Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <uvu9nc$349b0$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:30:20 on Fri, 19 Apr
> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uvtrc8$311e8$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:25:28 on Fri, 19 Apr
>>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 05:02:16 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <uvsimb$2i28$1@gal.iecc.com>, at 01:51:07 on Fri, 19 Apr
>>>>>> 2024, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think TfL has any customer data on ccc users.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sure they do. I addd my US Amex card to my Oyster
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> CCC?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Contactless Credit Card - it's what TfL call the scheme.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> PS to Roland: some of us don't pay foreign transaction fees on our
>>>>>>>>> credit cards.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Some", a lucky few I suspect.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oddly, even though US cards have high fees in general, a lot of them
>>>>>>> don't have foreign transaction fees. HSBC and Capital One issue cards
>>>>>>> in the US and UK; their UK cards have foreign transaction fees but
>>>>>>> their US cards don't. Go figure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They could be completely different companies. When I last looked AMEX UK
>>>>>> was not the same organisation as AMEX USA, for example; they just use
>>>>>> the same branding.
>>>>>
>>>>> American Express Services Europe Limited is a wholly owned subsidiary of
>>>>> American Express Services Holdings Limited,
>>>>> with the American Express Company in New York as the ultimate parent.
>>>>>
>>>>> So it's definitely the same company. That doesn't mean American
>>>>> Express offers identical products in every country, of course.
>>>>
>>>> I imagine financial regulations require a local subsidiary.
>>>
>>> The companies are sufficiently different that you can't get them to
>>> issue a US-based card account as a replacement for a UK-based card
>>> account. I know, I've tried.
>>
>> Different regulatory regimes are likely to be at the root of that.
>
> No, it was all about credit checking, and with my permission (which I'd
> probably inadvertently given them earlier) they would be permitted to
> transfer that information.
>

Who would issue the US-based card? Amex UK wouldn't be authorised to do
so. You'd probably need a US Amex account to get a US card. Similarly, I
doubt that HSBC UK could offer me a Hong Kong credit card.

According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>> The companies are sufficiently different that you can't get them to
>>> issue a US-based card account as a replacement for a UK-based card
>>> account. I know, I've tried.
>>
>>Different regulatory regimes are likely to be at the root of that.
>
>No, it was all about credit checking, and with my permission (which I'd
>probably inadvertently given them earlier) they would be permitted to
>transfer that information.

They seem rather disorganized. A Canadian friend was able to transfer
his US Amex card to a Canadian card when he moved home, only when they
put the balance on the new Canadian card they failed to zero his US
card, leading to ever more angry letters as he didn't pay the balance
he didn't owe.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
>> No, it was all about credit checking, and with my permission (which I'd
>> probably inadvertently given them earlier) they would be permitted to
>> transfer that information.
>
>Who would issue the US-based card? Amex UK wouldn't be authorised to do
>so. You'd probably need a US Amex account to get a US card.

The theory and sometimes the practice is that the UK part of the
company will introduce you to the US part which will then issue a
card. I know it works between the US and Canada, but their bank
systems are intertwined a lot more than the US and UK.

>Similarly, I
>doubt that HSBC UK could offer me a Hong Kong credit card.

No, but HSBC's international units are linked well enough that if you
have an account on one country, they will open accounts in other
countries. Thats how I got Canadian and UK credit cards.

HSBC recently sold their Canadian bank to Royal Bank of Canada so now I
have an RBC credit card even though I have no Canadian credit history.

HSBC Jersey can arrange a European Amex card, billed in euros and paid
from your euro bank account. It said not available to US residents,
but I applied and they gave me one, sending the bills to me in New
York. I could see that Amex sort of knew that the person with the euro
card was the same as the person with the US card, but not to the
extent that I could get to them from the same online login.

About a decade later, they wrote a stern letter saying hey, we see you
live in the US so we're cancelling your card. Ah, well.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
>>> No, it was all about credit checking, and with my permission (which I'd
>>> probably inadvertently given them earlier) they would be permitted to
>>> transfer that information.
>>
>> Who would issue the US-based card? Amex UK wouldn't be authorised to do
>> so. You'd probably need a US Amex account to get a US card.
>
> The theory and sometimes the practice is that the UK part of the
> company will introduce you to the US part which will then issue a
> card. I know it works between the US and Canada, but their bank
> systems are intertwined a lot more than the US and UK.
>
>> Similarly, I
>> doubt that HSBC UK could offer me a Hong Kong credit card.
>
> No, but HSBC's international units are linked well enough that if you
> have an account on one country, they will open accounts in other
> countries. Thats how I got Canadian and UK credit cards.
>
> HSBC recently sold their Canadian bank to Royal Bank of Canada so now I
> have an RBC credit card even though I have no Canadian credit history.
>
> HSBC Jersey can arrange a European Amex card, billed in euros and paid
> from your euro bank account. It said not available to US residents,
> but I applied and they gave me one, sending the bills to me in New
> York. I could see that Amex sort of knew that the person with the euro
> card was the same as the person with the US card, but not to the
> extent that I could get to them from the same online login.
>
> About a decade later, they wrote a stern letter saying hey, we see you
> live in the US so we're cancelling your card. Ah, well.
>

I suppose that, these days, there are a lot more rules governing this sort
of thing, covering money laundering, tax evasion, illegal international
currency transfers, proceeds of crime, VAT fraud, etc. HSBC has been found
to be lax about such things in the past, and probably had to tighten up.
Nevertheless, London still has a reputation as one of the world's leading
money laundering centres.

In message <uvur7t$25ti$2@gal.iecc.com>, at 22:29:17 on Fri, 19 Apr
2024, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> remarked:
>According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
>>> No, it was all about credit checking, and with my permission (which I'd
>>> probably inadvertently given them earlier) they would be permitted to
>>> transfer that information.
>>
>>Who would issue the US-based card?

AMEX USA of course.

>>Amex UK wouldn't be authorised to do
>>so. You'd probably need a US Amex account to get a US card.

And that's what they refused to do (easily, anyway), completely denying
my 20+yrs back-story with AMEX UK.

>The theory and sometimes the practice is that the UK part of the
>company will introduce you to the US part which will then issue a
>card. I know it works between the US and Canada, but their bank
>systems are intertwined a lot more than the US and UK.

Yes, the USA is much more disconnected from Europe than a lot of people
imagine. (And not just the meme that most Americans couldn't point to
Europe on a map of the World). But until that bridge bash recently, I
wouldn't have been able to point to Baltimore on a US map. (Lots of
other places yes, but that's one I've never been to).

>>Similarly, I
>>doubt that HSBC UK could offer me a Hong Kong credit card.
>
>No, but HSBC's international units are linked well enough that if you
>have an account on one country, they will open accounts in other
>countries. Thats how I got Canadian and UK credit cards.
>
>HSBC recently sold their Canadian bank to Royal Bank of Canada so now I
>have an RBC credit card even though I have no Canadian credit history.
>
>HSBC Jersey can arrange a European Amex card, billed in euros and paid
>from your euro bank account. It said not available to US residents,
>but I applied and they gave me one, sending the bills to me in New
>York. I could see that Amex sort of knew that the person with the euro
>card was the same as the person with the US card, but not to the
>extent that I could get to them from the same online login.
>
>About a decade later, they wrote a stern letter saying hey, we see you
>live in the US so we're cancelling your card. Ah, well.

That was precisely the sort of thing I was trying to avoid.
--
Roland Perry

On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 10:44:25 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

>In message <uvur7t$25ti$2@gal.iecc.com>, at 22:29:17 on Fri, 19 Apr
>2024, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> remarked:
>>According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
>>>> No, it was all about credit checking, and with my permission (which I'd
>>>> probably inadvertently given them earlier) they would be permitted to
>>>> transfer that information.
>>>
>>>Who would issue the US-based card?
>
>AMEX USA of course.
>
>>>Amex UK wouldn't be authorised to do
>>>so. You'd probably need a US Amex account to get a US card.
>
>And that's what they refused to do (easily, anyway), completely denying
>my 20+yrs back-story with AMEX UK.

I believe that something similar happens if you move to another country, and try to open an account or a credit card
with the local branch of your existing bank. Even though you may have a perfect credit record with your existing
accounts, they won't take that into account.

According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
>>>>Amex UK wouldn't be authorised to do
>>>>so. You'd probably need a US Amex account to get a US card.
>>
>>And that's what they refused to do (easily, anyway), completely denying
>>my 20+yrs back-story with AMEX UK.
>
>I believe that something similar happens if you move to another country, and try to open an account or a credit card
>with the local branch of your existing bank. Even though you may have a perfect credit record with your existing
>accounts, they won't take that into account.

It entirely depends on the bank. HSBC is set up to port accounts
between countries (at least for the fancy Premier accounts), other
banks no so much.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

In message <v00p7r$1obl$1@gal.iecc.com>, at 16:07:23 on Sat, 20 Apr
2024, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> remarked:
>>>>>Amex UK wouldn't be authorised to do
>>>>>so. You'd probably need a US Amex account to get a US card.
>>>
>>>And that's what they refused to do (easily, anyway), completely denying
>>>my 20+yrs back-story with AMEX UK.
>>
>>I believe that something similar happens if you move to another country, and try to open an account or a credit card
>>with the local branch of your existing bank. Even though you may have a perfect credit record with your existing
>>accounts, they won't take that into account.
>
>It entirely depends on the bank. HSBC is set up to port accounts
>between countries (at least for the fancy Premier accounts), other
>banks no so much.

As far as I was concerned from their image at the time what I had was
"An AMEX account" and all I wanted was to change the address to USA. But
no, they said "we are completely different companies, so we can't".
--
Roland Perry