This latest thunderbird version changed the design of the interface. I
am not in love with it.

It is just harder to find things and to use. I don't understand the
need to change working designs.

Popping Mad wrote:

> This latest thunderbird version changed the design of the interface. I
> am not in love with it.

Then pop along to a.c.s.thunderbird for some suggestions ...

Am 23.07.23 um 08:42 schrieb Popping Mad:
> This latest thunderbird version changed the design of the interface. I
> am not in love with it.
>
> It is just harder to find things and to use. I don't understand the
> need to change working designs.

The Thunderbird (115+) is better prepared for the future than ever. This
is a major development at the code level.

There will certainly be some teething problems but they will be solved
quickly.

--
Prudentia potentia est

Am 23.07.23 um 08:42 schrieb Popping Mad:
> This latest thunderbird version changed the design of the interface. I
> am not in love with it.
>
> It is just harder to find things and to use. I don't understand the
> need to change working designs.
>

https://www.ghacks.net/2023/07/11/thunderbird-115-released-with-updated-ui-and-major-changes/

--
Prudentia potentia est

In article <u9insa$77nb$2@solani.org>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>Am 23.07.23 um 08:42 schrieb Popping Mad:
>> This latest thunderbird version changed the design of the interface. I
>> am not in love with it.
>>
>> It is just harder to find things and to use. I don't understand the
>> need to change working designs.
>>
>
>https://www.ghacks.net/2023/07/11/thunderbird-115-released-with-updated-ui-
>and-major-changes/

Yes, I know this is a Linux group, but I just checked my version info on my
Windows TBird setup, and it says it is version 102 and that it is
up-to-date. And I note that the UI is pretty much same as it ever was.

Is this new 115 thing only for Linux? (Which would be a Good Thing, IMHO;
I don't *want* newfangled thingies)

--
People often ask what is the difference between liberals and conservatives.
It is this. Libs see the government helping them and are OK with the government
also helping other people. Cons see the government screwing them and are OK
with that as long as the government is also screwing other people.

Am 23.07.23 um 11:28 schrieb Kenny McCormack:
> In article <u9insa$77nb$2@solani.org>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>> Am 23.07.23 um 08:42 schrieb Popping Mad:
>>> This latest thunderbird version changed the design of the interface. I
>>> am not in love with it.
>>>
>>> It is just harder to find things and to use. I don't understand the
>>> need to change working designs.
>>>
>>
>> https://www.ghacks.net/2023/07/11/thunderbird-115-released-with-updated-ui-
>> and-major-changes/
>
> Yes, I know this is a Linux group, but I just checked my version info on my
> Windows TBird setup, and it says it is version 102 and that it is
> up-to-date. And I note that the UI is pretty much same as it ever was.

It is. If you get TB from your distro's repo it will be still the
102.13.0 (64-Bit). Only fresh installs and downloaded TBs are at
115.0.1. Automatic update on Windows or Mac will come later.

> Is this new 115 thing only for Linux? (Which would be a Good Thing, IMHO;
> I don't *want* newfangled thingies)

You will upgrade at one point irrespective of the OS.

--
Faber est suae quisque fortunae

Kenny McCormack wrote:

> I just checked my version info on my Windows TBird setup, and it says it
> is version 102 and that it is up-to-date.

v115 is the newest version, but it won't yet be an automatic upgrade,
your v102 will still say it's up to date (and to be fair it's only a
couple of weeks since the latest 102.x.y point release).

But next month you will be offered the v115 update, or you could
manually download it now, if you want it.

On 2023-07-23 11:28, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article <u9insa$77nb$2@solani.org>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>> Am 23.07.23 um 08:42 schrieb Popping Mad:
>>> This latest thunderbird version changed the design of the interface. I
>>> am not in love with it.
>>>
>>> It is just harder to find things and to use. I don't understand the
>>> need to change working designs.
>>>
>>
>> https://www.ghacks.net/2023/07/11/thunderbird-115-released-with-updated-ui-
>> and-major-changes/
>
> Yes, I know this is a Linux group, but I just checked my version info on my
> Windows TBird setup, and it says it is version 102 and that it is
> up-to-date. And I note that the UI is pretty much same as it ever was.
>
> Is this new 115 thing only for Linux? (Which would be a Good Thing, IMHO;
> I don't *want* newfangled thingies)
>

102 is a long support version, and stable. 116 is Beta.

I'm trying to get to a page with all versions for downloading, but the
download click just starts downloading without asking the linux version.

https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/

maybe if you go there directly it will download the 115 windows version
for you.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Thunderbird>, table "Release
compatibility", has links to the Windows version and says it is 115.

<https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/115.0/win64/>

There select your language, and you see the exe or msi.

https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/115.0/win64/en-US/

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Kenny McCormack wrote:

> I don't want newfangled thingies

The problem is, that thunderbird has got quite crufty, it relies on
parts of the firefix code that mozilla has moved on from, people expect
fixes to keep up with changing security requirements, but that gets
difficult for the developers.

So for at least the last year, they have been grasping the nettle and
replaced big chunks of old code, of course this has lead to some
"unwanted" UI changes, and I don't want those any more than the next
person, but there are still ways to make it look and work very close to
the old way, with a couple of add-ons and some userChrome css tweaks.

On 7/23/23 04:18, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> The Thunderbird (115+) is better prepared for the future than ever. This
> is a major development at the code level.

we've herd that before, except that it is now ugly and hard to use.

On 7/23/23 04:20, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 23.07.23 um 08:42 schrieb Popping Mad:
>> This latest thunderbird version changed the design of the interface. I
>> am not in love with it.
>>
>> It is just harder to find things and to use. I don't understand the
>> need to change working designs.
>>
>
> https://www.ghacks.net/2023/07/11/thunderbird-115-released-with-updated-ui-and-major-changes/
>
listing dozens of new and changed features.>>

Absultely unneed and unwanted.

On 7/23/23 05:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> only fresh installs and downloaded TBs are at 115.0.1.

Nope , mine was updated by pacman on artix.

On 7/23/23 05:46, Andy Burns wrote:
> Kenny McCormack wrote:
>
>> I don't want newfangled thingies
>
> The problem is, that thunderbird has got quite crufty, it relies on
> parts of the firefix code that mozilla has moved on from, people expect
> fixes to keep up with changing security requirements, but that gets
> difficult for the developers.
>

Why would an mature and tested codebase be ***less secure*** than a new
one. That makes little sense.

> So for at least the last year, they have been grasping the nettle and
> replaced big chunks of old code, of course this has lead to some
> "unwanted" UI changes,

Yeah - it is ugly and hard to use with the menu bar in the wrong place
and the download button removed and turned to a less functional widget.

And what is that useless junk on the lefthand side?

> and I don't want those any more than the next
> person, but there are still ways to make it look and work very close to
> the old way, with a couple of add-ons and some userChrome css tweaks.
>

Popping Mad wrote:

> Why would an mature and tested codebase be ***less secure*** than a new
> one.

Because encryption and authentication standards move on, try logging in
to major email providers with SSL3 and without oAuth2.

> it is ugly and hard to use with the menu bar in the wrong place
> and the download button removed and turned to a less functional widget.

Your complaints about menu bar and the spaces toolbar are mostly
addressed in the thunderbird newsgroup I referred you to ...

On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 05:42:17 -0400, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/115.0/win64/en-US/

The linux version is there too. Go to ...
https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/115.0/linux-x86_64/
and then select the language directory where the tar.bz2 archive and it's
ascii pgp signature are available.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

On 2023-07-23 14:16, Popping Mad wrote:
> On 7/23/23 05:46, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Kenny McCormack wrote:
>>
>>> I don't want newfangled thingies
>>
>> The problem is, that thunderbird has got quite crufty, it relies on
>> parts of the firefix code that mozilla has moved on from, people expect
>> fixes to keep up with changing security requirements, but that gets
>> difficult for the developers.
>>
>
> Why would an mature and tested codebase be ***less secure*** than a new
> one. That makes little sense.

Actually, it makes much sense.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Am 23.07.23 um 14:09 schrieb Popping Mad:
> On 7/23/23 04:18, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> The Thunderbird (115+) is better prepared for the future than ever. This
>> is a major development at the code level.
>
> we've herd that before, except that it is now ugly and hard to use.

It is always the same old story: When something changes the whining
starts. After a couple of minor and maintenance releases things will
settle. Believe me: you will get used to it.
You can also test Betterbird:

https://www.betterbird.eu/downloads/index.php

--
Ut sementem feceris, ita metes (Cicero)

Am 23.07.23 um 14:16 schrieb Popping Mad:
> On 7/23/23 05:46, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Kenny McCormack wrote:
>>
>>> I don't want newfangled thingies
>>
>> The problem is, that thunderbird has got quite crufty, it relies on
>> parts of the firefix code that mozilla has moved on from, people expect
>> fixes to keep up with changing security requirements, but that gets
>> difficult for the developers.
>>
>
> Why would an mature and tested codebase be ***less secure*** than a new
> one. That makes little sense.

Not at all. If the new code is by design more secure it is clear.
We are discussing the lift of the TB-code to the current FF-technology.

--
Ut sementem feceris, ita metes (Cicero)

Am 23.07.23 um 14:10 schrieb Popping Mad:
> On 7/23/23 04:20, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 23.07.23 um 08:42 schrieb Popping Mad:
>>> This latest thunderbird version changed the design of the interface. I
>>> am not in love with it.
>>>
>>> It is just harder to find things and to use. I don't understand the
>>> need to change working designs.
>>>
>>
>> https://www.ghacks.net/2023/07/11/thunderbird-115-released-with-updated-ui-and-major-changes/
>>
> listing dozens of new and changed features.>>
>
> Absultely unneed and unwanted.

You are not alone on this planet. Who needs what and when is beyond your
judgement. The new code and perhaps some of the features are a necessity
to survive for Thunderbird and Betterbird.

--
Ut sementem feceris, ita metes (Cicero)

On 2023-07-23 08:16, Popping Mad wrote:
> Yeah - it is ugly and hard to use with the menu bar in the wrong place
> and the download button removed and turned to a less functional widget.
>
> And what is that useless junk on the lefthand side?
>
You can make it look like the old interface if you don't like the new one:

"Good news is that Thunderbird 115 includes lots of customization
options to change the look and feel of the client. Select Menu > View
and then Toolbars, Layouts or Folders to get customization options. Want
to bring back the Menu bar? You can do that there. Dislike the new
layout of panes? You can restore the classic view. Want the table design
of emails? You find that option there as well so that switching from
Cards view is just a matter of a few clicks."

Reminds me of how Plasma changes with every new release, but if you look
around you can find how to bring the old look-and-feel back..

TJ

On 23.07.23 14:12, Popping Mad wrote:
> On 7/23/23 05:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> only fresh installs and downloaded TBs are at 115.0.1.
>
> Nope , mine was updated by pacman on artix.

Not very wise to use that. Now you can't go back to the old TB because
the profile changed in a way that it is not possible to go back to the
good old 102 anymore without some more detailed knowledge.

--
Sent with Bettterbird from an Intel-Mac. Simply better.
www.betterbird.eu

Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> wrote:
> This latest thunderbird version changed the design of the interface. I
> am not in love with it.

I've never been a Thunderbird user, but I am quite disappointed
that the new version apparantly no longer includes lots of nice
juicy info about user's operating system in the User-Agent header
when they post to Usenet. User-Agent spying has been keeping me
entertained (arguably easily) for years.

The release notes suggest that the old User-Agent info can be
re-enabled in Thunderbird's settings.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On 7/23/23 5:38 AM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 23.07.23 um 11:28 schrieb Kenny McCormack:
>> In article <u9insa$77nb$2@solani.org>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>> Am 23.07.23 um 08:42 schrieb Popping Mad:
>>>> This latest thunderbird version changed the design of the interface. I
>>>> am not in love with it.
>>>>
>>>> It is just harder to find things and to use. I don't understand the
>>>> need to change working designs.
>>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.ghacks.net/2023/07/11/thunderbird-115-released-with-updated-ui-
>>> and-major-changes/
>>
>> Yes, I know this is a Linux group, but I just checked my version info on my
>> Windows TBird setup, and it says it is version 102 and that it is
>> up-to-date. And I note that the UI is pretty much same as it ever was.
>
> It is. If you get TB from your distro's repo it will be still the
> 102.13.0 (64-Bit). Only fresh installs and downloaded TBs are at
> 115.0.1. Automatic update on Windows or Mac will come later.
>
>> Is this new 115 thing only for Linux? (Which would be a Good Thing, IMHO;
>> I don't *want* newfangled thingies)
>
> You will upgrade at one point irrespective of the OS.

Um ... no. I will lock-in the older version. No 'upgrades'.
Will archive the current version so I can always re-install
it.

"Upgrades" are often TRIVIAL CRAP so developers can claim
"progress". Generally they make things WORSE. We've seen
this with M$ - making their office apps ever more stupid.

I'd strongly prefer a Win-98 look that simply, easily,
exposes all options than some eye-candy monstrosity
for "today". Linux should always be about "what works",
not an attempt to emulate the latest idiocies of M$
or Apple. There's no POINT in Linux otherwise.

Am 24.07.23 um 04:42 schrieb 36J.256:
> On 7/23/23 5:38 AM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> You will upgrade at one point irrespective of the OS.
>
>
> Um ... no. I will lock-in the older version. No 'upgrades'.
> Will archive the current version so I can always re-install
> it.
>
> "Upgrades" are often TRIVIAL CRAP so developers can claim
> "progress". Generally they make things WORSE. We've seen
> this with M$ - making their office apps ever more stupid.
>
> I'd strongly prefer a Win-98 look that simply, easily,
> exposes all options than some eye-candy monstrosity
> for "today". Linux should always be about "what works",
> not an attempt to emulate the latest idiocies of M$
> or Apple. There's no POINT in Linux otherwise.

You are our hero!

--
Alea iacta est

Am 24.07.23 um 04:42 schrieb 36J.256:
> Um ... no. I will lock-in the older version. No 'upgrades'.
> Will archive the current version so I can always re-install
> it.
>
> "Upgrades" are often TRIVIAL CRAP so developers can claim
> "progress". Generally they make things WORSE. We've seen
> this with M$ - making their office apps ever more stupid.
>
> I'd strongly prefer a Win-98 look that simply, easily,
> exposes all options than some eye-candy monstrosity
> for "today". Linux should always be about "what works",
> not an attempt to emulate the latest idiocies of M$
> or Apple. There's no POINT in Linux otherwise.

Thunderbird/78.13.0? Really?
On an Ubuntu 6 Dapper Drake?
You are ridiculous.

--
Alea iacta est