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aus+uk / uk.railway / Disruption into Paddington

Disruption into Paddington

<CA$qKkD7K7DmFA70@perry.uk>

http://rslight.i2p/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=79177&group=uk.railway#79177

by: Roland Perry - Fri, 5 Apr 2024 08:13 UTC

There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
ASLEF's suicidal strike action, but I'm hearing reports of
Reading-Paddington being disrupted due to a fright train's SPAD and
subsequent derailment.
--
Roland Perry

Re: Disruption into Paddington

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From: rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk (ColinR)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Disruption into Paddington
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2024 14:34:54 +0100
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by: ColinR - Fri, 5 Apr 2024 13:34 UTC

On 05/04/2024 09:13, Roland Perry wrote:
> There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
> ASLEF's suicidal strike action, but I'm hearing reports of
> Reading-Paddington being disrupted due to a fright train's SPAD and
> subsequent derailment.

I love the typo "fright train" .... !

--
Colin

Re: Disruption into Paddington

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From: charlesellson@btinternet.com (Charles Ellson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Disruption into Paddington
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:19:14 +0100
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by: Charles Ellson - Sat, 6 Apr 2024 15:19 UTC

On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:13:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
>ASLEF's suicidal strike action,
>
Er, yes there are.

<snip>

Re: Disruption into Paddington

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From: charlesellson@btinternet.com (Charles Ellson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Disruption into Paddington
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:48:48 +0100
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by: Charles Ellson - Sat, 6 Apr 2024 15:48 UTC

On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:19:14 +0100, Charles Ellson
<charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:13:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
>>ASLEF's suicidal strike action,
>>
>Er, yes there are.
>
><snip>
Hmm, that seems to have been shunted into a siding until today.
Er, yes there were but only the DC line from 0918-1927

Re: Disruption into Paddington

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From: roland@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Disruption into Paddington
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2024 18:09:02 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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by: Roland Perry - Sat, 6 Apr 2024 17:09 UTC

In message <udr21jhm12evn1193skus32d6mjs7uh2oa@4ax.com>, at 16:48:48 on
Sat, 6 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:19:14 +0100, Charles Ellson
><charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:13:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
>>>ASLEF's suicidal strike action,
>>>
>>Er, yes there are.
>>
>><snip>
>Hmm, that seems to have been shunted into a siding until today.
>Er, yes there were but only the DC line from 0918-1927

Which TOC?
--
Roland Perry

Re: Disruption into Paddington

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From: charlesellson@btinternet.com (Charles Ellson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Disruption into Paddington
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2024 00:13:30 +0100
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by: Charles Ellson - Sat, 6 Apr 2024 23:13 UTC

On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 18:09:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <udr21jhm12evn1193skus32d6mjs7uh2oa@4ax.com>, at 16:48:48 on
>Sat, 6 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:19:14 +0100, Charles Ellson
>><charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:13:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
>>>>ASLEF's suicidal strike action,
>>>>
>>>Er, yes there are.
>>>
>>><snip>
>>Hmm, that seems to have been shunted into a siding until today.
>>Er, yes there were but only the DC line from 0918-1927
>
>Which TOC?
>
Caledonian Sleepers and London Overground.

Re: Disruption into Paddington

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From: roland@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Disruption into Paddington
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2024 05:41:11 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 32
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by: Roland Perry - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 04:41 UTC

In message <1nl31j5d18tehjjtat1g0dsbhsen69jga8@4ax.com>, at 00:13:30 on
Sun, 7 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 18:09:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <udr21jhm12evn1193skus32d6mjs7uh2oa@4ax.com>, at 16:48:48 on
>>Sat, 6 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:19:14 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>><charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:13:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
>>>>>ASLEF's suicidal strike action,
>>>>>
>>>>Er, yes there are.
>>>>
>>>><snip>
>>>Hmm, that seems to have been shunted into a siding until today.
>>>Er, yes there were but only the DC line from 0918-1927
>>
>>Which TOC?
>>
>Caledonian Sleepers and London Overground.

Caledonian Sleepers is the classic extreme corner case (is ASLEF
striking in Scotland anyway), and London Overground doesn't count as
"National Rail" in this instance. News reports mentioned the latter,
but not the former.
--
Roland Perry

Re: Disruption into Paddington

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From: usenet.tweed@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Disruption into Paddington
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2024 06:57:09 -0000 (UTC)
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by: Tweed - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 06:57 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <1nl31j5d18tehjjtat1g0dsbhsen69jga8@4ax.com>, at 00:13:30 on
> Sun, 7 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>> On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 18:09:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <udr21jhm12evn1193skus32d6mjs7uh2oa@4ax.com>, at 16:48:48 on
>>> Sat, 6 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>> On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:19:14 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:13:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
>>>>>> ASLEF's suicidal strike action,
>>>>>>
>>>>> Er, yes there are.
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>> Hmm, that seems to have been shunted into a siding until today.
>>>> Er, yes there were but only the DC line from 0918-1927
>>>
>>> Which TOC?
>>>
>> Caledonian Sleepers and London Overground.
>
> Caledonian Sleepers is the classic extreme corner case (is ASLEF
> striking in Scotland anyway), and London Overground doesn't count as
> "National Rail" in this instance. News reports mentioned the latter,
> but not the former.

Why isn’t London Overground part of National Rail?

Re: Disruption into Paddington

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From: roland@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Disruption into Paddington
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2024 09:08:08 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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by: Roland Perry - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 08:08 UTC

In message <uutg45$2l6j2$1@dont-email.me>, at 06:57:09 on Sun, 7 Apr
2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <1nl31j5d18tehjjtat1g0dsbhsen69jga8@4ax.com>, at 00:13:30 on
>> Sun, 7 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>> On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 18:09:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <udr21jhm12evn1193skus32d6mjs7uh2oa@4ax.com>, at 16:48:48 on
>>>> Sat, 6 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:19:14 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:13:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
>>>>>>> ASLEF's suicidal strike action,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Er, yes there are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>> Hmm, that seems to have been shunted into a siding until today.
>>>>> Er, yes there were but only the DC line from 0918-1927
>>>>
>>>> Which TOC?
>>>>
>>> Caledonian Sleepers and London Overground.
>>
>> Caledonian Sleepers is the classic extreme corner case (is ASLEF
>> striking in Scotland anyway), and London Overground doesn't count as
>> "National Rail" in this instance. News reports mentioned the latter,
>> but not the former.
>
>Why isn’t London Overground part of National Rail?

Because it's a franchise of TfL, not the DfT.
--
Roland Perry

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From: martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk (Coffee)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Disruption into Paddington
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2024 09:21:26 +0100
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by: Coffee - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 08:21 UTC

On 07/04/2024 05:41, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <1nl31j5d18tehjjtat1g0dsbhsen69jga8@4ax.com>, at 00:13:30 on
> Sun, 7 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>> On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 18:09:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <udr21jhm12evn1193skus32d6mjs7uh2oa@4ax.com>, at 16:48:48 on
>>> Sat, 6 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>> On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:19:14 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:13:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
>>>>>> ASLEF's suicidal strike action,
>>>>>>
>>>>> Er, yes there are.
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>> Hmm, that seems to have been shunted into a siding until today.
>>>> Er, yes there were but only the DC line from 0918-1927
>>>
>>> Which TOC?
>>>
>> Caledonian Sleepers and London Overground.
>
> Caledonian Sleepers is the classic extreme corner case (is ASLEF
> striking in Scotland anyway), and London Overground doesn't count as
> "National Rail" in this instance. News reports mentioned the latter,
> but not the former.

London Overground provides services on the National Rail network west of
London Paddington and north of London Liverpool Street railway stations
so does count.

Re: Disruption into Paddington

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From: usenet.tweed@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Disruption into Paddington
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2024 08:24:39 -0000 (UTC)
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by: Tweed - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 08:24 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <uutg45$2l6j2$1@dont-email.me>, at 06:57:09 on Sun, 7 Apr
> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <1nl31j5d18tehjjtat1g0dsbhsen69jga8@4ax.com>, at 00:13:30 on
>>> Sun, 7 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>> On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 18:09:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <udr21jhm12evn1193skus32d6mjs7uh2oa@4ax.com>, at 16:48:48 on
>>>>> Sat, 6 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:19:14 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:13:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
>>>>>>>> ASLEF's suicidal strike action,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Er, yes there are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>> Hmm, that seems to have been shunted into a siding until today.
>>>>>> Er, yes there were but only the DC line from 0918-1927
>>>>>
>>>>> Which TOC?
>>>>>
>>>> Caledonian Sleepers and London Overground.
>>>
>>> Caledonian Sleepers is the classic extreme corner case (is ASLEF
>>> striking in Scotland anyway), and London Overground doesn't count as
>>> "National Rail" in this instance. News reports mentioned the latter,
>>> but not the former.
>>
>> Why isn’t London Overground part of National Rail?
>
> Because it's a franchise of TfL, not the DfT.

So that makes Merseyrail, TfW and Scotrail not part of National Rail
either?

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From: mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk (Mike Humphrey)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Disruption into Paddington
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2024 08:47:36 -0000 (UTC)
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by: Mike Humphrey - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 08:47 UTC

On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 09:08:08 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <uutg45$2l6j2$1@dont-email.me>, at 06:57:09 on Sun, 7 Apr
>>Why isn’t London Overground part of National Rail?
>
> Because it's a franchise of TfL, not the DfT.

I'm not sure that disqualifies it. Not all TOCs are franchised by the DfT.
Caledonian Sleeper and Scotrail are Scottish Government franchises, and
Transport for Wales is a Welsh Government one.

London Overground and Elizabeth Line are included on the National Rail
"Find a TOC" page here https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/
find-a-train-company/ - London Underground isn't listed.

Mike

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by: Recliner - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 09:41 UTC

Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 07/04/2024 05:41, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <1nl31j5d18tehjjtat1g0dsbhsen69jga8@4ax.com>, at 00:13:30 on
>> Sun, 7 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>> On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 18:09:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <udr21jhm12evn1193skus32d6mjs7uh2oa@4ax.com>, at 16:48:48 on
>>>> Sat, 6 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:19:14 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:13:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
>>>>>>> ASLEF's suicidal strike action,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Er, yes there are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>> Hmm, that seems to have been shunted into a siding until today.
>>>>> Er, yes there were but only the DC line from 0918-1927
>>>>
>>>> Which TOC?
>>>>
>>> Caledonian Sleepers and London Overground.
>>
>> Caledonian Sleepers is the classic extreme corner case (is ASLEF
>> striking in Scotland anyway), and London Overground doesn't count as
>> "National Rail" in this instance. News reports mentioned the latter,
>> but not the former.
>
> London Overground provides services on the National Rail network west of
> London Paddington and north of London Liverpool Street railway stations
> so does count.
>

LO doesn't provide services to or through Paddington, but all the services
it does provide are on NR tracks, apart from the East London line (which
is, I think, still owned by TfL). It serves Liverpool St, Euston,
Richmond, Clapham Junction, West Croydon, Stratford, Chingford, etc. So it
definitely counts as 'National Rail'.

Re: Disruption into Paddington

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From: martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk (Coffee)
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Subject: Re: Disruption into Paddington
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by: Coffee - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 10:13 UTC

On 07/04/2024 10:41, Recliner wrote:
> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 07/04/2024 05:41, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <1nl31j5d18tehjjtat1g0dsbhsen69jga8@4ax.com>, at 00:13:30 on
>>> Sun, 7 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>> On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 18:09:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <udr21jhm12evn1193skus32d6mjs7uh2oa@4ax.com>, at 16:48:48 on
>>>>> Sat, 6 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:19:14 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:13:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
>>>>>>>> ASLEF's suicidal strike action,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Er, yes there are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>> Hmm, that seems to have been shunted into a siding until today.
>>>>>> Er, yes there were but only the DC line from 0918-1927
>>>>>
>>>>> Which TOC?
>>>>>
>>>> Caledonian Sleepers and London Overground.
>>>
>>> Caledonian Sleepers is the classic extreme corner case (is ASLEF
>>> striking in Scotland anyway), and London Overground doesn't count as
>>> "National Rail" in this instance. News reports mentioned the latter,
>>> but not the former.
>>
>> London Overground provides services on the National Rail network west of
>> London Paddington and north of London Liverpool Street railway stations
>> so does count.
>>
>
> LO doesn't provide services to or through Paddington, but all the services
> it does provide are on NR tracks, apart from the East London line (which
> is, I think, still owned by TfL). It serves Liverpool St, Euston,
> Richmond, Clapham Junction, West Croydon, Stratford, Chingford, etc. So it
> definitely counts as 'National Rail'.
>
I said west of London Paddington to exclude this railway station to
avoid this argument.

However LO does serve the station with it's own platforms.

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by: Recliner - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 10:26 UTC

Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 07/04/2024 10:41, Recliner wrote:
>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 07/04/2024 05:41, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <1nl31j5d18tehjjtat1g0dsbhsen69jga8@4ax.com>, at 00:13:30 on
>>>> Sun, 7 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 18:09:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <udr21jhm12evn1193skus32d6mjs7uh2oa@4ax.com>, at 16:48:48 on
>>>>>> Sat, 6 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:19:14 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:13:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
>>>>>>>>> ASLEF's suicidal strike action,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Er, yes there are.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>> Hmm, that seems to have been shunted into a siding until today.
>>>>>>> Er, yes there were but only the DC line from 0918-1927
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which TOC?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Caledonian Sleepers and London Overground.
>>>>
>>>> Caledonian Sleepers is the classic extreme corner case (is ASLEF
>>>> striking in Scotland anyway), and London Overground doesn't count as
>>>> "National Rail" in this instance. News reports mentioned the latter,
>>>> but not the former.
>>>
>>> London Overground provides services on the National Rail network west of
>>> London Paddington and north of London Liverpool Street railway stations
>>> so does count.
>>>
>>
>> LO doesn't provide services to or through Paddington, but all the services
>> it does provide are on NR tracks, apart from the East London line (which
>> is, I think, still owned by TfL). It serves Liverpool St, Euston,
>> Richmond, Clapham Junction, West Croydon, Stratford, Chingford, etc. So it
>> definitely counts as 'National Rail'.
>>
> I said west of London Paddington to exclude this railway station to
> avoid this argument.
>
> However LO does serve the station with it's own platforms.
>

No it doesn't. Try and find it on the LO map:

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-overground-network-map.pdf

The only central London termini served by LO are Euston and Liverpool
Street.

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From: roland@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Disruption into Paddington
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2024 11:31:49 +0100
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by: Roland Perry - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 10:31 UTC

In message <uutl87$2m91p$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:24:39 on Sun, 7 Apr
2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uutg45$2l6j2$1@dont-email.me>, at 06:57:09 on Sun, 7 Apr
>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <1nl31j5d18tehjjtat1g0dsbhsen69jga8@4ax.com>, at 00:13:30 on
>>>> Sun, 7 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 18:09:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <udr21jhm12evn1193skus32d6mjs7uh2oa@4ax.com>, at 16:48:48 on
>>>>>> Sat, 6 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:19:14 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:13:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
>>>>>>>>> ASLEF's suicidal strike action,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Er, yes there are.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>> Hmm, that seems to have been shunted into a siding until today.
>>>>>>> Er, yes there were but only the DC line from 0918-1927
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which TOC?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Caledonian Sleepers and London Overground.
>>>>
>>>> Caledonian Sleepers is the classic extreme corner case (is ASLEF
>>>> striking in Scotland anyway), and London Overground doesn't count as
>>>> "National Rail" in this instance. News reports mentioned the latter,
>>>> but not the former.
>>>
>>> Why isn’t London Overground part of National Rail?
>>
>> Because it's a franchise of TfL, not the DfT.
>
>So that makes Merseyrail, TfW and Scotrail not part of National Rail
>either?

I'm not sure who lets the Merseyrail franchise - is it really the sole
responsibility of the Mayor of Liverpool?

TfW and Scotrail report to National governments, just not the English
one.
--
Roland Perry

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Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Disruption into Paddington
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2024 11:33:47 +0100
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by: Roland Perry - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 10:33 UTC

In message <uutmj8$2lvm3$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:47:36 on Sun, 7 Apr
2024, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
>On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 09:08:08 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <uutg45$2l6j2$1@dont-email.me>, at 06:57:09 on Sun, 7 Apr
>>>Why isn’t London Overground part of National Rail?
>>
>> Because it's a franchise of TfL, not the DfT.
>
>I'm not sure that disqualifies it. Not all TOCs are franchised by the DfT.
>Caledonian Sleeper and Scotrail are Scottish Government franchises, and
>Transport for Wales is a Welsh Government one.

See the response I posted a few minutes ago.

>London Overground and Elizabeth Line are included on the National Rail
>"Find a TOC" page here https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/
>find-a-train-company/ - London Underground isn't listed.

I don't believe that makes them a TOC, rather than something a
dumbed-down website thinks describing as a TOC is helpful to the great
unwashed.
--
Roland Perry

Re: Disruption into Paddington

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From: roland@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Disruption into Paddington
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2024 11:35:40 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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by: Roland Perry - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 10:35 UTC

In message <uutl26$2m5rs$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:21:26 on Sun, 7 Apr
2024, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>On 07/04/2024 05:41, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <1nl31j5d18tehjjtat1g0dsbhsen69jga8@4ax.com>, at 00:13:30
>>on Sun, 7 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>remarked:
>>> On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 18:09:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <udr21jhm12evn1193skus32d6mjs7uh2oa@4ax.com>, at 16:48:48 on
>>>> Sat, 6 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:19:14 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:13:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
>>>>>>> ASLEF's suicidal strike action,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Er, yes there are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>> Hmm, that seems to have been shunted into a siding until today.
>>>>> Er, yes there were but only the DC line from 0918-1927
>>>>
>>>> Which TOC?
>>>>
>>> Caledonian Sleepers and London Overground.
>> Caledonian Sleepers is the classic extreme corner case (is ASLEF
>>striking in Scotland anyway), and London Overground doesn't count as
>>"National Rail" in this instance. News reports mentioned the latter,
>> but not the former.
>
>London Overground provides services on the National Rail network west
>of London Paddington and north of London Liverpool Street railway
>stations so does count.

I think the organisation responsible for the trains is more important
than which metals they run on. The UndergrounD runs on some Network Rail
metals, but that doesn't make them a TOC.
--
Roland Perry

Re: Disruption into Paddington

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From: roland@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Disruption into Paddington
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2024 11:36:14 +0100
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by: Roland Perry - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 10:36 UTC

In message <OStQN.23997$2G2.4402@fx07.ams1>, at 09:41:02 on Sun, 7 Apr
2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 07/04/2024 05:41, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <1nl31j5d18tehjjtat1g0dsbhsen69jga8@4ax.com>, at 00:13:30 on
>>> Sun, 7 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>> On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 18:09:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <udr21jhm12evn1193skus32d6mjs7uh2oa@4ax.com>, at 16:48:48 on
>>>>> Sat, 6 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:19:14 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:13:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
>>>>>>>> ASLEF's suicidal strike action,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Er, yes there are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>> Hmm, that seems to have been shunted into a siding until today.
>>>>>> Er, yes there were but only the DC line from 0918-1927
>>>>>
>>>>> Which TOC?
>>>>>
>>>> Caledonian Sleepers and London Overground.
>>>
>>> Caledonian Sleepers is the classic extreme corner case (is ASLEF
>>> striking in Scotland anyway), and London Overground doesn't count as
>>> "National Rail" in this instance. News reports mentioned the latter,
>>> but not the former.
>>
>> London Overground provides services on the National Rail network west of
>> London Paddington and north of London Liverpool Street railway stations
>> so does count.
>>
>
>LO doesn't provide services to or through Paddington, but all the services
>it does provide are on NR tracks, apart from the East London line (which
>is, I think, still owned by TfL). It serves Liverpool St, Euston,
>Richmond, Clapham Junction, West Croydon, Stratford, Chingford, etc. So it
>definitely counts as 'National Rail'.

As you can probably tell, I don't agree.
--
Roland Perry

Re: Disruption into Paddington

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by: Recliner - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 10:53 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <uutl87$2m91p$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:24:39 on Sun, 7 Apr
> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uutg45$2l6j2$1@dont-email.me>, at 06:57:09 on Sun, 7 Apr
>>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <1nl31j5d18tehjjtat1g0dsbhsen69jga8@4ax.com>, at 00:13:30 on
>>>>> Sun, 7 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 18:09:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In message <udr21jhm12evn1193skus32d6mjs7uh2oa@4ax.com>, at 16:48:48 on
>>>>>>> Sat, 6 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:19:14 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>>>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:13:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
>>>>>>>>>> ASLEF's suicidal strike action,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Er, yes there are.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>> Hmm, that seems to have been shunted into a siding until today.
>>>>>>>> Er, yes there were but only the DC line from 0918-1927
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which TOC?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Caledonian Sleepers and London Overground.
>>>>>
>>>>> Caledonian Sleepers is the classic extreme corner case (is ASLEF
>>>>> striking in Scotland anyway), and London Overground doesn't count as
>>>>> "National Rail" in this instance. News reports mentioned the latter,
>>>>> but not the former.
>>>>
>>>> Why isn’t London Overground part of National Rail?
>>>
>>> Because it's a franchise of TfL, not the DfT.
>>
>> So that makes Merseyrail, TfW and Scotrail not part of National Rail
>> either?
>
> I'm not sure who lets the Merseyrail franchise - is it really the sole
> responsibility of the Mayor of Liverpool?

It's not a franchise.

>
> TfW and Scotrail report to National governments, just not the English
> one.

So why is it different if the governing body for London (more population
than Scotland and Wales combined) lets the LO concession?

Re: Disruption into Paddington

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by: Recliner - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 11:02 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <OStQN.23997$2G2.4402@fx07.ams1>, at 09:41:02 on Sun, 7 Apr
> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 07/04/2024 05:41, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <1nl31j5d18tehjjtat1g0dsbhsen69jga8@4ax.com>, at 00:13:30 on
>>>> Sun, 7 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 18:09:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <udr21jhm12evn1193skus32d6mjs7uh2oa@4ax.com>, at 16:48:48 on
>>>>>> Sat, 6 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:19:14 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:13:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
>>>>>>>>> ASLEF's suicidal strike action,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Er, yes there are.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>> Hmm, that seems to have been shunted into a siding until today.
>>>>>>> Er, yes there were but only the DC line from 0918-1927
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which TOC?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Caledonian Sleepers and London Overground.
>>>>
>>>> Caledonian Sleepers is the classic extreme corner case (is ASLEF
>>>> striking in Scotland anyway), and London Overground doesn't count as
>>>> "National Rail" in this instance. News reports mentioned the latter,
>>>> but not the former.
>>>
>>> London Overground provides services on the National Rail network west of
>>> London Paddington and north of London Liverpool Street railway stations
>>> so does count.
>>>
>>
>> LO doesn't provide services to or through Paddington, but all the services
>> it does provide are on NR tracks, apart from the East London line (which
>> is, I think, still owned by TfL). It serves Liverpool St, Euston,
>> Richmond, Clapham Junction, West Croydon, Stratford, Chingford, etc. So it
>> definitely counts as 'National Rail'.
>
> As you can probably tell, I don't agree.

You don't need to agree with the rest of the world. Just as you define many
words to have your own, unique meanings, you're perfectly free to have your
own definitions of everything else in your private Ely bubble. But it would
help you communicate more efficiently with the world outside your bubble if
you made the gracious concession to use the definition everyone else does.

Re: Disruption into Paddington

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by: Recliner - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 11:04 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <uutl26$2m5rs$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:21:26 on Sun, 7 Apr
> 2024, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>> On 07/04/2024 05:41, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <1nl31j5d18tehjjtat1g0dsbhsen69jga8@4ax.com>, at 00:13:30
>>> on Sun, 7 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>> remarked:
>>>> On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 18:09:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <udr21jhm12evn1193skus32d6mjs7uh2oa@4ax.com>, at 16:48:48 on
>>>>> Sat, 6 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:19:14 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:13:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
>>>>>>>> ASLEF's suicidal strike action,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Er, yes there are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>> Hmm, that seems to have been shunted into a siding until today.
>>>>>> Er, yes there were but only the DC line from 0918-1927
>>>>>
>>>>> Which TOC?
>>>>>
>>>> Caledonian Sleepers and London Overground.
>>> Caledonian Sleepers is the classic extreme corner case (is ASLEF
>>> striking in Scotland anyway), and London Overground doesn't count as
>>> "National Rail" in this instance. News reports mentioned the latter,
>>> but not the former.
>>
>> London Overground provides services on the National Rail network west
>> of London Paddington and north of London Liverpool Street railway
>> stations so does count.
>
> I think the organisation responsible for the trains is more important
> than which metals they run on. The UndergrounD runs on some Network Rail
> metals, but that doesn't make them a TOC.

LO is a concession, just like GA, XC or GTR.

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by: Certes - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 11:08 UTC

On 07/04/2024 11:33, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <uutmj8$2lvm3$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:47:36 on Sun, 7 Apr
> 2024, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
>> On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 09:08:08 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <uutg45$2l6j2$1@dont-email.me>, at 06:57:09 on Sun, 7 Apr
>>>> Why isn’t London Overground part of National Rail?
>>>
>>> Because it's a franchise of TfL, not the DfT.
>>
>> I'm not sure that disqualifies it. Not all TOCs are franchised by the
>> DfT.
>> Caledonian Sleeper and Scotrail are Scottish Government franchises, and
>> Transport for Wales is a Welsh Government one.
>
> See the response I posted a few minutes ago.
>
>> London Overground and Elizabeth Line are included on the National Rail
>> "Find a TOC" page here https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/
>> find-a-train-company/ - London Underground isn't listed.
>
> I don't believe that makes them a TOC, rather than something a
> dumbed-down website thinks describing as a TOC is helpful to the great
> unwashed.

The relevant question here is whether it's an organisation that employs
drivers and hasn't yet offered them a pay rise that they are happy with.

Re: Disruption into Paddington

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by: Recliner - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 11:09 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <uutmj8$2lvm3$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:47:36 on Sun, 7 Apr
> 2024, Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> remarked:
>> On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 09:08:08 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <uutg45$2l6j2$1@dont-email.me>, at 06:57:09 on Sun, 7 Apr
>>>> Why isn’t London Overground part of National Rail?
>>>
>>> Because it's a franchise of TfL, not the DfT.
>>
>> I'm not sure that disqualifies it. Not all TOCs are franchised by the DfT.
>> Caledonian Sleeper and Scotrail are Scottish Government franchises, and
>> Transport for Wales is a Welsh Government one.
>
> See the response I posted a few minutes ago.
>
>> London Overground and Elizabeth Line are included on the National Rail
>> "Find a TOC" page here https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/
>> find-a-train-company/ - London Underground isn't listed.
>
> I don't believe that makes them a TOC, rather than something a
> dumbed-down website thinks describing as a TOC is helpful to the great
> unwashed.

So you're saying that you know better than National Rail which operators
are part of National Rail?

That's useful to know. It must mean you're personally responsible for all
its failures.

Re: Disruption into Paddington

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Subject: Re: Disruption into Paddington
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2024 11:24:14 -0000 (UTC)
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by: Tweed - Sun, 7 Apr 2024 11:24 UTC

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uutl87$2m91p$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:24:39 on Sun, 7 Apr
>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <uutg45$2l6j2$1@dont-email.me>, at 06:57:09 on Sun, 7 Apr
>>>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <1nl31j5d18tehjjtat1g0dsbhsen69jga8@4ax.com>, at 00:13:30 on
>>>>>> Sun, 7 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 18:09:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In message <udr21jhm12evn1193skus32d6mjs7uh2oa@4ax.com>, at 16:48:48 on
>>>>>>>> Sat, 6 Apr 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 16:19:14 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>>>>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:13:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There's no National Rail trains in and out of Euston today because of
>>>>>>>>>>> ASLEF's suicidal strike action,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Er, yes there are.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>> Hmm, that seems to have been shunted into a siding until today.
>>>>>>>>> Er, yes there were but only the DC line from 0918-1927
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which TOC?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Caledonian Sleepers and London Overground.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Caledonian Sleepers is the classic extreme corner case (is ASLEF
>>>>>> striking in Scotland anyway), and London Overground doesn't count as
>>>>>> "National Rail" in this instance. News reports mentioned the latter,
>>>>>> but not the former.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why isn’t London Overground part of National Rail?
>>>>
>>>> Because it's a franchise of TfL, not the DfT.
>>>
>>> So that makes Merseyrail, TfW and Scotrail not part of National Rail
>>> either?
>>
>> I'm not sure who lets the Merseyrail franchise - is it really the sole
>> responsibility of the Mayor of Liverpool?
>
> It's not a franchise.
>
>>
>> TfW and Scotrail report to National governments, just not the English
>> one.
>
> So why is it different if the governing body for London (more population
> than Scotland and Wales combined) lets the LO concession?
>
>

Isn’t a better definition of National Rail services that run largely over
track assets owned by Network Rail? I appreciate there may be some grey
areas on the outer portions of the Underground.

Lumo and the other open access operators aren’t franchised but most folk
would consider them to be part of a National Rail service.

Eurostar isn’t part of National Rail and its track assets aren’t owned
(though maintained by) by Network Rail.

Finally, the National Conditions of Travel also apply to London Overground
(and the open access operators)

Page 29 (for the haystack averse)

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e8xgegruud3g/3Y9UXuFziljwsGFCUAwKAA/0aa50a101febffda28c070aae2572570/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel.pdf

Subject	Author
Disruption into Paddington	Roland Perry
Re: Disruption into Paddington	ColinR
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Charles Ellson
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Charles Ellson
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Roland Perry
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Charles Ellson
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Roland Perry
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Tweed
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Roland Perry
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Tweed
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Roland Perry
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Recliner
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Tweed
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Recliner
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Bob
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Roland Perry
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Davy41
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Mike Humphrey
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Roland Perry
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Certes
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Recliner
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Mike Humphrey
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Roland Perry
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Recliner
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Tweed
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Charles Ellson
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Charles Ellson
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Mike Humphrey
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Graeme Wall
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Tweed
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Roland Perry
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Tweed
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Coffee
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Recliner
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Coffee
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Recliner
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Roland Perry
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Recliner
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Roland Perry
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Recliner
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Roland Perry
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Recliner
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Roland Perry
Re: Disruption into Paddington	Recliner