Sales of EVs are slowing - despite the Biden Administration's push for eco
cars
Consumers have complained about a lack of charging infrastructure in the
US
READ MORE: Americans reveal what they REALLY think of their electric cars

Ex-automotive executives have said America's electric vehicle push
happened 'too soon and too fast', amid slumping EV sales.

Former Ford, Chrysler and General Motors executive Bob Lutz said that the
drive toward electric cars needed to be gradual, and vehicle charging
times and the charging infrastructure across the US have been major issues
in widespread adoption.

'We all agreed that the EV revolution was not going to take place, and
instead what we would have is an EV evolution,' Lutz said in an interview
with Fox Business.

Sales of electric cars are slowing, with Tesla reporting its first year-
on-year sales drop since 2020 earlier this month.

The automaker delivered 386,810 vehicles in the first three months of the
year, down almost 9 percent from the same period in 2023.

While EV sales grew last year to make up a 6.9 percent share of new
vehicles in the US - up from 5.2 percent in 2022 - Edmunds predicts this
rate of growth will decrease this year.

The car research site sees EVs making up just 8 percent of the market
share in 2024. In some major cities last year, EVs made up just 3 percent
of new car registrations.

Lutz told Fox Business: 'The problem with the whole EV movement is that
there was a colossal amount of hype behind it, largely from what I like to
call the liberal mainstream media, making it sound like everybody's next
vehicle was going to be an EV.

'And of course, the government was pushing it, because of their climate
change policies. And it just plain wasn't going to happen.'

To lower tailpipe emissions, the Biden administration has set out a target
to gradually phase out gas cars by 2032.

The federal legislation requires automakers to reduce the tailpipe
emissions of new vehicles by around 50 percent from model year 2026 to
2032.

But many consumers have complained how a lack of charging stations in
rural areas mean that owning an EV is an unrealistic goal for many.

Ex-Chrysler Chairman and CEO Bob Nardelli told the outlet that building
the infrastructure needed to support electric vehicles needs to be a high
priority.

Nardelli, who was the CEO of Chrysler for two years between 2007 and 2009,
added: 'The focus on hybrids would have been well-placed as an evolution
towards EV.

'It would have allowed for charging stations and it would have allowed for
the massive grid network to bolster their base supply to be able to absorb
this.'

Lutz countered this argument by pointing out that hybrids were in fact
introduced to drivers before Tesla came in with a fully-electric car.

'Tesla came out with all-electric, and all-electric was much more
appealing to the environmentally-oriented people and wealthy liberals with
a social-change mindset on both the west coast and east coast of the US.
And they bought Teslas like they were going out of style,' he said.

Although he admitted hybrids are expensive, he said they are a good in-
between step.

'For the immediate future, that's the way electrification is going,' he
added.

It comes after Edmunds data released last month revealed hybrid cars are
being snapped up three times as quickly off dealer lots than electric cars
- and twice as quickly as gas cars.

In February this year, hybrids typically flew off dealer lots within 25
days, Edmunds found, while electric vehicles took an average of 72 days.
Gas-powered cars, meanwhile, typically sold after 52 days.

Hybrid vehicles also overtook fully electric and gas cars to lead the way
in this year's closely-watched Consumer Reports' top car rankings.

Separate research released earlier this month revealed that manufacturers
like Ford, GM and Toyota are not meeting the expectations of EV shoppers
in four key areas - putting them off from purchasing the cars.

Shoppers want lower prices, higher ranges, electric SUVs and cars rather
than the trucks automakers have focused on, and more EVs from trusted
brands like Toyota, according to a poll by Edmunds.

There is a wide gap between what car shoppers want, and what is actually
on sale, it found.

'The electric vehicle market is growing, but consumers have enough
reservations about the current options and charging infrastructure
challenges to limit more significant growth in the short term,' said
Jessica Caldwell, head of insight at Edmunds.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/electric-vehicles/article-
13311175/electric-vehicle-push-ford-executive-hybrids.html

On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 01:52:45 -0000 (UTC), Cal Worthington
<and.his@dog.spot> wrote:

<https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/electric-vehicles/article-13311175/electric-vehicle-push-ford-executive-hybrids.html>
https://t.ly/zviiX
America's electric vehicle push happened 'too soon and too fast,' warn
ex-auto executives - but former Big Three boss Bob Lutz insists
hybrids ARE the future
--
Petzl
<https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/trump-israel-hamas/2023/10/08/id/1137485/>
https://tinyurl.com/yld563fs
just watch the video on how WWIII is being started because of
Joe Biden's enforcing his bogus, lying climate change propaganda

Petzl wrote on 25/4/24 4:24 pm:
> On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 01:52:45 -0000 (UTC), Cal Worthington
> <and.his@dog.spot> wrote:
>
> <https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/electric-vehicles/article-13311175/electric-vehicle-push-ford-executive-hybrids.html>
> https://t.ly/zviiX
> America's electric vehicle push happened 'too soon and too fast,' warn
> ex-auto executives - but former Big Three boss Bob Lutz insists
> hybrids ARE the future

I'd have to worry about the "former Big Three boss" comment. WHAT??
Wasn't he good enough for any of them to want to hang on to him??
--
Daniel

"Cal Worthington" <and.his@dog.spot> wrote in message
news:v0cd1d$493$1@toxic.dizum.net...
> Sales of EVs are slowing - despite the Biden Administration's push for eco
> cars
> Consumers have complained about a lack of charging infrastructure in the
> US
> READ MORE: Americans reveal what they REALLY think of their electric cars
>
> Ex-automotive executives have said America's electric vehicle push
> happened 'too soon and too fast', amid slumping EV sales.

Basically, anything the government gets involved in becomes a disaster. Once
the federal money dries up.. so will the bulk of interest in EVs.

IOW, let the free market do it's thing. When the time is right, people will
buy because they want to. Those that don't, most probably have good reasons
for why an EV doesn't suit their needs yet.

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
news:v0dbka$2v08d$2@dont-email.me:

>
>
> "Cal Worthington" <and.his@dog.spot> wrote in message
> news:v0cd1d$493$1@toxic.dizum.net...
>> Sales of EVs are slowing - despite the Biden Administration's push
>> for eco cars
>> Consumers have complained about a lack of charging infrastructure in
>> the US
>> READ MORE: Americans reveal what they REALLY think of their electric
>> cars
>>
>> Ex-automotive executives have said America's electric vehicle push
>> happened 'too soon and too fast', amid slumping EV sales.
>
> Basically, anything the government gets involved in becomes a
> disaster.

Nope. That's propaganda - started by Reagan.

Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote in
news:jktj2jlqpj0tb6tloutcab2046cmad8h1a@4ax.com:

> On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 01:52:45 -0000 (UTC), Cal Worthington
> <and.his@dog.spot> wrote:
>
> <https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/electric-vehicles/article-133111
> 75/electric-vehicle-push-ford-executive-hybrids.html>
> https://t.ly/zviiX
> America's electric vehicle push happened 'too soon and too fast,' warn
> ex-auto executives - but former Big Three boss Bob Lutz insists
> hybrids ARE the future
> --
> Petzl
> <https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/trump-israel-hamas/2023/10/08/id/113
> 7485/> https://tinyurl.com/yld563fs
> just watch the video on how WWIII is being started because of
> Joe Biden's enforcing his bogus, lying climate change propaganda
>

Norway: all-electric vehicles made up 80% of passenger vehicle sales in
2022

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
news:v0dbka$2v08d$2@dont-email.me:

>
>
> "Cal Worthington" <and.his@dog.spot> wrote in message
> news:v0cd1d$493$1@toxic.dizum.net...
>> Sales of EVs are slowing - despite the Biden Administration's push
>> for eco cars
>> Consumers have complained about a lack of charging infrastructure in
>> the US
>> READ MORE: Americans reveal what they REALLY think of their electric
>> cars
>>
>> Ex-automotive executives have said America's electric vehicle push
>> happened 'too soon and too fast', amid slumping EV sales.
>
> Basically, anything the government gets involved in becomes a
> disaster. Once the federal money dries up.. so will the bulk of
> interest in EVs.
>
> IOW, let the free market do it's thing. When the time is right, people
> will buy because they want to. Those that don't, most probably have
> good reasons for why an EV doesn't suit their needs yet.
>

Is the Interstate Highway system a "disaster"? Is the Space program a
"disaster"?

[Default] Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> typed:

>Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:jktj2jlqpj0tb6tloutcab2046cmad8h1a@4ax.com:
>
>> On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 01:52:45 -0000 (UTC), Cal Worthington
>> <and.his@dog.spot> wrote:
>>
>> <https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/electric-vehicles/article-133111
>> 75/electric-vehicle-push-ford-executive-hybrids.html>
>> https://t.ly/zviiX
>> America's electric vehicle push happened 'too soon and too fast,' warn
>> ex-auto executives - but former Big Three boss Bob Lutz insists
>> hybrids ARE the future
>> --
>> Petzl
>> <https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/trump-israel-hamas/2023/10/08/id/113
>> 7485/> https://tinyurl.com/yld563fs
>> just watch the video on how WWIII is being started because of
>> Joe Biden's enforcing his bogus, lying climate change propaganda
>>
>
>Norway: all-electric vehicles made up 80% of passenger vehicle sales in
>2022

Norway has a road network of 57,754 mi.

That's ALMOST as many miles of roads as Wyoming!

LOL

[Default] Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> typed:

>"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>news:v0dbka$2v08d$2@dont-email.me:
>
>>
>>
>> "Cal Worthington" <and.his@dog.spot> wrote in message
>> news:v0cd1d$493$1@toxic.dizum.net...
>>> Sales of EVs are slowing - despite the Biden Administration's push
>>> for eco cars
>>> Consumers have complained about a lack of charging infrastructure in
>>> the US
>>> READ MORE: Americans reveal what they REALLY think of their electric
>>> cars
>>>
>>> Ex-automotive executives have said America's electric vehicle push
>>> happened 'too soon and too fast', amid slumping EV sales.
>>
>> Basically, anything the government gets involved in becomes a
>> disaster.
>
>Nope.

Yup.

Klaus Schadenfreude <klaus.schadenfreude.Zwergent�ter.@gmail.com> wrote
in
news:d5sk2jp7uilvojsfrbvgmbmkiadn4b08ss@Rudy.Canoza.is.a.forging.cocksuck
ing.dwarf.com:

> [Default] Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> typed:
>
>>"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>news:v0dbka$2v08d$2@dont-email.me:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Cal Worthington" <and.his@dog.spot> wrote in message
>>> news:v0cd1d$493$1@toxic.dizum.net...
>>>> Sales of EVs are slowing - despite the Biden Administration's push
>>>> for eco cars
>>>> Consumers have complained about a lack of charging infrastructure in
>>>> the US
>>>> READ MORE: Americans reveal what they REALLY think of their electric
>>>> cars
>>>>
>>>> Ex-automotive executives have said America's electric vehicle push
>>>> happened 'too soon and too fast', amid slumping EV sales.
>>>
>>> Basically, anything the government gets involved in becomes a
>>> disaster.
>>
>>Nope.
>
> Yup.

Private Enterprise hates to compete against government.

On 25 Apr 2024, Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> posted some
news:v0dqcq$325s1$1@dont-email.me:

> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:jktj2jlqpj0tb6tloutcab2046cmad8h1a@4ax.com:
>
>> On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 01:52:45 -0000 (UTC), Cal Worthington
>> <and.his@dog.spot> wrote:
>>
>> <https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/electric-vehicles/article-13311
>> 1 75/electric-vehicle-push-ford-executive-hybrids.html>
>> https://t.ly/zviiX
>> America's electric vehicle push happened 'too soon and too fast,'
>> warn ex-auto executives - but former Big Three boss Bob Lutz insists
>> hybrids ARE the future
>> --
>> Petzl
>> <https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/trump-israel-hamas/2023/10/08/id/11
>> 3 7485/> https://tinyurl.com/yld563fs
>> just watch the video on how WWIII is being started because of
>> Joe Biden's enforcing his bogus, lying climate change propaganda
>>
>
> Norway: all-electric vehicles made up 80% of passenger vehicle sales
> in 2022

Consider the average Norwegian drives 8,000 miles per year.

Norway gets near 90% of it's energy from hydropower. They also have to
buy electric blankets to keep the car batteries warm and put up with 20-
30% less range because of cold.

"Baxter" <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote in message
news:v0dqcq$325s1$1@dont-email.me...
> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:jktj2jlqpj0tb6tloutcab2046cmad8h1a@4ax.com:
>
>> On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 01:52:45 -0000 (UTC), Cal Worthington
>> <and.his@dog.spot> wrote:
>>
>> <https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/electric-vehicles/article-133111
>> 75/electric-vehicle-push-ford-executive-hybrids.html>
>> https://t.ly/zviiX
>> America's electric vehicle push happened 'too soon and too fast,' warn
>> ex-auto executives - but former Big Three boss Bob Lutz insists
>> hybrids ARE the future
>> --
>> Petzl
>> <https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/trump-israel-hamas/2023/10/08/id/113
>> 7485/> https://tinyurl.com/yld563fs
>> just watch the video on how WWIII is being started because of
>> Joe Biden's enforcing his bogus, lying climate change propaganda
>>
>
> Norway: all-electric vehicles made up 80% of passenger vehicle sales in
> 2022

Yes, and how much would the sell WITHOUT all the government tax breaks,
incentives and mandates?

IOW, how much is the government effectively paying people to buy an EV?

Now tell me.. why should I pay more in taxes because YOU want an EV?

"So I flew across the Atlantic to see what the fuss was about. I discovered
a Norwegian EV bonanza that has indeed reduced emissions - but at the
expense of compromising vital societal goals. Eye-popping EV subsidies have
flowed largely to the affluent, contributing to the gap between rich and
poor in a country proud of its egalitarian social policies.

Worse, the EV boom has hobbled Norwegian cities' efforts to untether
themselves from the automobile and enable residents to instead travel by
transit or bicycle, decisions that do more to reduce emissions, enhance road
safety, and enliven urban life than swapping a gas-powered car for an
electric one.

Despite the hosannas from abroad, Norway's government has begun to unwind
some of its electrification subsidies in order to mitigate the downsides of
no-holds-barred EV promotion."

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23939076/norway-electric-vehicle-cars-evs-tesla-oslo

"Baxter" <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote in message
news:v0dqeo$325s1$2@dont-email.me...
> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> news:v0dbka$2v08d$2@dont-email.me:
>
>>
>>
>> "Cal Worthington" <and.his@dog.spot> wrote in message
>> news:v0cd1d$493$1@toxic.dizum.net...
>>> Sales of EVs are slowing - despite the Biden Administration's push
>>> for eco cars
>>> Consumers have complained about a lack of charging infrastructure in
>>> the US
>>> READ MORE: Americans reveal what they REALLY think of their electric
>>> cars
>>>
>>> Ex-automotive executives have said America's electric vehicle push
>>> happened 'too soon and too fast', amid slumping EV sales.
>>
>> Basically, anything the government gets involved in becomes a
>> disaster.
>
> Nope. That's propaganda - started by Reagan.

So homelessness, poverty, crime, illegal immigration, and lower standards of
living are just 'propaganda'?

In news:v0e5cf$34oi0$1@dont-email.me, Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com>
typed:

> Private Enterprise hates to compete against government.

Well, DUH! Who wants a competitor with bottomless pockets?

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
news:v0e83d$35cl5$1@dont-email.me:

>
>
> "Baxter" <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote in message
> news:v0dqcq$325s1$1@dont-email.me...
>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:jktj2jlqpj0tb6tloutcab2046cmad8h1a@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 01:52:45 -0000 (UTC), Cal Worthington
>>> <and.his@dog.spot> wrote:
>>>
>>> <https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/electric-vehicles/article-1331
>>> 11 75/electric-vehicle-push-ford-executive-hybrids.html>
>>> https://t.ly/zviiX
>>> America's electric vehicle push happened 'too soon and too fast,'
>>> warn ex-auto executives - but former Big Three boss Bob Lutz insists
>>> hybrids ARE the future
>>> --
>>> Petzl
>>> <https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/trump-israel-hamas/2023/10/08/id/1
>>> 13 7485/> https://tinyurl.com/yld563fs
>>> just watch the video on how WWIII is being started because of
>>> Joe Biden's enforcing his bogus, lying climate change propaganda
>>>
>>
>> Norway: all-electric vehicles made up 80% of passenger vehicle sales
>> in 2022
>
> Yes, and how much would the sell WITHOUT all the government tax
> breaks, incentives and mandates?
>
> IOW, how much is the government effectively paying people to buy an
> EV?
>
> Now tell me.. why should I pay more in taxes because YOU want an EV?
>
> "So I flew across the Atlantic to see what the fuss was about. I
> discovered a Norwegian EV bonanza that has indeed reduced emissions -
> but at the expense of compromising vital societal goals. Eye-popping
> EV subsidies have flowed largely to the affluent, contributing to the
> gap between rich and poor in a country proud of its egalitarian social
> policies.
>
> Worse, the EV boom has hobbled Norwegian cities' efforts to untether
> themselves from the automobile and enable residents to instead travel
> by transit or bicycle, decisions that do more to reduce emissions,
> enhance road safety, and enliven urban life than swapping a
> gas-powered car for an electric one.
>
> Despite the hosannas from abroad, Norway's government has begun to
> unwind some of its electrification subsidies in order to mitigate the
> downsides of no-holds-barred EV promotion."
>
> https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23939076/norway-electric-vehicle-car
> s-evs-tesla-oslo
>
that's propaganda when it says electric vehicles don't reduce emissions.

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
news:v0e83e$35cl5$2@dont-email.me:

>
>
> "Baxter" <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote in message
> news:v0dqeo$325s1$2@dont-email.me...
>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>> news:v0dbka$2v08d$2@dont-email.me:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Cal Worthington" <and.his@dog.spot> wrote in message
>>> news:v0cd1d$493$1@toxic.dizum.net...
>>>> Sales of EVs are slowing - despite the Biden Administration's push
>>>> for eco cars
>>>> Consumers have complained about a lack of charging infrastructure
>>>> in the US
>>>> READ MORE: Americans reveal what they REALLY think of their
>>>> electric cars
>>>>
>>>> Ex-automotive executives have said America's electric vehicle push
>>>> happened 'too soon and too fast', amid slumping EV sales.
>>>
>>> Basically, anything the government gets involved in becomes a
>>> disaster.
>>
>> Nope. That's propaganda - started by Reagan.
>
> So homelessness, poverty, crime, illegal immigration, and lower
> standards of living are just 'propaganda'?
>
In the 50's and 60's we had high taxes and lots of government involvement
- and we reduced all those things until Reagan came along declaring
"government is the problem" and cut government funding and involvement.

ward kotten <nospam@gmail.com> wrote in news:662a9e07_1
@news.gallaxial.com:

> On 25 Apr 2024, Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> posted some
> news:v0dqcq$325s1$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:jktj2jlqpj0tb6tloutcab2046cmad8h1a@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 01:52:45 -0000 (UTC), Cal Worthington
>>> <and.his@dog.spot> wrote:
>>>
>>> <https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/electric-vehicles/article-
13311
>>> 1 75/electric-vehicle-push-ford-executive-hybrids.html>
>>> https://t.ly/zviiX
>>> America's electric vehicle push happened 'too soon and too fast,'
>>> warn ex-auto executives - but former Big Three boss Bob Lutz insists
>>> hybrids ARE the future
>>> --
>>> Petzl
>>> <https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/trump-israel-
hamas/2023/10/08/id/11
>>> 3 7485/> https://tinyurl.com/yld563fs
>>> just watch the video on how WWIII is being started because of
>>> Joe Biden's enforcing his bogus, lying climate change propaganda
>>>
>>
>> Norway: all-electric vehicles made up 80% of passenger vehicle sales
>> in 2022
>
> Consider the average Norwegian drives 8,000 miles per year.
>
> Norway gets near 90% of it's energy from hydropower. They also have to
> buy electric blankets to keep the car batteries warm and put up with
20-
> 30% less range because of cold.
>

China buys more electric vehicles than the rest of the world combined and
has the largest road network in the world.

"max headroom" <maximusheadroom@gmx.com> wrote in
news:v0eapg$35v6s$2@dont-email.me:

> In news:v0e5cf$34oi0$1@dont-email.me, Baxter
> <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> typed:
>
>> Private Enterprise hates to compete against government.
>
> Well, DUH! Who wants a competitor with bottomless pockets?
>
How can government have "bottomless pockets" when they don't tax the rich?

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
news:v0e83e$35cl5$2@dont-email.me:

>
>
> "Baxter" <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote in message
> news:v0dqeo$325s1$2@dont-email.me...
>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>> news:v0dbka$2v08d$2@dont-email.me:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Cal Worthington" <and.his@dog.spot> wrote in message
>>> news:v0cd1d$493$1@toxic.dizum.net...
>>>> Sales of EVs are slowing - despite the Biden Administration's push
>>>> for eco cars
>>>> Consumers have complained about a lack of charging infrastructure
>>>> in the US
>>>> READ MORE: Americans reveal what they REALLY think of their
>>>> electric cars
>>>>
>>>> Ex-automotive executives have said America's electric vehicle push
>>>> happened 'too soon and too fast', amid slumping EV sales.
>>>
>>> Basically, anything the government gets involved in becomes a
>>> disaster.
>>
>> Nope. That's propaganda - started by Reagan.
>
> So homelessness, poverty, crime, illegal immigration, and lower
> standards of living are just 'propaganda'?
>
=============
�Government Is the Solution, Not the Problem�

A social policy professor, praising the stimulus bill, disagrees with the
famous statement by Ronald Reagan that �government is the problem,� not
the solution.

....
Seventy-five percent of Americans, including 59 percent of Republicans,
who support the American Rescue Plan think he [Biden] got it right!
Government is the solution, not the problem.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/21/opinion/letters/government-role.html

On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 14:46:51 -0000 (UTC)
Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote:

> Norway: all-electric vehicles made up 80% of passenger vehicle sales
> in 2022

Which has decimated their national transport.

https://blog.gorozen.com/blog/the-norwegian-illusion

Norway is one of the wealthiest countries in the world, with a per capita GDP of $106,000 in 2022. Despite its impressive wealth, the government must still financially incentivize its citizens to purchase EVs.

The benefits are starting to take their toll on Norway’s finances. At nearly $4 billion annually, Norway spends as much on EV subsidies as on total highway and public infrastructure maintenance. The program has also raised significant issues around equality in Norway. EV subsidies favor high-income urban citizens, who take advantage of free tolls, parking, and charging and avoid the onerous tax on larger luxury vehicles. Several populist-leaning political groups in Norway have made so-called “elitist” EV subsidies a focal point of their platform.

Amid growing scrutiny, the government has actively sought to reduce several subsidies. Municipal parking is no longer free, and passengers (although not the vehicles themselves) are subject to certain tolls. The government also introduced a partial purchase tax on new EVs. Proponents have warned that any rollback of subsidies will surely harm EV penetration and offer Sweden as a case study, where, in 2022, the elimination of several subsidies precipitated a 20% drop in EV sales.

More important, EVs in Norway have not affected fossil fuel demand or carbon emissions as expected. Although oil demand and carbon emissions have fallen by 15% since 2010, most of this is unrelated to EV sales. Over the period, total oil demand fell by only 34,000 b/d, with gasoline and diesel making up a mere 10% of the decline. Most of the decline came from heating, lighting, and petrochemical demand, which we estimate collapsed by more than a third. Despite 20% of all vehicles on the road now being electric, Norway’s gasoline and diesel demand fell by a mere 4%.

Our data suggests that Norwegians are reluctant to give up their ICE vehicles, even after purchasing an EV. We calculate that two-thirds of Norway’s EV households own at least one ICE vehicle. From 2010 to 2022, Norway added 550,000 EVs, but the number of ICE vehicles on the road, rather than falling, increased by 32,630. While the population grew by 11%, the total number of passenger cars grew by 25%. When an EV household prefers to avoid a road or ferry toll, have access to free parking or charging, or avoid congestion by using bus lanes, they use their EV. When they visit their hytte in the mountains, they use their ICE. The impact has been so material that advocates have lobbied for a government-funded ICE scrappage program,- another veiled EV subsidy.

Unsurprisingly, electricity demand has surged as Norway shifted from
fossil fuels to electricity for transportation, heating, and lighting.
Since 2010, Norwegian electricity demand rose an impressive 20%. Total
primary demand for all forms of energy increased by 5%. The data
suggests that a widespread shift to EVs did little to reduce overall
energy consumption despite claims they are far more efficient.

We estimate an average EV consumes 60 MWh to manufacture, of which the battery represents half. Therefore, manufacturing Norway’s 579,000 EVs (all the EVs on the road today in Norway) requires 35 twh, equivalent to 25% of the total annual Norwegian electricity demand. Given that China emits 600 grams of CO2 per kwh (China is where almost all of Noway’s EV batteries are manufactured), we calculate Norway’s EV fleet would emit 21 mm tonnes of CO2. Norway’s gasoline and diesel consumption fell by a meager 3,200 barrels per day or 50 mm gallons per year. Assuming 9 kg of CO2 per gallon of gasoline or diesel, Norway’s entire EV fleet mitigates a mere 450,000 tonnes of CO2 per year, compared with an upfront emission of 21 mm tonnes. In other words, it would take forty-five years of CO2 savings from reduced gasoline and diesel consumption to offset the initial emissions from the manufacturing of the vehicles. Since an EV battery has a useful life of only ten to fifteen years, it is clear that Norway’s EV rollout has increased total lifecycle CO2 emissions dramatically.. Incredibly, this is true despite Norway having the lowest carbon hydroelectricity in the world. Even if China were to reach its overly ambitious targets for wind, solar, and nuclear power by 2035, we calculate that the carbon “payback” would still exceed twenty years. Realistically, the only way for EVs to reduce lifecycle carbon emissions would be with a widespread move to carbon-free energy in EV manufacturing. Most EV advocates hope renewable energy will be the solution. Unfortunately, we do not believe this will prove feasible due to their inferior energy efficiency.

Instead of serving as a model, Norway’s program should warn of the
unintended consequences of large-scale EV penetration, particularly
when consumers purchase an EV in addition to an ICE. Countless articles
claim EVs are far more energy efficient than ICE vehicles. Moreover,
these authors argue EVs will be more efficient and more carbon-free
once renewables replace coal and natural gas. Our analysis, unpopular
and controversial, suggests the opposite.

On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 14:47:52 -0000 (UTC)
Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote:

> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> news:v0dbka$2v08d$2@dont-email.me:
>
> >
> >
> > "Cal Worthington" <and.his@dog.spot> wrote in message
> > news:v0cd1d$493$1@toxic.dizum.net...
> >> Sales of EVs are slowing - despite the Biden Administration's push
> >> for eco cars
> >> Consumers have complained about a lack of charging infrastructure
> >> in the US
> >> READ MORE: Americans reveal what they REALLY think of their
> >> electric cars
> >>
> >> Ex-automotive executives have said America's electric vehicle push
> >> happened 'too soon and too fast', amid slumping EV sales.
> >
> > Basically, anything the government gets involved in becomes a
> > disaster.
>
> Nope. That's propaganda - started by Reagan.

Reality - started by Woodrow Wilson.

On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 14:49:18 -0000 (UTC)
Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote:

> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> news:v0dbka$2v08d$2@dont-email.me:
>
> >
> >
> > "Cal Worthington" <and.his@dog.spot> wrote in message
> > news:v0cd1d$493$1@toxic.dizum.net...
> >> Sales of EVs are slowing - despite the Biden Administration's push
> >> for eco cars
> >> Consumers have complained about a lack of charging infrastructure
> >> in the US
> >> READ MORE: Americans reveal what they REALLY think of their
> >> electric cars
> >>
> >> Ex-automotive executives have said America's electric vehicle push
> >> happened 'too soon and too fast', amid slumping EV sales.
> >
> > Basically, anything the government gets involved in becomes a
> > disaster. Once the federal money dries up.. so will the bulk of
> > interest in EVs.
> >
> > IOW, let the free market do it's thing. When the time is right,
> > people will buy because they want to. Those that don't, most
> > probably have good reasons for why an EV doesn't suit their needs
> > yet.
>
> Is the Interstate Highway system a "disaster"?

Just slightly!

https://tripnet.org/reports/interstate-system-national-news-release-06-22-2021/

AT 65 YEARS OLD, U.S. INTERSTATE SYSTEM IS HEAVILY TRAVELED, CONGESTED
AND DETERIORATING; CONGRESSIONALLY REQUESTED REPORT FINDS THAT MOST OF
INTERSTATE SYSTEM NEEDS TO BE RECONSTRUCTED AND MODERNIZED, REQUIRING
MORE THAN A DOUBLING OF CURRENT FUNDING

> Is the Space program a "disaster"?

It was sold off to Bezos and Musk, clownshow.

On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 17:54:23 -0000 (UTC)
Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote:

> Klaus Schadenfreude <klaus.schadenfreude.Zwergent_ter.@gmail.com>
> wrote in
> news:d5sk2jp7uilvojsfrbvgmbmkiadn4b08ss@Rudy.Canoza.is.a.forging.cocksuck
> ing.dwarf.com:
>
> > [Default] Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> typed:
> >
> >>"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> >>news:v0dbka$2v08d$2@dont-email.me:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "Cal Worthington" <and.his@dog.spot> wrote in message
> >>> news:v0cd1d$493$1@toxic.dizum.net...
> >>>> Sales of EVs are slowing - despite the Biden Administration's
> >>>> push for eco cars
> >>>> Consumers have complained about a lack of charging
> >>>> infrastructure in the US
> >>>> READ MORE: Americans reveal what they REALLY think of their
> >>>> electric cars
> >>>>
> >>>> Ex-automotive executives have said America's electric vehicle
> >>>> push happened 'too soon and too fast', amid slumping EV sales.
> >>>
> >>> Basically, anything the government gets involved in becomes a
> >>> disaster.
> >>
> >>Nope.
> >
> > Yup.
>
> Private Enterprise hates to compete against government.

Cuz it can't - totalitarianism rigs the game.

On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 19:58:37 -0000 (UTC)
Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote:

> that's propaganda when it says electric vehicles don't reduce
> emissions.

Is it?

https://blog.gorozen.com/blog/the-norwegian-illusion

EVs in Norway have not affected fossil fuel demand or carbon emissions
as expected. Although oil demand and carbon emissions have fallen by
15% since 2010, most of this is unrelated to EV sales. Over the period,
total oil demand fell by only 34,000 b/d, with gasoline and diesel
making up a mere 10% of the decline. Most of the decline came from
heating, lighting, and petrochemical demand, which we estimate
collapsed by more than a third. Despite 20% of all vehicles on the road
now being electric, Norway’s gasoline and diesel demand fell by a mere
4%.

Unsurprisingly, electricity demand has surged as Norway shifted from
fossil fuels to electricity for transportation, heating, and lighting.
Since 2010, Norwegian electricity demand rose an impressive 20%. Total
primary demand for all forms of energy increased by 5%. The data
suggests that a widespread shift to EVs did little to reduce overall
energy consumption despite claims they are far more efficient.

We estimate an average EV consumes 60 MWh to manufacture, of which the
battery represents half. Therefore, manufacturing Norway’s 579,000 EVs
(all the EVs on the road today in Norway) requires 35 twh, equivalent
to 25% of the total annual Norwegian electricity demand. Given that
China emits 600 grams of CO2 per kwh (China is where almost all of
Noway’s EV batteries are manufactured), we calculate Norway’s EV fleet
would emit 21 mm tonnes of CO2. Norway’s gasoline and diesel
consumption fell by a meager 3,200 barrels per day or 50 mm gallons per
year. Assuming 9 kg of CO2 per gallon of gasoline or diesel, Norway’s
entire EV fleet mitigates a mere 450,000 tonnes of CO2 per year,
compared with an upfront emission of 21 mm tonnes. In other words, it
would take forty-five years of CO2 savings from reduced gasoline and
diesel consumption to offset the initial emissions from the
manufacturing of the vehicles. Since an EV battery has a useful life of
only ten to fifteen years, it is clear that Norway’s EV rollout has
increased total lifecycle CO2 emissions dramatically. Incredibly, this
is true despite Norway having the lowest carbon hydroelectricity in the
world. Even if China were to reach its overly ambitious targets for
wind, solar, and nuclear power by 2035, we calculate that the carbon
“payback” would still exceed twenty years.

On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 20:00:32 -0000 (UTC)
Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote:

> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> news:v0e83e$35cl5$2@dont-email.me:
>
> >
> >
> > "Baxter" <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote in message
> > news:v0dqeo$325s1$2@dont-email.me...
> >> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> >> news:v0dbka$2v08d$2@dont-email.me:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "Cal Worthington" <and.his@dog.spot> wrote in message
> >>> news:v0cd1d$493$1@toxic.dizum.net...
> >>>> Sales of EVs are slowing - despite the Biden Administration's
> >>>> push for eco cars
> >>>> Consumers have complained about a lack of charging infrastructure
> >>>> in the US
> >>>> READ MORE: Americans reveal what they REALLY think of their
> >>>> electric cars
> >>>>
> >>>> Ex-automotive executives have said America's electric vehicle
> >>>> push happened 'too soon and too fast', amid slumping EV sales.
> >>>
> >>> Basically, anything the government gets involved in becomes a
> >>> disaster.
> >>
> >> Nope. That's propaganda - started by Reagan.
> >
> > So homelessness, poverty, crime, illegal immigration, and lower
> > standards of living are just 'propaganda'?
> >
> In the 50's and 60's we had high taxes and lots of government
> involvement
> - and we reduced all those things

No we did not.

If we had why would LBJ have foisted the "Great society" scam upon us?

> until Reagan came along declaring
> "government is the problem" and cut government funding and
> involvement.

Yeah, no big statist FDR was he!