI, and it's up to the
>developer whether multiple instances can be open. Some, like
>Irfan View, let you choose. Separate
>instances should not be linked.

So Chrome is not written right, either?

And I spent some more time with MS Edge, written by MS itself!! It has
no Menu Bar, but I found one main drop down, 3 dots on the right, that
allows one to start a new window. Ctrl-N will also start one. So
when I got up to 5 windows, some with multiple tabs, I noticed that the
same drop-down list of commands didn't have Exit, but it did have Close
Microsoft Edge, and guess what? when I clicked on it, it closed all 5
windows in one click. Another aberration, or the standard for web
browsers?

> In most cases, an MDI program
>window will not allow separate instances, anyway. For example,
>Thunderbird or PDF XChange Viewer. Each will only open one
>window at a time.

Then they are irrelevant to this discussion.

> How have you used Windows for so long and didn't know it
>worked this way? I don't know what the Mozilla and LO people
>are thinking. Maybe they're copying a Mac or Linux protocol.
>I'm glad to know it, though. I often get a lot of FF windows
>open. It's tedious to walk the taskbar doing right-click, Close
>window.

Darn right, it's tedious. No wonder Windows standards give a way around
it.

>Now I know that I can close all of them at once.

On 4/16/2024 8:13 PM, SomeoneNeverSeenBefore@Wonderland.com wrote:

> You listed "Filezilla, Notepad, Visual Studio 6,
> PeaZip, Sumatra, IrfanView, Paint Shop Pro, VLC, and an HLP file.
> All are either MDI or work as expected, with File Exit closing only
> that window. " Do any of these actually allow one to open an
> additional window from within the program itself? I think not so they
> are not comparable to FF. They are red herrings.
>

As I explained, if you can open multiple documents within
the window that's an MDI. Typically those only allow one parent
window. It's a simple concept: The instance should close via
File -> Exit or clicking the X. That's true whether that instance
has multiple documents/tabs open or not. But closing an insatnce
should not close all instances. FF is doing it both ways. The X
acts as expected. File - Exit does not.

> I would add that by clicking on a file that brings up Notepad,
> Visual Studio 6, IrfanView, Paint Shop Pro, VLC, or the HLP program, you
> have also started a new instance of the program. So of course Exiting
> it only exits one window.
>

In all cases I clicked a Quick Launch shortcut.

> I tried Irfanview and there is no way to start a second instance of it.

Not true. I explained above that IV provides a choice. It defaults
to multiple instances. Open Options -> Start-Exit Options to see it.

> So it's not parallel, not comparable to Firefox, where new instances are
> started from within FF by Alt-N. I'm pretty sure all of the others you
> list are the same. With none can you start a second window from the
> program.
>

You don't seem to have read my post. With all of the ones I listed,
any number of instances can be started by clicking a shortcut. That
includes FF. You might open a new tab from within FF. A tab is not a
window. It's a document subwindow within an MDI. I never open new
tabs in FF. I click the shortcut and start a new instance. I often have
5-10 separate FF "badges" on the taskbar.

> I think you have changed the subject. Even you don't think it's
> "aberrant" that all tabs get closed when one uses Exit. Your complaint
> WAS that more than one window, that is all the windows except for those
> started under a different profile, get closed by Exit.
>
>> Profiles has nothing to do with it. If I start 2 separate FF windows,
>> going to File -> Exit in one will quit both.
>
> No, AFAiCR, not if you started them separately using two profiles.
>

Right. Try to read what I actually wrote rather than trying
to win an argument.

In alt.comp.software.firefox, on Tue, 16 Apr 2024 22:59:25 -0400,
Newyana2 <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>
>>
>>> Profiles has nothing to do with it. If I start 2 separate FF windows,
>>> going to File -> Exit in one will quit both.
>>
>> No, FAiCR, not if you started them separately using two profiles.
>>

It's late and I haven't time to reply to the whole post tonight, but....

> Right. Try to read what I actually wrote rather than trying
>to win an argument.

If anyone seems like he did not read another's posts and is trying to
win an argument, it seems to be you, because you talk about a lot of
things but not about other webbrowsers. For 3 times now, you've ignored
that Chrome acts like FF and this time you also ignore that so does
Edge.

You list lots of non-webbrowswers and it's not surprising they work
differently because they have different functions from webbrowsers.

Did you not see my first two posts, whose listed author was Micky?