AnthonyL <nospam@please.invalid> wrote:
> On 12 Apr 2024 13:40:28 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Just a muse really.
>> As the contributors to this group are mainly in he senior age bracket they
>> will have seen parts of Railway operation that have long past into history
>> .
>
>
> As young teenagers my friend and I often cycled from the LMS/LNER
> region to Newark and sit trackside. (Yes, flattened pennies etc).
>
> On one occasion we were looking up the track and saw this weird thing
> coming down (Southbound), blue, and couldn't work out what it was
> until my older friend shouted "Deltic". It would have been DP1 in the
> early 60s I guess.
>

I saw the Deltic at a distance at quite a young age from the unlikely
setting of my fathers room where he was dying from Cancer, at Hammersmith
Hospital . I don’t how the building of the late 1950’s compares to what is
there now but presumably we were on a fairly high floor with a northerly
outlook
and it was running on the LMR out Euston . Father spent some of his time
observing passing trains on the GWR route and the LMR line a little further
beyond and he got to know when to look out for it.
Even today with a Sports ground ,Wormwood Scrubs and a cemetery between
the Hospital and the Euston route near Kensal Green it may still be
possible to get a view of the route, its just under a mile away.

GH

On 13/04/2024 19:40, Marland wrote:
> AnthonyL <nospam@please.invalid> wrote:
>> On 12 Apr 2024 13:40:28 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Just a muse really.
>>> As the contributors to this group are mainly in he senior age bracket they
>>> will have seen parts of Railway operation that have long past into history
>>> .
>>
>>
>> As young teenagers my friend and I often cycled from the LMS/LNER
>> region to Newark and sit trackside. (Yes, flattened pennies etc).
>>
>> On one occasion we were looking up the track and saw this weird thing
>> coming down (Southbound), blue, and couldn't work out what it was
>> until my older friend shouted "Deltic". It would have been DP1 in the
>> early 60s I guess.
>>
>
> I saw the Deltic at a distance at quite a young age from the unlikely
> setting of my fathers room where he was dying from Cancer, at Hammersmith
> Hospital . I don’t how the building of the late 1950’s compares to what is
> there now but presumably we were on a fairly high floor with a northerly
> outlook
> and it was running on the LMR out Euston . Father spent some of his time
> observing passing trains on the GWR route and the LMR line a little further
> beyond and he got to know when to look out for it.
> Even today with a Sports ground ,Wormwood Scrubs and a cemetery between
> the Hospital and the Euston route near Kensal Green it may still be
> possible to get a view of the route, its just under a mile away.
>
> GH

I first saw the Deltic prototype whilst riding on the top deck of a
trolleybus. Part of the line between Thatto Heath and Eccleston Park
(Huyton to St. Helens & Wigan line) was then visible from a nearby road,
and Deltic was working an early test run.

My father took me for a ride on the trolley buses just before the last
run in London.

It was 2019 before I got the chance to ride on another one in public
service in Bergen.

Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> My father took me for a ride on the trolley buses just before the last
> run in London.
>
> It was 2019 before I got the chance to ride on another one in public
> service in Bergen.
>

They're quite common on the Continent, but I wonder if electric deckers and
bendies will push them out?

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> My father took me for a ride on the trolley buses just before the last
>> run in London.

Grandad in my case , just before Mother and I left London ,one of the
routes that went along Chiswick High Road.

>> It was 2019 before I got the chance to ride on another one in public
>> service in Bergen.
>>

>
> They're quite common on the Continent, but I wonder if electric deckers and
> bendies will push them out?
>
>
Possibly , Battery operation does mean you don’t have to move
infrastructure for road works etc.
The operators of Wellington in New Zealand used that reason for closing
down that system in 2017 despite the buses all being replaced since 2000.
They were going to turn them into hybrids using Gas turbines but that never
happened ,neither did converting them to straight battery so the relatively
modern vehicles were stored then offered for scrap. After an interim period
with diesel vehicles new battery buses including some double deck vehicles
have started to enter service.

GH

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> My father took me for a ride on the trolley buses just before the last
>>> run in London.
>
> Grandad in my case , just before Mother and I left London ,one of the
> routes that went along Chiswick High Road.
>
>
>
>>> It was 2019 before I got the chance to ride on another one in public
>>> service in Bergen.
>>>
>
>>
>> They're quite common on the Continent, but I wonder if electric deckers and
>> bendies will push them out?
>>
>>
> Possibly , Battery operation does mean you don’t have to move
> infrastructure for road works etc.

Trolley bus wires are also unsightly, much worse than tram wires. And, of
course, electric buses can eaily be diverted at short notice if needed (eg,
the police close a road because of an accident, a fire or a building
demolition), unlike trolley buses.

> The operators of Wellington in New Zealand used that reason for closing
> down that system in 2017 despite the buses all being replaced since 2000.
> They were going to turn them into hybrids using Gas turbines but that never
> happened ,neither did converting them to straight battery so the relatively
> modern vehicles were stored then offered for scrap. After an interim period
> with diesel vehicles new battery buses including some double deck vehicles
> have started to enter service.

London now has over 1000 electric buses, and all new buses are zero
emission. Within a decade, the whole fleet will be zero emission (mainly
electric, with a few hydrogen). That eliminates any demand for trolley
buses, and makes new tram lines unlikely.

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2023/august/london-reaches-major-milestone-with-more-than-1-000-zero-emission-buses

The electric buses are a pleasure to ride in, smooth and quiet.

In message <l7srucFmrj1U1@mid.individual.net>, at 13:40:28 on Fri, 12
Apr 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:

>So do have a memory of something that was rare ?

Arlesey in 1977, some kind of presumably unofficial firing range where
targets were the other side of the ECML, and people paused when trains
went past.
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 09:37:00 GMT, Recliner wrote:

> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> My father took me for a ride on the trolley buses just before the last
>> run in London.
>>
>> It was 2019 before I got the chance to ride on another one in public
>> service in Bergen.
>>
>>
> They're quite common on the Continent, but I wonder if electric deckers
> and bendies will push them out?

Actually I'm quite pleased to see that in Bucharest, while we do have some
full-electric buses (and very nice they are too), that in fact new
trolleys are now pushing out the diesels and hybrids.

The new trolleybuses are fitted with 'range extending' batteries which
mean they can operate on batteries for short stretches at the end of lines
(or in 'gaps' in the trolley network). So a number of routes which were
operated by diesels or hybrids just because of a small part of the route
that wasn't under the wires, are now being replaced with trolleys that
just switch to battery as needed. I was very happy to note that one of
the routes I take often - the 133 - is now since last Saturday the 97
trolleybus.

On 14 Apr 2024 10:31:41 GMT, Marland wrote:

> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> My father took me for a ride on the trolley buses just before the last
>>> run in London.
>
> Grandad in my case , just before Mother and I left London ,one of the
> routes that went along Chiswick High Road.
>
>
>
>>> It was 2019 before I got the chance to ride on another one in public
>>> service in Bergen.
>>>
>>>
>
>> They're quite common on the Continent, but I wonder if electric deckers
>> and bendies will push them out?
>>
>>
> Possibly , Battery operation does mean you don’t have to move
> infrastructure for road works etc.

You'd need one hell of a set of roadworks to need to divert a trolley -
trolleybuses routinely run two-lanes-away from the one with the wires
here, with the poles easily reaching over the traffic in the lane in-
between. Unless you're closing the entire road, a trolley can quite
easily go around roadworks.

Modern trolleybuses have range-extender batteries anyway, making it
somewhat moot.

On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 10:43:59 GMT, Recliner wrote:

> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> My father took me for a ride on the trolley buses just before the
>>>> last run in London.
>>
>> Grandad in my case , just before Mother and I left London ,one of the
>> routes that went along Chiswick High Road.
>>
>>
>>
>>>> It was 2019 before I got the chance to ride on another one in public
>>>> service in Bergen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>> They're quite common on the Continent, but I wonder if electric
>>> deckers and bendies will push them out?
>>>
>>>
>> Possibly , Battery operation does mean you don’t have to move
>> infrastructure for road works etc.
>
> Trolley bus wires are also unsightly, much worse than tram wires. And,
> of course,

Not sure I agree (not that I find either particularly unsightly, but...).
Trolley poles are evidently much more forgiving than pantographs - trolley
wires don't need constant tension equipment, and are thus considerably
more lightweight than tram OHL, and they can be quite happily hung from
lightweight spans attached to existing buildings or street furniture
rather than needing dedicated poles and complex catenary. In summer when
they disappear into the foliage of trees they're practically invisible
(whereas on the tram routes, the trees have to be cut back...)

> electric buses can eaily be diverted at short notice if
> needed (eg,
> the police close a road because of an accident, a fire or a building
> demolition), unlike trolley buses.

Modern trolleys with range-extender batteries solve that problem, although
as noted elsewhere it's a bit of a non-existent problem - you'd be
surprised how far from the wires a trolley-pole can reach in order to
drive around an accident/traffic jam/whatever.

Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On 14 Apr 2024 10:31:41 GMT, Marland wrote:
>
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> My father took me for a ride on the trolley buses just before the last
>>>> run in London.
>>
>> Grandad in my case , just before Mother and I left London ,one of the
>> routes that went along Chiswick High Road.
>>
>>
>>
>>>> It was 2019 before I got the chance to ride on another one in public
>>>> service in Bergen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>> They're quite common on the Continent, but I wonder if electric deckers
>>> and bendies will push them out?
>>>
>>>
>> Possibly , Battery operation does mean you don’t have to move
>> infrastructure for road works etc.
>
> You'd need one hell of a set of roadworks to need to divert a trolley -
> trolleybuses routinely run two-lanes-away from the one with the wires
> here, with the poles easily reaching over the traffic in the lane in-
> between. Unless you're closing the entire road, a trolley can quite
> easily go around roadworks.

I agree with what you are saying but “Road Works” can encompass things
like that to completely remodelling a junction into a roundabout with a
flyover. What did for UK systems was extending routes to new estates as
towns expanded post WW2.

> Modern trolleybuses have range-extender batteries anyway, making it
> somewhat moot.
>
Yes, which is why the Wellington withdrawal has been quite controversial
Some of old style UK ones had batteries but very short range .
ICBW but I think London had a depot that needed battery operation to reach
the wires on a main road nearby.

GH