Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I doubt there will be much traffic between Sheffield Hallam (Sheffield) and
>>>>>>>> Sheffield Hallam (London). The latter will only exist to extract fees from
>>>>>>>> foreign students, probably on one year courses, to provide funds to prop up
>>>>>>>> Sheffield Hallam (Sheffield). As with all attempts to game a system, I
>>>>>>>> predict it will ultimately end in tears.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I might ask my friends in Sheffield, one of whom works at SH.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You should ask them why SH feels the urge to operate outside of its home
>>>>>> town. It has no shareholders, thus no need to expand beyond its home area
>>>>>> to make greater returns, and London is not a place desperate for education
>>>>>> provision that only SH can provide. The higher education sector, other than
>>>>>> the very top institutions, is in a terrible financial mess and seeks
>>>>>> salvation from foreign student fees.
>>>>>
>>>>> You think the higher echelons of higher education don’t feel the same
>>>>> pressures? My own former employer greatly expanded its own most lucrative
>>>>> courses - taught postgraduate courses aimed at foreign students. It also
>>>>> started a cooperative endeavour with a Chinese university campus, but I’m
>>>>> not sure what came of that. Oh, here’s news from a year ago - seems like
>>>>> everything is rosy. Hmm.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.ed.ac.uk/global/stories/zhejiang-university>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sam
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Depends on where you draw the boundary of very top…
>>>
>>> And what criteria you use. Edinburgh tends to come in the top 5 in the UK
>>> and, on some rankings, in the top 20 in the world. Pre-lockdown we used to
>>> come pretty low on student satisfaction (a deeply debatable measure) but
>>> very good on research. If you’re talking about overall income, especially
>>> from endowments and other such sources, then Edinburgh scores pretty low.
>>>
>>> I’m had heard that at least one medium ranking UK university was
>>> considering relinquishing its charitable status so that it could
>>> concentrate on obtaining extra sources of income, but I got that
>>> second/third/whatever hand and whilst it’s plausible I don’t have an
>>> authoritative reference.
>>>
>>> Sam
>>>
>>
>> Glasgow (all the universities there combined) seems to be very attractive
>> to foreign students for some reason. The student accommodation building
>> boom is ongoing.
>
> Lots of Chinese students here along with a similar boom in accommodation,
> and also in restaurants and cafes with menus in Chinese script. They have
> supplanted and outnumbered the Polish delis.
>
> Sam
>

Perhaps Scotland has the same overseas brand recognition as London, Oxford
and Cambridge, so it doesn’t really matter if you go to Glasgow rather than
Edinburgh.

In message <unohb0$2v7oj$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:53:20 on Thu, 11 Jan
2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

>Overseas students want London, Oxford or Cambridge on their CV as
>nobody back home has heard of anywhere else. There’s a few second/third
>tier establishments already gaming their geographical proximity to
>Oxford or Cambridge.

Including Anglia Ruskin, who have an outpost that used to be known
locally as East Road Tech, from their HQ in Chelmsford which used
to be officially "Mid Essex Tech".

<http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/stations/sponsored/cbg4l.jpg>
--
Roland Perry

In message <Nkc*be-zz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 10:33:43 on Thu,
11 Jan 2024, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <Mkc*M25zz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 10:51:06 on Wed,
>> 10 Jan 2024, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:
>> >Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> >> In message <SCk*3q2zz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 18:30:52 on Tue,
>> >> 9 Jan 2024, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:
>> >> >Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> >> >> In message <UCk*kw1zz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 14:20:26 on Tue,
>> >> >> 9 Jan 2024, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >It's a bit disappointing there's no station on the MML where most
>> >> >> >commuter and intercity trains stop, so you can switch from one to
>> >> >> >another: like Reading, Peterborough, Woking, etc.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It has a name: "St Albanisation".
>> >> >
>> >> >Not familiar with the south WCML but does MKC now cover that
>> >> >role? Not all
>> >> >Avanti trains stop, of course, but some do.
>> >> >
>> >> >> And it's got worse, since they effectively St Albanised Bedford.
>> >> >
>> >> >I would have thought that Luton Airport Parkway would be a good place to
>> >> >interchange, in the way Gatwick is. There must be a decent chunk
>> >> >of traffic
>> >> >to the airport from Leicester, Nottingham etc, especially with
>> >> >the opening
>> >> >of DART. Maybe EMR don't want Luton passengers on Meridians from London,
>> >> >but that's fixable with pick up/set down restrictions.
>> >>
>> >> When I was using that route (and probably still, now) only 1tph long
>> >> distance services stopping at Luton Airport Parkway.
>> >
>> >According to the timetable only the Thameslink and Corby services stop at
>> >any of the Lutons or Bedford. The long distance trains don't stop between
>> >London and Leicester.
>>
>> That can't be true, unless they've stopped stopping at for example
>> Market Harborough.
>
>Only the Nottinghams stop at Market Harborough:
>https://www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk/media/2680/download?inline
>
>So anyone from Long Eaton or further north (Sheffield being the focus of
>this thread) needs to change at EMP

The code for Emerson Park <sigh>

>/Loughborough/Leicester, Kettering, *and* Luton to reach BCW.

Blaencwm <sigh and sigh again>

>For example, in the morning:
>
>Sheffield d 0757
>Leicester a 0903
>
>Leicester d 0912
>Kettering a 0935
>
>Kettering d 0948
>Luton a 1025
>
>Luton d 1047
>BCW a 1117
>
>If the Sheffield/Derby traveller is flying from the airport it's the same
>but the Kettering train stops at the airport:
>
>Kettering d 0948
>Luton AP a 1029

So the proposition that no long distance trains stop between Leicester
and London was, shall we say, stupendously inaccurate.
--
Roland Perry

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I doubt there will be much traffic between Sheffield Hallam (Sheffield) and
>>>>>>>>> Sheffield Hallam (London). The latter will only exist to extract fees from
>>>>>>>>> foreign students, probably on one year courses, to provide funds to prop up
>>>>>>>>> Sheffield Hallam (Sheffield). As with all attempts to game a system, I
>>>>>>>>> predict it will ultimately end in tears.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I might ask my friends in Sheffield, one of whom works at SH.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You should ask them why SH feels the urge to operate outside of its home
>>>>>>> town. It has no shareholders, thus no need to expand beyond its home area
>>>>>>> to make greater returns, and London is not a place desperate for education
>>>>>>> provision that only SH can provide. The higher education sector, other than
>>>>>>> the very top institutions, is in a terrible financial mess and seeks
>>>>>>> salvation from foreign student fees.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You think the higher echelons of higher education don’t feel the same
>>>>>> pressures? My own former employer greatly expanded its own most lucrative
>>>>>> courses - taught postgraduate courses aimed at foreign students. It also
>>>>>> started a cooperative endeavour with a Chinese university campus, but I’m
>>>>>> not sure what came of that. Oh, here’s news from a year ago - seems like
>>>>>> everything is rosy. Hmm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.ed.ac.uk/global/stories/zhejiang-university>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Depends on where you draw the boundary of very top…
>>>>
>>>> And what criteria you use. Edinburgh tends to come in the top 5 in the UK
>>>> and, on some rankings, in the top 20 in the world. Pre-lockdown we used to
>>>> come pretty low on student satisfaction (a deeply debatable measure) but
>>>> very good on research. If you’re talking about overall income, especially
>>>> from endowments and other such sources, then Edinburgh scores pretty low.
>>>>
>>>> I’m had heard that at least one medium ranking UK university was
>>>> considering relinquishing its charitable status so that it could
>>>> concentrate on obtaining extra sources of income, but I got that
>>>> second/third/whatever hand and whilst it’s plausible I don’t have an
>>>> authoritative reference.
>>>>
>>>> Sam
>>>>
>>>
>>> Glasgow (all the universities there combined) seems to be very attractive
>>> to foreign students for some reason. The student accommodation building
>>> boom is ongoing.
>>
>> Lots of Chinese students here along with a similar boom in accommodation,
>> and also in restaurants and cafes with menus in Chinese script. They have
>> supplanted and outnumbered the Polish delis.
>>
>> Sam
>>
>
> Perhaps Scotland has the same overseas brand recognition as London, Oxford
> and Cambridge, so it doesn’t really matter if you go to Glasgow rather than
> Edinburgh.

That’s something that’s clearly changed in the last 40-50 years - when I
started as a student in the 1970s Edinburgh had lots of NI students and
Glasgow had hardly any, but it did have a large proportion of students who
stayed in the family home.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I doubt there will be much traffic between Sheffield Hallam (Sheffield) and
>>>>>>>>>> Sheffield Hallam (London). The latter will only exist to extract fees from
>>>>>>>>>> foreign students, probably on one year courses, to provide funds to prop up
>>>>>>>>>> Sheffield Hallam (Sheffield). As with all attempts to game a system, I
>>>>>>>>>> predict it will ultimately end in tears.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I might ask my friends in Sheffield, one of whom works at SH.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You should ask them why SH feels the urge to operate outside of its home
>>>>>>>> town. It has no shareholders, thus no need to expand beyond its home area
>>>>>>>> to make greater returns, and London is not a place desperate for education
>>>>>>>> provision that only SH can provide. The higher education sector, other than
>>>>>>>> the very top institutions, is in a terrible financial mess and seeks
>>>>>>>> salvation from foreign student fees.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You think the higher echelons of higher education don’t feel the same
>>>>>>> pressures? My own former employer greatly expanded its own most lucrative
>>>>>>> courses - taught postgraduate courses aimed at foreign students. It also
>>>>>>> started a cooperative endeavour with a Chinese university campus, but I’m
>>>>>>> not sure what came of that. Oh, here’s news from a year ago - seems like
>>>>>>> everything is rosy. Hmm.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.ed.ac.uk/global/stories/zhejiang-university>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Depends on where you draw the boundary of very top…
>>>>>
>>>>> And what criteria you use. Edinburgh tends to come in the top 5 in the UK
>>>>> and, on some rankings, in the top 20 in the world. Pre-lockdown we used to
>>>>> come pretty low on student satisfaction (a deeply debatable measure) but
>>>>> very good on research. If you’re talking about overall income, especially
>>>>> from endowments and other such sources, then Edinburgh scores pretty low.
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m had heard that at least one medium ranking UK university was
>>>>> considering relinquishing its charitable status so that it could
>>>>> concentrate on obtaining extra sources of income, but I got that
>>>>> second/third/whatever hand and whilst it’s plausible I don’t have an
>>>>> authoritative reference.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sam
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Glasgow (all the universities there combined) seems to be very attractive
>>>> to foreign students for some reason. The student accommodation building
>>>> boom is ongoing.
>>>
>>> Lots of Chinese students here along with a similar boom in accommodation,
>>> and also in restaurants and cafes with menus in Chinese script. They have
>>> supplanted and outnumbered the Polish delis.
>>>
>>> Sam
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps Scotland has the same overseas brand recognition as London, Oxford
>> and Cambridge, so it doesn’t really matter if you go to Glasgow rather than
>> Edinburgh.
>
> That’s something that’s clearly changed in the last 40-50 years - when I
> started as a student in the 1970s Edinburgh had lots of NI students and
> Glasgow had hardly any, but it did have a large proportion of students who
> stayed in the family home.
>
> Sam
>

NI students are likely to be more clued up about which institution to go to
than the current overseas student cohort.

On Thu, 11 Jan 2024 17:15:29 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <unohb0$2v7oj$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:53:20 on Thu, 11 Jan
>2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>Overseas students want London, Oxford or Cambridge on their CV as
>>nobody back home has heard of anywhere else. There’s a few second/third
>>tier establishments already gaming their geographical proximity to
>>Oxford or Cambridge.
>
>Including Anglia Ruskin, who have an outpost that used to be known
>locally as East Road Tech, from their HQ in Chelmsford which used
>to be officially "Mid Essex Tech".
>
> <http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/stations/sponsored/cbg4l.jpg>

According to Wiki ARU started as the Cambridge School of Art. They
may, I grant, have an outpost in Chelmsford.

In message <nu22qi55unlk7fa59vqutfnnccfc414k03@4ax.com>, at 09:53:15 on
Fri, 12 Jan 2024, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>On Thu, 11 Jan 2024 17:15:29 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <unohb0$2v7oj$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:53:20 on Thu, 11 Jan
>>2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>Overseas students want London, Oxford or Cambridge on their CV as
>>>nobody back home has heard of anywhere else. There’s a few second/third
>>>tier establishments already gaming their geographical proximity to
>>>Oxford or Cambridge.
>>
>>Including Anglia Ruskin, who have an outpost that used to be known
>>locally as East Road Tech, from their HQ in Chelmsford which used
>>to be officially "Mid Essex Tech".
>>
>> <http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/stations/sponsored/cbg4l.jpg>
>
>According to Wiki

A publisher of sometimes unreliable crowd sourced information M'Lud.

>ARU started as the Cambridge School of Art. They may, I grant, have an
>outpost in Chelmsford.

I don't recall an institution of that name, but the "Cambridge College
of Arts and Technology" <thread convergence, trademark issue, nothing at
all to do with Cambridge University> does ring a bell.

The Chelmsford connection, which I have always regarded as their hub is
mentioned briefly here:

In 1989 CCAT merged with the Essex Institute of Higher
Education, which was originally a vocational school named
Chelmsford School of Science and Art and was later known as Mid
Essex Technical College and Chelmer Institute of Higher
Education, to form the Anglia Higher Education College. The
merged college became a polytechnic in 1991, using the name
Anglia Polytechnic, and was then awarded university status in
1992.

I used to frequent the place in 1968-71 when it was Mid Essex Tech.
--
Roland Perry

On 12/01/2024 10:23, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <nu22qi55unlk7fa59vqutfnnccfc414k03@4ax.com>, at 09:53:15 on
> Fri, 12 Jan 2024, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>> On Thu, 11 Jan 2024 17:15:29 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <unohb0$2v7oj$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:53:20 on Thu, 11 Jan
>>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>> Overseas students want London, Oxford or Cambridge on their CV as
>>>> nobody back home has heard of anywhere else. There’s a few second/third
>>>> tier establishments already gaming their geographical proximity to
>>>> Oxford or Cambridge.
>>>
>>> Including Anglia Ruskin, who have an outpost that used to be known
>>> locally as East Road Tech, from their HQ in Chelmsford which used
>>> to be officially "Mid Essex Tech".
>>>
>>> <http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/stations/sponsored/cbg4l.jpg>
>>
>> According to Wiki
>
> A publisher of sometimes unreliable crowd sourced information M'Lud.
>
>> ARU started as the Cambridge School of Art. They may, I grant, have an
>> outpost in Chelmsford.
>
> I don't recall an institution of that name, but the "Cambridge College
> of Arts and Technology" <thread convergence, trademark issue, nothing at
> all to do with Cambridge University> does ring a bell.
>
> The Chelmsford connection, which I have always regarded as their hub is
> mentioned briefly here:
>
> In 1989 CCAT merged with the Essex Institute of Higher
> Education, which was originally a vocational school named
> Chelmsford School of Science and Art and was later known as Mid
> Essex Technical College and Chelmer Institute of Higher
> Education, to form the Anglia Higher Education College. The
> merged college became a polytechnic in 1991, using the name
> Anglia Polytechnic, and was then awarded university status in
> 1992.
>
> I used to frequent the place in 1968-71 when it was Mid Essex Tech.

Yes, I remember CCAT, though I never visited it. It may well have been
taken over by the Essex institute, making its head office Chelmsford.

On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 10:23:13 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

>In message <nu22qi55unlk7fa59vqutfnnccfc414k03@4ax.com>, at 09:53:15 on
>Fri, 12 Jan 2024, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>On Thu, 11 Jan 2024 17:15:29 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In message <unohb0$2v7oj$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:53:20 on Thu, 11 Jan
>>>2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>Overseas students want London, Oxford or Cambridge on their CV as
>>>>nobody back home has heard of anywhere else. There’s a few second/third
>>>>tier establishments already gaming their geographical proximity to
>>>>Oxford or Cambridge.
>>>
>>>Including Anglia Ruskin, who have an outpost that used to be known
>>>locally as East Road Tech, from their HQ in Chelmsford which used
>>>to be officially "Mid Essex Tech".
>>>
>>> <http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/stations/sponsored/cbg4l.jpg>
>>
>>According to Wiki
>
>A publisher of sometimes unreliable crowd sourced information M'Lud.

The page includes a cite:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=pTFcAAAAQAAJ&pg=PP2&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

It's also mentioned on ARU's own website:

https://www.aru.ac.uk/about-us/our-history

>>ARU started as the Cambridge School of Art. They may, I grant, have an
>>outpost in Chelmsford.
>
>I don't recall an institution of that name, but the "Cambridge College
>of Arts and Technology" <thread convergence, trademark issue, nothing at
>all to do with Cambridge University> does ring a bell.

It became CCAT in 1960 (and then Anglia Polytechnic in 1991). So I wouldn't
expect you to remember it as CSA.

Mark

On Thu, 11 Jan 2024 10:53:20 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Didn't need Hallam to provide those opportunities, there is already the
>>> odd further education establishment in the London area I've heard.
>>
>> Speaking of HE establishments in the London area, another MML university
>> town has a London campus:
>>
>> https://www.lboro.ac.uk/international/locations/london/
>>
>
>It’s currently the in thing. Overseas students want London, Oxford or
>Cambridge on their CV as nobody back home has heard of anywhere else.
>There’s a few second/third tier establishments already gaming their
>geographical proximity to Oxford or Cambridge. You will note that all the
>courses put on in London by non London establishments are cheap to put on -
>no expensive labs etc and minimal student contact time. The more honourable
>motivations of the students are to improve their CV, improve their English
>and gain exposure to our culture (which despite its current failings is
>still held in high regard). There are some less honourable motivations as
>well. The providers are simply after the higher fees they get from overseas
>students. Educational advancement is a secondary issue in all of this.

I returned to the station yesterday, to take a second look at the things I either missed or failed to photograph on the
previous week's trip. I've uploaded some more images, but one might be of interest in this context — it shows the
architect's impression of the station entrance when it's in full use. Take a closer look at all the young people milling
around — they seem to be an accurate reflection of the SHU's target market:

<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/53463451469/in/album-72177720313873465/lightbox/>

One that intrigued me was the sign on the cab rank outside the station, which perhaps hints at a future name change for
the station:
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/53463273513/in/album-72177720313873465/>

Here's the full set:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72177720313873465/

I then took a walk through the Brent Cross Town building sites, and also visited The Pavilion (ie, the sales office),
where a nice young lady gave me the sales spiel and tried to answer my questions. There's a good model of the Town
there. I'll upload a separate set of images and comments in the next day or two.

Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Jan 2024 09:26:00 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 09 Jan 2024 01:02:20 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> True.
>>>>
>>>> But, in this case, the station would probably be better named Brent Cross
>>>> Town, the brand new neighbourhood that is being built around it. I gather
>>>> that the original plan had been been to build the new station a few years
>>>> later, when the new 'town' was partly complete and occupied, but Barnet
>>>> Council realised that the regeneration area would succeed more quickly if
>>>> the station was already open. I'm sure they're right in that, but for now,
>>>> it's something of a shiny ghost station.
>>>>
>>>> So, if you like taking pictures of unpopulated, spacious railway stations,
>>>> now is a good time to visit.
>>>>
>>>
>>> All of the above applies equally to Meridian Water and, from what I
>>> could see, to Barking Riverside.
>>>
>>
>> No, both of those are in more developed areas, and the (less frequent,
>> shorter) trains are busier.
>>
> Meridian Water is a wasteland/huge building site. I wasn't referring
> to the service pattern as the shiny new station does not compare with
> Brent, but it's still over-provided for the current demand. It
> replaced Angel Road, a couple of hundred metres along the line, which
> had a very sporadic service indeed. At one time an off-peak service
> was supported by Haringey but even with trains provided nobody used
> them. Partly this was due to the difficulty getting to the station
> after the rebuilding of the North Circular, but mainly because the
> only traffic draw was a retail park that wasn't close enough,
> especially if carrying a Swedish flat pack sofa.
>
> MW has just a very few peak services calling at the through platforms,
> so mostly it's stuck with the Stratford shuttle from the bay. Well, a
> shuttle in effect. The diagrams actually go Bishop's
> Stortford-Stratford-Meridian Water-Stratford-Bishop's Stortford. I
> don't think many people use the service between Tottenham Hale and MW.
> As to Barking Riverside I was the only passenger and I gave up trying
> to navigate the corridors between building sites. But it has a full
> Goblin service.
>

When I visited Barking Riverside recently with Robin, there were a handful
of other passengers. The area immediately around the station is now open
and accessible, with an easy walking route to the river pier (unfortunately
with a 2-hour wait for the next boat), and several buses passed by.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
> On 09.01.2024 09:32, Recliner wrote:
>> Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>>> On 09.01.2024 02:02, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 07 Jan 2024 17:42:34 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Brent Cross West station opened four weeks ago, but I didn't manage to get
>>>>>> there till last week. In the meantime, the usual bloggers have published
>>>>>> good, well-illustrated reports on it, so I don't propose to repeat what
>>>>>> they've already said. So here's my observations:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The name is misleading. It suggests that the station is sited to the west
>>>>>> of the eponymous shopping centre, and is designed to serve it.
>>>>>>
>>>>> The eponymy derives from a slightly more proximate road junction not
>>>>> the shopping centre. It seems fully within the tradition of naming
>>>>> stations after somewhere that the station is not immediately adjacent
>>>>> to, e.g. Kingsbury, <insert placename> Road, Clapham Junction etc.
>>>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>> True.
>>>>
>>>> But, in this case, the station would probably be better named Brent Cross
>>>> Town, the brand new neighbourhood that is being built around it. I gather
>>>> that the original plan had been been to build the new station a few years
>>>> later, when the new 'town' was partly complete and occupied, but Barnet
>>>> Council realised that the regeneration area would succeed more quickly if
>>>> the station was already open. I'm sure they're right in that, but for now,
>>>> it's something of a shiny ghost station.
>>>>
>>>> So, if you like taking pictures of unpopulated, spacious railway stations,
>>>> now is a good time to visit.
>>>
>>> Obviously the developers will be more interested in having the station
>>> already open, as they can attract a higher sales price for their units
>>> for a "station with good service just round the corner" than with a
>>> "station might be built in a few years perhaps". It also means all the
>>> disruption, noise and traffic associated with building the station will
>>> happen when there is also a whole bunch of disruption, noise and traffic
>>> from building the new housing, rather than after the housing is build
>>> and being lived in. Same sort of thing happend with Barking Riverside,
>>> which currently is a station in a windswept desolate empty space by the
>>> river, but when the housing in the area is built, might prove reasonably
>>> useful for the new residents.
>>
>> Yes, my first thought was to compare this new station to Barking Riverside,
>> but there are many differences. The latter has a working school, and many
>> occupied new properties, nearby. It also has working bus routes. And it's a
>> much smaller station, with a less frequent service from shorter trains, so
>> each train leaves with a reasonable number of passengers. Brent Cross Town
>> just consists of building sites, most of which have yet to start
>> construction.
>>
>> The area next to Barking Riverside:
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52412966887/in/album-72177720301633130/lightbox/
>
> Brent Cross West is an intermediate stop on Thameslink. The length and
> frequency of trains is governed by the needs of the route as a whole.
> One station with temporarily low footfall makes a negligible difference
> to the train service overall. Barking Riverside, on the other hand, is
> at the end of a branch that serves no other purpose than to serve
> Barking Riverside. It comes down to what the actual marginal cost is to
> having the station open now with low traffic for a while. It doesn't
> seem to me there is a good reason to sit on a finished station and leave
> it closed, rather than provide the service that might have a small
> benefit to a few people until the construction projects around it are done.
>
>

I've just remembered two precedents for this on Manchester Metrolink -
Pomona was finished and opened despite being pretty much middle of nowhere
(an awkward walk to a retail park was the only thing, IIRC - which I did to
purchase a VCR); nearby Cornbrook was opened but only as an interchange
between lines for the first six years (though I think I did exit there when
I found the emergency exit doors vandalised and open!).

Anna Noyd-Dryver

I visited Brent Cross Town again last week, and went for a wander. Here's some pictures:

<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72177720314113013/>

As you can see, for all the greenwash claims of it being a park town, it will actually be a densely packed development
of medium and high rise buildings, fringed by two thin strips of parkland. There are existing playing fields (which may
get new facilities) and allotments just outside the new development.

Another exaggerated claim is that it's 12 minutes by train to Kings Cross (it's actually 15 minutes to SPILL) and there
are direct trains to Gatwick (the direct Gatwick trains actually non-stop the new station, so Gatwick passengers need to
change in the TL core).

There's quite a good model in The Pavilion (the sales suite), which has representations of the various buildings. The
ones shown in detail are either already under construction, or due to start imminently. Others shown as simple wooden
models will follow, but may differ in detail from their model. Other future building plots are represented by simple
flat wooden plinths (some of these future building plots currently have existing, occupied buildings, whose inhabitants
will be moved to the new buildings).

This report shows that the neighbours weren't thrilled to hear about the developments planned for the existing
Clitterhouse Playing Fields:

https://www.times-series.co.uk/news/23839803.brent-cross-clitterhouse-playing-fields-scheme-gets-go-ahead/

Our universities are hooked on foreign fees. What’s the solution?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ee5af964-0834-4f8c-8bcb-5d7acf0e3b0f?shareToken=5dfd87da6273599e1469f0b631e27cac

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Our universities are hooked on foreign fees. What’s the solution?
>
> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ee5af964-0834-4f8c-8bcb-5d7acf0e3b0f?shareToken=5dfd87da6273599e1469f0b631e27cac
>

Decide what your policy is and stick to it. If as a government you thought
£9250 was the correct level of domestic tuition fees make sure that rate is
index linked. If you regret your past policy publish a new one.

Higher education is, with the odd exception, one of the few things we are
quite good at. Current government (lack of) policy seems intent on
destroying that.