I have two discussion points about this:

1. My Oyster card is linked with my Senior Railcard to give me
one-third off my journeys (presumably not on buses). The TfL website
is encouraging customers with first generation cards (as I have) to
upgrade to a newer version. I asked if the link would be transferred
automatically. I was told it would not and I would need to have the
two cards linked at a tube station. My concerns are: (a) with no
ticket offices can I be confident this can be done and (b) does this
opportunity still exist? Should I refuse a new card as I cannot see
what benefit it confers?

2. Is TfL deliberately misleading customers by not publicising this?
When I was in London at the weekend, I saw signs saying that the cost
of a ticket is the same whether Oyster or contactless payment is used.
As far as I can see, this is not true for holders of a National
Railcard. I asked if a Railcard can be linked with a Barclaycard and
was told it cannot. By promoting contactless payment, without making
it clear this could cost more through loss of a discount, is TfL in
breach of either advertising standards or consumer protection rules?

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> I have two discussion points about this:
>
> 1. My Oyster card is linked with my Senior Railcard to give me
> one-third off my journeys (presumably not on buses). The TfL website
> is encouraging customers with first generation cards (as I have) to
> upgrade to a newer version. I asked if the link would be transferred
> automatically. I was told it would not and I would need to have the
> two cards linked at a tube station. My concerns are: (a) with no
> ticket offices can I be confident this can be done and (b) does this
> opportunity still exist? Should I refuse a new card as I cannot see
> what benefit it confers?
>

When I did that on two separate occasions with the cards my wife and I held
it straightforward enough. Sent away for the new cards and they arrived
fairly quickly . The next visit to London
it was just me travelling so I only took one card . My London terminal
station is Waterloo so I did not attempt to have the card linked there,
just didn’t fancy wandering around a busy station looking like a tourist to
pickpockets etc but at the much quieter destination station the station
operative was very quick and polite to do the linking, they take you to one
of the Oyster top up terminals to do it.
Repeat performance with the wife card a few weeks later. Might not be so
efficient if you rock up say Finsbury Park when Arsenal are going to and
from a Home match.

> 2. Is TfL deliberately misleading customers by not publicising this?
> When I was in London at the weekend, I saw signs saying that the cost
> of a ticket is the same whether Oyster or contactless payment is used.
Yes , without the Link
> As far as I can see, this is not true for holders of a National
> Railcard. I asked if a Railcard can be linked with a Barclaycard and
> was told it cannot. By promoting contactless payment, without making
> it clear this could cost more through loss of a discount, is TfL in
> breach of either advertising standards or consumer protection rules?
>
Doubt it, if you want the discount use Oyster. Its one of the little
remaining advantage of using one, another is being able to lend an Oyster
(without a railcard attached ) to someone else like a visitor from abroad .
I suppose you could lend them your bankcard but it would be unwise.

GH

In message <l8b1frFsndbU1@mid.individual.net>, at 22:40:59 on Wed, 17
Apr 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:

>> 2. Is TfL deliberately misleading customers by not publicising this?
>> When I was in London at the weekend, I saw signs saying that the cost
>> of a ticket is the same whether Oyster or contactless payment is used.

>Yes , without the Link

>> As far as I can see, this is not true for holders of a National
>> Railcard. I asked if a Railcard can be linked with a Barclaycard and
>> was told it cannot. By promoting contactless payment, without making
>> it clear this could cost more through loss of a discount, is TfL in
>> breach of either advertising standards or consumer protection rules?
>>
>Doubt it,

There are sufficient consumer advocates permanently on TfL's tail I
don't think could get away with.

>if you want the discount use Oyster. Its one of the little
>remaining advantage of using one, another is being able to lend an Oyster
>(without a railcard attached ) to someone else like a visitor from abroad .
>I suppose you could lend them your bankcard but it would be unwise.

I have a couple of pre-pay cards I use for this, hence my interest in
finding pre-pay cards which support contactless. Until very recently
they were hard to find.

But nowadays it's hard to find an international traveller who has
neither a phone nor their own bank card.
--
Roland Perry

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> I have two discussion points about this:
>
> 1. My Oyster card is linked with my Senior Railcard to give me
> one-third off my journeys (presumably not on buses). The TfL website
> is encouraging customers with first generation cards (as I have) to
> upgrade to a newer version. I asked if the link would be transferred
> automatically. I was told it would not and I would need to have the
> two cards linked at a tube station. My concerns are: (a) with no
> ticket offices can I be confident this can be done and (b) does this
> opportunity still exist? Should I refuse a new card as I cannot see
> what benefit it confers?
>
> 2. Is TfL deliberately misleading customers by not publicising this?
> When I was in London at the weekend, I saw signs saying that the cost
> of a ticket is the same whether Oyster or contactless payment is used.
> As far as I can see, this is not true for holders of a National
> Railcard. I asked if a Railcard can be linked with a Barclaycard and
> was told it cannot. By promoting contactless payment, without making
> it clear this could cost more through loss of a discount, is TfL in
> breach of either advertising standards or consumer protection rules?
>

I think TfL is simply trying to tell non-Oyster card holders that they can
benefit from Oyster fares without needing to get an Oyster card. Many
visitors find Oyster confusing, and wonder how much money to load on to
their cards. Just using an existing bank card makes this easier for them.

On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 08:44:26 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> I have two discussion points about this:
>>
>> 1. My Oyster card is linked with my Senior Railcard to give me
>> one-third off my journeys (presumably not on buses). The TfL website
>> is encouraging customers with first generation cards (as I have) to
>> upgrade to a newer version. I asked if the link would be transferred
>> automatically. I was told it would not and I would need to have the
>> two cards linked at a tube station. My concerns are: (a) with no
>> ticket offices can I be confident this can be done and (b) does this
>> opportunity still exist? Should I refuse a new card as I cannot see
>> what benefit it confers?
>>
>> 2. Is TfL deliberately misleading customers by not publicising this?
>> When I was in London at the weekend, I saw signs saying that the cost
>> of a ticket is the same whether Oyster or contactless payment is used.
>> As far as I can see, this is not true for holders of a National
>> Railcard. I asked if a Railcard can be linked with a Barclaycard and
>> was told it cannot. By promoting contactless payment, without making
>> it clear this could cost more through loss of a discount, is TfL in
>> breach of either advertising standards or consumer protection rules?
>>
>I think TfL is simply trying to tell non-Oyster card holders that they can
>benefit from Oyster fares without needing to get an Oyster card. Many
>visitors find Oyster confusing, and wonder how much money to load on to
>their cards. Just using an existing bank card makes this easier for them.

TfL must be holding data about the individual to apply the daily price
cap. Is there anything to prevent creation of a link between the
Senior Railcard and the customer data so the appropriate discount can
be applied?

In message <K35UN.75812$Rt2.74846@fx10.ams1>, at 08:44:26 on Thu, 18 Apr
2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> I have two discussion points about this:
>>
>> 1. My Oyster card is linked with my Senior Railcard to give me
>> one-third off my journeys (presumably not on buses). The TfL website
>> is encouraging customers with first generation cards (as I have) to
>> upgrade to a newer version. I asked if the link would be transferred
>> automatically. I was told it would not and I would need to have the
>> two cards linked at a tube station. My concerns are: (a) with no
>> ticket offices can I be confident this can be done and (b) does this
>> opportunity still exist? Should I refuse a new card as I cannot see
>> what benefit it confers?
>>
>> 2. Is TfL deliberately misleading customers by not publicising this?
>> When I was in London at the weekend, I saw signs saying that the cost
>> of a ticket is the same whether Oyster or contactless payment is used.
>> As far as I can see, this is not true for holders of a National
>> Railcard. I asked if a Railcard can be linked with a Barclaycard and
>> was told it cannot. By promoting contactless payment, without making
>> it clear this could cost more through loss of a discount, is TfL in
>> breach of either advertising standards or consumer protection rules?
>
>I think TfL is simply trying to tell non-Oyster card holders that they can
>benefit from Oyster fares without needing to get an Oyster card. Many
>visitors find Oyster confusing, and wonder how much money to load on to
>their cards. Just using an existing bank card makes this easier for them.

Unless there are children involved, when they need to get Oysters.

CCC also has a Mon-Sun cap, although that probably doesn't help many
visitors, who might find it better to get a paper 7-day Travelcard.

Overseas visitors will get card "foreign transaction" charges added
every day they travel, whereas if they use Oyster it'll only be every
time they top up.

CCC has a bigger operational area than Oyster (but famously not yet as
far as Stansted Airport, even though it's been proposed for years). Last
week I saw posters on the platform at Stevenage telling passengers that
was as far as CCC went up the ECML, but I don't expect many passengers
see them, or get off the train to touch out, then buy a paper ticket for
onward travel. You'd think they would have done all of Thameslink by
now. And it's a still-broken franchise commitment (ten years ago this
September) of GN to roll out card payment "across our whole network".
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 10:35:44 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 08:44:26 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I have two discussion points about this:
>>>
>>> 1. My Oyster card is linked with my Senior Railcard to give me
>>> one-third off my journeys (presumably not on buses). The TfL website
>>> is encouraging customers with first generation cards (as I have) to
>>> upgrade to a newer version. I asked if the link would be transferred
>>> automatically. I was told it would not and I would need to have the
>>> two cards linked at a tube station. My concerns are: (a) with no
>>> ticket offices can I be confident this can be done and (b) does this
>>> opportunity still exist? Should I refuse a new card as I cannot see
>>> what benefit it confers?
>>>
>>> 2. Is TfL deliberately misleading customers by not publicising this?
>>> When I was in London at the weekend, I saw signs saying that the cost
>>> of a ticket is the same whether Oyster or contactless payment is used.
>>> As far as I can see, this is not true for holders of a National
>>> Railcard. I asked if a Railcard can be linked with a Barclaycard and
>>> was told it cannot. By promoting contactless payment, without making
>>> it clear this could cost more through loss of a discount, is TfL in
>>> breach of either advertising standards or consumer protection rules?
>>>
>>I think TfL is simply trying to tell non-Oyster card holders that they can
>>benefit from Oyster fares without needing to get an Oyster card. Many
>>visitors find Oyster confusing, and wonder how much money to load on to
>>their cards. Just using an existing bank card makes this easier for them.
>
>TfL must be holding data about the individual to apply the daily price
>cap.

Why would it need to do that? It just knows that there have been a list of journeys that day (or week) using that card.
It can calculate the total and see if it's more or less than the applicable cap, billing the lower figure to the card.
It knows no more than any other vendor that accepts ccc.

> Is there anything to prevent creation of a link between the
>Senior Railcard and the customer data so the appropriate discount can
>be applied?

I don't think TfL has any customer data on ccc users.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 10:35:44 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 08:44:26 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> I have two discussion points about this:
>>>>
>>>> 1. My Oyster card is linked with my Senior Railcard to give me
>>>> one-third off my journeys (presumably not on buses). The TfL website
>>>> is encouraging customers with first generation cards (as I have) to
>>>> upgrade to a newer version. I asked if the link would be transferred
>>>> automatically. I was told it would not and I would need to have the
>>>> two cards linked at a tube station. My concerns are: (a) with no
>>>> ticket offices can I be confident this can be done and (b) does this
>>>> opportunity still exist? Should I refuse a new card as I cannot see
>>>> what benefit it confers?
>>>>
>>>> 2. Is TfL deliberately misleading customers by not publicising this?
>>>> When I was in London at the weekend, I saw signs saying that the cost
>>>> of a ticket is the same whether Oyster or contactless payment is used.
>>>> As far as I can see, this is not true for holders of a National
>>>> Railcard. I asked if a Railcard can be linked with a Barclaycard and
>>>> was told it cannot. By promoting contactless payment, without making
>>>> it clear this could cost more through loss of a discount, is TfL in
>>>> breach of either advertising standards or consumer protection rules?
>>>>
>>> I think TfL is simply trying to tell non-Oyster card holders that they can
>>> benefit from Oyster fares without needing to get an Oyster card. Many
>>> visitors find Oyster confusing, and wonder how much money to load on to
>>> their cards. Just using an existing bank card makes this easier for them.
>>
>> TfL must be holding data about the individual to apply the daily price
>> cap.
>
> Why would it need to do that? It just knows that there have been a list
> of journeys that day (or week) using that card.
> It can calculate the total and see if it's more or less than the
> applicable cap, billing the lower figure to the card.
> It knows no more than any other vendor that accepts ccc.
>
>> Is there anything to prevent creation of a link between the
>> Senior Railcard and the customer data so the appropriate discount can
>> be applied?
>
> I don't think TfL has any customer data on ccc users.
>

It does if you create an account and link your credit card to that account,
doesn’t it?
As I understand it, Project Oval phase 2 is supposed to deal with this
issue. Probably not until 2025.

On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 10:28:54 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 10:35:44 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 08:44:26 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> I have two discussion points about this:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. My Oyster card is linked with my Senior Railcard to give me
>>>>> one-third off my journeys (presumably not on buses). The TfL website
>>>>> is encouraging customers with first generation cards (as I have) to
>>>>> upgrade to a newer version. I asked if the link would be transferred
>>>>> automatically. I was told it would not and I would need to have the
>>>>> two cards linked at a tube station. My concerns are: (a) with no
>>>>> ticket offices can I be confident this can be done and (b) does this
>>>>> opportunity still exist? Should I refuse a new card as I cannot see
>>>>> what benefit it confers?
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Is TfL deliberately misleading customers by not publicising this?
>>>>> When I was in London at the weekend, I saw signs saying that the cost
>>>>> of a ticket is the same whether Oyster or contactless payment is used.
>>>>> As far as I can see, this is not true for holders of a National
>>>>> Railcard. I asked if a Railcard can be linked with a Barclaycard and
>>>>> was told it cannot. By promoting contactless payment, without making
>>>>> it clear this could cost more through loss of a discount, is TfL in
>>>>> breach of either advertising standards or consumer protection rules?
>>>>>
>>>> I think TfL is simply trying to tell non-Oyster card holders that they can
>>>> benefit from Oyster fares without needing to get an Oyster card. Many
>>>> visitors find Oyster confusing, and wonder how much money to load on to
>>>> their cards. Just using an existing bank card makes this easier for them.
>>>
>>> TfL must be holding data about the individual to apply the daily price
>>> cap.
>>
>> Why would it need to do that? It just knows that there have been a list
>> of journeys that day (or week) using that card.
>> It can calculate the total and see if it's more or less than the
>> applicable cap, billing the lower figure to the card.
>> It knows no more than any other vendor that accepts ccc.
>>
>>> Is there anything to prevent creation of a link between the
>>> Senior Railcard and the customer data so the appropriate discount can
>>> be applied?
>>
>> I don't think TfL has any customer data on ccc users.
>>
>
>It does if you create an account and link your credit card to that account,
>doesn’t it?

Yes, that's something you can choose to do, but it's not mandatory. It lets you do lots of useful stuff, so regular
users would probably want to register.

>As I understand it, Project Oval phase 2 is supposed to deal with this
>issue. Probably not until 2025.

I guess so.

According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
>> Is there anything to prevent creation of a link between the
>>Senior Railcard and the customer data so the appropriate discount can
>>be applied?
>
>I don't think TfL has any customer data on ccc users.

Sure they do. I addd my US Amex card to my Oyster account and it shows
the journeys the same as for my Oyster. It's pretty useless since my
Oyster has the railcard discount, but they clearly have all the bits,
and they just need to knit them together.

This is one of the few places where the New York MTA is ahead of TfL.
That same Amex card is on my OMNY account with a senior discount, no
dedicated card needed.

PS to Roland: some of us don't pay foreign transaction fees on our credit cards.
--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
>>> Is there anything to prevent creation of a link between the
>>> Senior Railcard and the customer data so the appropriate discount can
>>> be applied?
>>
>> I don't think TfL has any customer data on ccc users.
>
> Sure they do. I addd my US Amex card to my Oyster account

It has the details from your Oyster account. But you can use a ccc without
adding it to an account, in which case TfL knows very little about you.

> and it shows
> the journeys the same as for my Oyster. It's pretty useless since my
> Oyster has the railcard discount, but they clearly have all the bits,
> and they just need to knit them together.
>
> This is one of the few places where the New York MTA is ahead of TfL.
> That same Amex card is on my OMNY account with a senior discount, no
> dedicated card needed.

In London, you'd travel free.

>
> PS to Roland: some of us don't pay foreign transaction fees on our credit cards.

In message <uvr4kl$4gs$1@gal.iecc.com>, at 12:45:09 on Thu, 18 Apr 2024,
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> remarked:
>According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
>>> Is there anything to prevent creation of a link between the
>>>Senior Railcard and the customer data so the appropriate discount can
>>>be applied?
>>
>>I don't think TfL has any customer data on ccc users.
>
>Sure they do. I addd my US Amex card to my Oyster

CCC?

>account and it shows the journeys the same as for my Oyster. It's
>pretty useless since my Oyster has the railcard discount, but they
>clearly have all the bits, and they just need to knit them together.
>
>This is one of the few places where the New York MTA is ahead of TfL.
>That same Amex card is on my OMNY account with a senior discount, no
>dedicated card needed.
>
>PS to Roland: some of us don't pay foreign transaction fees on our
>credit cards.

"Some", a lucky few I suspect.
--
Roland Perry

In message <Dw9UN.75855$Rt2.55842@fx10.ams1>, at 13:48:19 on Thu, 18 Apr
2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>> According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
>>>> Is there anything to prevent creation of a link between the
>>>> Senior Railcard and the customer data so the appropriate discount can
>>>> be applied?
>>>
>>> I don't think TfL has any customer data on ccc users.
>>
>> Sure they do. I addd my US Amex card to my Oyster account
>
>It has the details from your Oyster account. But you can use a ccc without
>adding it to an account, in which case TfL knows very little about you.

You *can* yes, but lots of people choose to have accounts. At which
point there's no excuse for TfL to prevaricate.

>> and it shows
>> the journeys the same as for my Oyster. It's pretty useless since my
>> Oyster has the railcard discount, but they clearly have all the bits,
>> and they just need to knit them together.
>>
>> This is one of the few places where the New York MTA is ahead of TfL.
>> That same Amex card is on my OMNY account with a senior discount, no
>> dedicated card needed.
>
>In London, you'd travel free.

Only if he lived in London. (I have no idea if he lives in "the right
bit of" New York).

>> PS to Roland: some of us don't pay foreign transaction fees on our
>>credit cards.

--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 20:44:10 +0100, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>I have two discussion points about this:
>
>1. My Oyster card is linked with my Senior Railcard to give me
>one-third off my journeys (presumably not on buses). The TfL website
>is encouraging customers with first generation cards (as I have) to
>upgrade to a newer version. I asked if the link would be transferred
>automatically. I was told it would not and I would need to have the
>two cards linked at a tube station. My concerns are: (a) with no
>ticket offices can I be confident this can be done and (b) does this
>opportunity still exist? Should I refuse a new card as I cannot see
>what benefit it confers?
>
The physical ticket offices still exist, they just don't sell you a
ticket any more. Stations with TfL ticket machines (not just tube
stations) are usually staffed during the day and into the evening,
maybe even to closing time. If there is someone on duty then they come
out and do the necessary extra button-touching on the normal ticket
machine, they have to see the Railcard and input the appropriate
verification.
<snip>

According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>> This is one of the few places where the New York MTA is ahead of TfL.
>>> That same Amex card is on my OMNY account with a senior discount, no
>>> dedicated card needed.
>>
>>In London, you'd travel free.
>
>Only if he lived in London. (I have no idea if he lives in "the right
>bit of" New York).

I live in upstate NY, about 200 miles from New York City. (This does
not prevent geographically challenged city dwellers from inviting me
to come by for lunch.) But it doesn't matter. Anyone who is over 65
or disabled is eligible for reduced fares. They also have a low-income
reduction that is limited to city residents.

It's common in North America to allow senior fares regardless of where
you live. I have reduced fare cards from Philadelphia, Washington DC,
Atlanta, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, and Vancouver, too. Some
of them I got online, for some you walk in and pick them up. In
Philadelphia they made me a photocard on the spot, for free since the
senior fare on nearly all lines is zero, which I thought was pretty
spiffy.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>>> This is one of the few places where the New York MTA is ahead of TfL.
>>>> That same Amex card is on my OMNY account with a senior discount, no
>>>> dedicated card needed.
>>>
>>> In London, you'd travel free.
>>
>> Only if he lived in London. (I have no idea if he lives in "the right
>> bit of" New York).
>
> I live in upstate NY, about 200 miles from New York City. (This does
> not prevent geographically challenged city dwellers from inviting me
> to come by for lunch.) But it doesn't matter. Anyone who is over 65
> or disabled is eligible for reduced fares. They also have a low-income
> reduction that is limited to city residents.
>
> It's common in North America to allow senior fares regardless of where
> you live. I have reduced fare cards from Philadelphia, Washington DC,
> Atlanta, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, and Vancouver, too. Some
> of them I got online, for some you walk in and pick them up. In
> Philadelphia they made me a photocard on the spot, for free since the
> senior fare on nearly all lines is zero, which I thought was pretty
> spiffy.
>

I was recently in Genoa, where locals get free travel on the buses and
Metro, as do all seniors, but you need to pre-order the photo card. Perhaps
because most passengers are legitimately travelling free, they don't seem
to bother to do many ticket checks (I saw none).

According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>>I don't think TfL has any customer data on ccc users.
>>
>>Sure they do. I addd my US Amex card to my Oyster
>
>CCC?

Huh?

>>PS to Roland: some of us don't pay foreign transaction fees on our
>>credit cards.
>
>"Some", a lucky few I suspect.

Oddly, even though US cards have high fees in general, a lot of them
don't have foreign transaction fees. HSBC and Capital One issue cards
in the US and UK; their UK cards have foreign transaction fees but
their US cards don't. Go figure.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

In message <uvsimb$2i28$1@gal.iecc.com>, at 01:51:07 on Fri, 19 Apr
2024, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> remarked:
>According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>>>I don't think TfL has any customer data on ccc users.
>>>
>>>Sure they do. I addd my US Amex card to my Oyster
>>
>>CCC?
>
>Huh?

Contactless Credit Card - it's what TfL call the scheme.

>>>PS to Roland: some of us don't pay foreign transaction fees on our
>>>credit cards.
>>
>>"Some", a lucky few I suspect.
>
>Oddly, even though US cards have high fees in general, a lot of them
>don't have foreign transaction fees. HSBC and Capital One issue cards
>in the US and UK; their UK cards have foreign transaction fees but
>their US cards don't. Go figure.

They could be completely different companies. When I last looked AMEX UK
was not the same organisation as AMEX USA, for example; they just use
the same branding.
--
Roland Perry

In message <uvs7er$1p8d$1@gal.iecc.com>, at 22:39:23 on Thu, 18 Apr
2024, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> remarked:
>According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>>> This is one of the few places where the New York MTA is ahead of TfL.
>>>> That same Amex card is on my OMNY account with a senior discount, no
>>>> dedicated card needed.
>>>
>>>In London, you'd travel free.
>>
>>Only if he lived in London. (I have no idea if he lives in "the right
>>bit of" New York).
>
>I live in upstate NY, about 200 miles from New York City. (This does
>not prevent geographically challenged city dwellers from inviting me
>to come by for lunch.) But it doesn't matter. Anyone who is over 65
>or disabled is eligible for reduced fares. They also have a low-income
>reduction that is limited to city residents.

I was trying to determine if you lived close enough to be classified as
a "City Resident", but it seems not.

>It's common in North America to allow senior fares regardless of where
>you live. I have reduced fare cards from Philadelphia, Washington DC,
>Atlanta, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, and Vancouver, too. Some
>of them I got online, for some you walk in and pick them up. In
>Philadelphia they made me a photocard on the spot, for free since the
>senior fare on nearly all lines is zero, which I thought was pretty
>spiffy.

Sadly the senior fares for London are only 1/3 off, and only after
9.30am, and not between 4pm and 7pm. They really want their pound of
flesh!

The card isn't free either - it's £30/yr.

Oldies who pay property tax in London get free travel (it's basically an
election bribe).
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 05:02:16 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

>In message <uvsimb$2i28$1@gal.iecc.com>, at 01:51:07 on Fri, 19 Apr
>2024, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> remarked:
>>According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>>>>I don't think TfL has any customer data on ccc users.
>>>>
>>>>Sure they do. I addd my US Amex card to my Oyster
>>>
>>>CCC?
>>
>>Huh?
>
>Contactless Credit Card - it's what TfL call the scheme.
>
>>>>PS to Roland: some of us don't pay foreign transaction fees on our
>>>>credit cards.
>>>
>>>"Some", a lucky few I suspect.
>>
>>Oddly, even though US cards have high fees in general, a lot of them
>>don't have foreign transaction fees. HSBC and Capital One issue cards
>>in the US and UK; their UK cards have foreign transaction fees but
>>their US cards don't. Go figure.
>
>They could be completely different companies. When I last looked AMEX UK
>was not the same organisation as AMEX USA, for example; they just use
>the same branding.

American Express Services Europe Limited is a wholly owned subsidiary of American Express Services Holdings Limited,
with the American Express Company in New York as the ultimate parent.

So it's definitely the same company. That doesn't mean American Express offers identical products in every country, of
course.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 05:02:16 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <uvsimb$2i28$1@gal.iecc.com>, at 01:51:07 on Fri, 19 Apr
>> 2024, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> remarked:
>>> According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>>>>> I don't think TfL has any customer data on ccc users.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure they do. I addd my US Amex card to my Oyster
>>>>
>>>> CCC?
>>>
>>> Huh?
>>
>> Contactless Credit Card - it's what TfL call the scheme.
>>
>>>>> PS to Roland: some of us don't pay foreign transaction fees on our
>>>>> credit cards.
>>>>
>>>> "Some", a lucky few I suspect.
>>>
>>> Oddly, even though US cards have high fees in general, a lot of them
>>> don't have foreign transaction fees. HSBC and Capital One issue cards
>>> in the US and UK; their UK cards have foreign transaction fees but
>>> their US cards don't. Go figure.
>>
>> They could be completely different companies. When I last looked AMEX UK
>> was not the same organisation as AMEX USA, for example; they just use
>> the same branding.
>
> American Express Services Europe Limited is a wholly owned subsidiary of
> American Express Services Holdings Limited,
> with the American Express Company in New York as the ultimate parent.
>
> So it's definitely the same company. That doesn't mean American Express
> offers identical products in every country, of
> course.
>

I imagine financial regulations require a local subsidiary.

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 05:02:16 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <uvsimb$2i28$1@gal.iecc.com>, at 01:51:07 on Fri, 19 Apr
>>> 2024, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> remarked:
>>>> According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>>>>>> I don't think TfL has any customer data on ccc users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure they do. I addd my US Amex card to my Oyster
>>>>>
>>>>> CCC?
>>>>
>>>> Huh?
>>>
>>> Contactless Credit Card - it's what TfL call the scheme.
>>>
>>>>>> PS to Roland: some of us don't pay foreign transaction fees on our
>>>>>> credit cards.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Some", a lucky few I suspect.
>>>>
>>>> Oddly, even though US cards have high fees in general, a lot of them
>>>> don't have foreign transaction fees. HSBC and Capital One issue cards
>>>> in the US and UK; their UK cards have foreign transaction fees but
>>>> their US cards don't. Go figure.
>>>
>>> They could be completely different companies. When I last looked AMEX UK
>>> was not the same organisation as AMEX USA, for example; they just use
>>> the same branding.
>>
>> American Express Services Europe Limited is a wholly owned subsidiary of
>> American Express Services Holdings Limited,
>> with the American Express Company in New York as the ultimate parent.
>>
>> So it's definitely the same company. That doesn't mean American Express
>> offers identical products in every country, of
>> course.
>>
>
> I imagine financial regulations require a local subsidiary.

Yes, I think so. Even non-financial companies normally do that.

In message <uvtrc8$311e8$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:25:28 on Fri, 19 Apr
2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 05:02:16 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <uvsimb$2i28$1@gal.iecc.com>, at 01:51:07 on Fri, 19 Apr
>>> 2024, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> remarked:
>>>> According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>>>>>> I don't think TfL has any customer data on ccc users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure they do. I addd my US Amex card to my Oyster
>>>>>
>>>>> CCC?
>>>>
>>>> Huh?
>>>
>>> Contactless Credit Card - it's what TfL call the scheme.
>>>
>>>>>> PS to Roland: some of us don't pay foreign transaction fees on our
>>>>>> credit cards.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Some", a lucky few I suspect.
>>>>
>>>> Oddly, even though US cards have high fees in general, a lot of them
>>>> don't have foreign transaction fees. HSBC and Capital One issue cards
>>>> in the US and UK; their UK cards have foreign transaction fees but
>>>> their US cards don't. Go figure.
>>>
>>> They could be completely different companies. When I last looked AMEX UK
>>> was not the same organisation as AMEX USA, for example; they just use
>>> the same branding.
>>
>> American Express Services Europe Limited is a wholly owned subsidiary of
>> American Express Services Holdings Limited,
>> with the American Express Company in New York as the ultimate parent.
>>
>> So it's definitely the same company. That doesn't mean American
>>Express offers identical products in every country, of course.
>
>I imagine financial regulations require a local subsidiary.

The companies are sufficiently different that you can't get them to
issue a US-based card account as a replacement for a UK-based card
account. I know, I've tried.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <uvtrc8$311e8$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:25:28 on Fri, 19 Apr
> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 05:02:16 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <uvsimb$2i28$1@gal.iecc.com>, at 01:51:07 on Fri, 19 Apr
>>>> 2024, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> remarked:
>>>>> According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>>>>>>> I don't think TfL has any customer data on ccc users.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sure they do. I addd my US Amex card to my Oyster
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CCC?
>>>>>
>>>>> Huh?
>>>>
>>>> Contactless Credit Card - it's what TfL call the scheme.
>>>>
>>>>>>> PS to Roland: some of us don't pay foreign transaction fees on our
>>>>>>> credit cards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Some", a lucky few I suspect.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oddly, even though US cards have high fees in general, a lot of them
>>>>> don't have foreign transaction fees. HSBC and Capital One issue cards
>>>>> in the US and UK; their UK cards have foreign transaction fees but
>>>>> their US cards don't. Go figure.
>>>>
>>>> They could be completely different companies. When I last looked AMEX UK
>>>> was not the same organisation as AMEX USA, for example; they just use
>>>> the same branding.
>>>
>>> American Express Services Europe Limited is a wholly owned subsidiary of
>>> American Express Services Holdings Limited,
>>> with the American Express Company in New York as the ultimate parent.
>>>
>>> So it's definitely the same company. That doesn't mean American
>>> Express offers identical products in every country, of course.
>>
>> I imagine financial regulations require a local subsidiary.
>
> The companies are sufficiently different that you can't get them to
> issue a US-based card account as a replacement for a UK-based card
> account. I know, I've tried.

Different regulatory regimes are likely to be at the root of that.

In message <uvu9nc$349b0$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:30:20 on Fri, 19 Apr
2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uvtrc8$311e8$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:25:28 on Fri, 19 Apr
>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 05:02:16 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <uvsimb$2i28$1@gal.iecc.com>, at 01:51:07 on Fri, 19 Apr
>>>>> 2024, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> remarked:
>>>>>> According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>>>>>>>> I don't think TfL has any customer data on ccc users.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sure they do. I addd my US Amex card to my Oyster
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> CCC?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>
>>>>> Contactless Credit Card - it's what TfL call the scheme.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> PS to Roland: some of us don't pay foreign transaction fees on our
>>>>>>>> credit cards.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Some", a lucky few I suspect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oddly, even though US cards have high fees in general, a lot of them
>>>>>> don't have foreign transaction fees. HSBC and Capital One issue cards
>>>>>> in the US and UK; their UK cards have foreign transaction fees but
>>>>>> their US cards don't. Go figure.
>>>>>
>>>>> They could be completely different companies. When I last looked AMEX UK
>>>>> was not the same organisation as AMEX USA, for example; they just use
>>>>> the same branding.
>>>>
>>>> American Express Services Europe Limited is a wholly owned subsidiary of
>>>> American Express Services Holdings Limited,
>>>> with the American Express Company in New York as the ultimate parent.
>>>>
>>>> So it's definitely the same company. That doesn't mean American
>>>> Express offers identical products in every country, of course.
>>>
>>> I imagine financial regulations require a local subsidiary.
>>
>> The companies are sufficiently different that you can't get them to
>> issue a US-based card account as a replacement for a UK-based card
>> account. I know, I've tried.
>
>Different regulatory regimes are likely to be at the root of that.

No, it was all about credit checking, and with my permission (which I'd
probably inadvertently given them earlier) they would be permitted to
transfer that information.

--
Roland Perry