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tech / sci.astro.amateur / Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal

SubjectAuthor
* India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signalChris L Peterson
`* India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signalW
 `* India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signalChris L Peterson
  `* India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signalW
   `* India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signalChris L Peterson
    +* India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signalW
    |`* India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signalChris L Peterson
    | `* India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signalW
    |  `* India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signalChris L Peterson
    |   `- India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signalW
    `* India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signalpalsing
     `* India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signalW
      `* India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signalpalsing
       `- India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signalW

1
Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal

<fev0hido1s5tr671djedilthpha8acg7h2@4ax.com>

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From: clp@alumni.caltech.edu (Chris L Peterson)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal
Message-ID: <fev0hido1s5tr671djedilthpha8acg7h2@4ax.com>
References: <03b3a75f-27a2-487e-a8ef-1a9c47bc712fn@googlegroups.com>
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 by: Chris L Peterson - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 18:20 UTC

On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 17:10:40 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rander3128@gmail.com>
wrote:

>India has lots of plutonium. Canadian idiot politicians saw to that. Too bad no RTGs...
>
>https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-66893924

No reason the panels should be a problem. And RTGs require the same
batteries.

Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal

<44fc5aa3-3556-4a55-a617-4bfee0f184fcn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal
From: wsnell01@hotmail.com (W)
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 by: W - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 12:54 UTC

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:20:31 PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 17:10:40 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >India has lots of plutonium. Canadian idiot politicians saw to that. Too bad no RTGs...
> >
> >https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-66893924
> No reason the panels should be a problem. And RTGs require the same
> batteries.

The RTGs would keep the batteries and other vulnerable parts warm enough.

Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal

<s0n5hi56c60fobmrij39ian7pfa1bblqks@4ax.com>

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From: clp@alumni.caltech.edu (Chris L Peterson)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal
Message-ID: <s0n5hi56c60fobmrij39ian7pfa1bblqks@4ax.com>
References: <03b3a75f-27a2-487e-a8ef-1a9c47bc712fn@googlegroups.com> <fev0hido1s5tr671djedilthpha8acg7h2@4ax.com> <44fc5aa3-3556-4a55-a617-4bfee0f184fcn@googlegroups.com>
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 by: Chris L Peterson - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 13:28 UTC

On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 05:54:07 -0700 (PDT), W <wsnell01@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:20:31?PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 17:10:40 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >India has lots of plutonium. Canadian idiot politicians saw to that. Too bad no RTGs...
>> >
>> >https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-66893924
>> No reason the panels should be a problem. And RTGs require the same
>> batteries.
>
>The RTGs would keep the batteries and other vulnerable parts warm enough.

The sort of batteries used these days are not damaged by cold. They
simply become inefficient at delivering power when cold. So in an
environment where they will naturally warm again, and a mission plan
that does not require major operations in the cold, there is no
problem.

Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal

<1bc5bc4d-2dd7-4c3d-9f97-495d5293868dn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal
From: wsnell01@hotmail.com (W)
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 by: W - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 14:15 UTC

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 9:28:32 AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 05:54:07 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:20:31?PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> >> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 17:10:40 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >India has lots of plutonium. Canadian idiot politicians saw to that. Too bad no RTGs...
> >> >
> >> >https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-66893924
> >> No reason the panels should be a problem. And RTGs require the same
> >> batteries.
> >
> >The RTGs would keep the batteries and other vulnerable parts warm enough..
> The sort of batteries used these days are not damaged by cold. They
> simply become inefficient at delivering power when cold. So in an
> environment where they will naturally warm again, and a mission plan
> that does not require major operations in the cold, there is no
> problem.

Nope. The temps encountered during the lunar night can wreck almost anything, including "the sort of batteries used these days."

There will not be enough "juice" in the batteries to keep other vulnerable parts warm enough.

Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal

<rdr5hihvauikqi3aq1dqatdgeod1m5l8n5@4ax.com>

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From: clp@alumni.caltech.edu (Chris L Peterson)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal
Message-ID: <rdr5hihvauikqi3aq1dqatdgeod1m5l8n5@4ax.com>
References: <03b3a75f-27a2-487e-a8ef-1a9c47bc712fn@googlegroups.com> <fev0hido1s5tr671djedilthpha8acg7h2@4ax.com> <44fc5aa3-3556-4a55-a617-4bfee0f184fcn@googlegroups.com> <s0n5hi56c60fobmrij39ian7pfa1bblqks@4ax.com> <1bc5bc4d-2dd7-4c3d-9f97-495d5293868dn@googlegroups.com>
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 by: Chris L Peterson - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 14:45 UTC

On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 07:15:29 -0700 (PDT), W <wsnell01@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 9:28:32?AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 05:54:07 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:20:31?PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 17:10:40 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >India has lots of plutonium. Canadian idiot politicians saw to that. Too bad no RTGs...
>> >> >
>> >> >https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-66893924
>> >> No reason the panels should be a problem. And RTGs require the same
>> >> batteries.
>> >
>> >The RTGs would keep the batteries and other vulnerable parts warm enough.
>> The sort of batteries used these days are not damaged by cold. They
>> simply become inefficient at delivering power when cold. So in an
>> environment where they will naturally warm again, and a mission plan
>> that does not require major operations in the cold, there is no
>> problem.
>
>Nope. The temps encountered during the lunar night can wreck almost anything, including "the sort of batteries used these days."
>
>There will not be enough "juice" in the batteries to keep other vulnerable parts warm enough.

As usual you have no idea what you are talking about. Cold damages
very little. There was almost certainly nothing in the craft that
would sustain permanent damage from those temperatures.

In any case, they had no option. Rich's hard-on for RTGs was not an
option, since launching them requires following a lot of international
treaty laws (fortunately!) which would have dramatically increased the
cost of the mission. And as the mission plan only required one
daylight operation cycle, the mission goals were achieved.

Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal

<a358d51a-3c2f-4d50-81d8-fc63cd34700bn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal
From: wsnell01@hotmail.com (W)
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 by: W - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 15:15 UTC

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 10:45:19 AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 07:15:29 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 9:28:32?AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> >> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 05:54:07 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:20:31?PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> >> >> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 17:10:40 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >India has lots of plutonium. Canadian idiot politicians saw to that. Too bad no RTGs...
> >> >> >
> >> >> >https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-66893924
> >> >> No reason the panels should be a problem. And RTGs require the same
> >> >> batteries.
> >> >
> >> >The RTGs would keep the batteries and other vulnerable parts warm enough.
> >> The sort of batteries used these days are not damaged by cold. They
> >> simply become inefficient at delivering power when cold. So in an
> >> environment where they will naturally warm again, and a mission plan
> >> that does not require major operations in the cold, there is no
> >> problem.
> >
> >Nope. The temps encountered during the lunar night can wreck almost anything, including "the sort of batteries used these days."
> >
> >There will not be enough "juice" in the batteries to keep other vulnerable parts warm enough.
> As usual you have no idea what you are talking about. Cold damages
> very little. There was almost certainly nothing in the craft that
> would sustain permanent damage from those temperatures.

As ALWAYS you have no idea what you are talking about!

The Indian lander is no longer working. It used batteries and solar.

The Chinese equipment DID have radioisotope energy and survived the lunar night because of that.

You inability to use logic is quite evident. Your inability to understand facts is even more evident.

Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal

<8a44b2d3-1004-49b2-a573-7557863c2d6cn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal
From: pnalsing@gmail.com (palsing)
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 by: palsing - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 16:42 UTC

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 7:45:19 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 07:15:29 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 9:28:32?AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> >> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 05:54:07 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:20:31?PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> >> >> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 17:10:40 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >India has lots of plutonium. Canadian idiot politicians saw to that. Too bad no RTGs...
> >> >> >
> >> >> >https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-66893924
> >> >> No reason the panels should be a problem. And RTGs require the same
> >> >> batteries.
> >> >
> >> >The RTGs would keep the batteries and other vulnerable parts warm enough.
> >> The sort of batteries used these days are not damaged by cold. They
> >> simply become inefficient at delivering power when cold. So in an
> >> environment where they will naturally warm again, and a mission plan
> >> that does not require major operations in the cold, there is no
> >> problem.
> >
> >Nope. The temps encountered during the lunar night can wreck almost anything, including "the sort of batteries used these days."
> >
> >There will not be enough "juice" in the batteries to keep other vulnerable parts warm enough.
> As usual you have no idea what you are talking about. Cold damages
> very little. There was almost certainly nothing in the craft that
> would sustain permanent damage from those temperatures.
>
> In any case, they had no option. Rich's hard-on for RTGs was not an
> option, since launching them requires following a lot of international
> treaty laws (fortunately!) which would have dramatically increased the
> cost of the mission. And as the mission plan only required one
> daylight operation cycle, the mission goals were achieved.

Apparently, this mission was not designed to survive the lunar night...

https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/isros-chandrayaan-3-confronts-cold-lunar-odds-heres-why

.... and they "chose not to equip these robotic pioneers with the commonly used radioisotope heater units (RHUs)."

Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal

<bv26hidrmhe4v3ie01mlc4q3294kc0d6i2@4ax.com>

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From: clp@alumni.caltech.edu (Chris L Peterson)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal
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 by: Chris L Peterson - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 16:51 UTC

On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), W <wsnell01@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 10:45:19?AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 07:15:29 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 9:28:32?AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 05:54:07 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:20:31?PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>> >> >> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 17:10:40 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >India has lots of plutonium. Canadian idiot politicians saw to that. Too bad no RTGs...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-66893924
>> >> >> No reason the panels should be a problem. And RTGs require the same
>> >> >> batteries.
>> >> >
>> >> >The RTGs would keep the batteries and other vulnerable parts warm enough.
>> >> The sort of batteries used these days are not damaged by cold. They
>> >> simply become inefficient at delivering power when cold. So in an
>> >> environment where they will naturally warm again, and a mission plan
>> >> that does not require major operations in the cold, there is no
>> >> problem.
>> >
>> >Nope. The temps encountered during the lunar night can wreck almost anything, including "the sort of batteries used these days."
>> >
>> >There will not be enough "juice" in the batteries to keep other vulnerable parts warm enough.
>> As usual you have no idea what you are talking about. Cold damages
>> very little. There was almost certainly nothing in the craft that
>> would sustain permanent damage from those temperatures.
>
>As ALWAYS you have no idea what you are talking about!
>
>The Indian lander is no longer working. It used batteries and solar.
>
>The Chinese equipment DID have radioisotope energy and survived the lunar night because of that.
>
>You inability to use logic is quite evident. Your inability to understand facts is even more evident.

It wasn't intended to survive the night. By design.

Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal

<dbeb2785-fbbb-4881-af59-76677e3d2e4cn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal
From: wsnell01@hotmail.com (W)
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 by: W - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 18:26 UTC

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 12:51:18 PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 10:45:19?AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> >> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 07:15:29 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 9:28:32?AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> >> >> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 05:54:07 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:20:31?PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> >> >> >> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 17:10:40 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >India has lots of plutonium. Canadian idiot politicians saw to that. Too bad no RTGs...
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-66893924
> >> >> >> No reason the panels should be a problem. And RTGs require the same
> >> >> >> batteries.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >The RTGs would keep the batteries and other vulnerable parts warm enough.
> >> >> The sort of batteries used these days are not damaged by cold. They
> >> >> simply become inefficient at delivering power when cold. So in an
> >> >> environment where they will naturally warm again, and a mission plan
> >> >> that does not require major operations in the cold, there is no
> >> >> problem.
> >> >
> >> >Nope. The temps encountered during the lunar night can wreck almost anything, including "the sort of batteries used these days."
> >> >
> >> >There will not be enough "juice" in the batteries to keep other vulnerable parts warm enough.
> >> As usual you have no idea what you are talking about. Cold damages
> >> very little. There was almost certainly nothing in the craft that
> >> would sustain permanent damage from those temperatures.
> >
> >As ALWAYS you have no idea what you are talking about!
> >
> >The Indian lander is no longer working. It used batteries and solar.
> >
> >The Chinese equipment DID have radioisotope energy and survived the lunar night because of that.
> >
> >You inability to use logic is quite evident. Your inability to understand facts is even more evident.
> It wasn't intended to survive the night. By design.

You just used circular reasoning. That is to be expected from you.

Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal

<b8d0a243-96c5-4164-9d08-566ec61758e7n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal
From: wsnell01@hotmail.com (W)
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 by: W - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 18:33 UTC

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 12:42:50 PM UTC-4, palsing wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 7:45:19 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> > On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 07:15:29 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 9:28:32?AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> > >> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 05:54:07 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:20:31?PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> > >> >> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 17:10:40 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >> >India has lots of plutonium. Canadian idiot politicians saw to that. Too bad no RTGs...
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-66893924
> > >> >> No reason the panels should be a problem. And RTGs require the same
> > >> >> batteries.
> > >> >
> > >> >The RTGs would keep the batteries and other vulnerable parts warm enough.
> > >> The sort of batteries used these days are not damaged by cold. They
> > >> simply become inefficient at delivering power when cold. So in an
> > >> environment where they will naturally warm again, and a mission plan
> > >> that does not require major operations in the cold, there is no
> > >> problem.
> > >
> > >Nope. The temps encountered during the lunar night can wreck almost anything, including "the sort of batteries used these days."
> > >
> > >There will not be enough "juice" in the batteries to keep other vulnerable parts warm enough.
> > As usual you have no idea what you are talking about. Cold damages
> > very little. There was almost certainly nothing in the craft that
> > would sustain permanent damage from those temperatures.
> >
> > In any case, they had no option. Rich's hard-on for RTGs was not an
> > option, since launching them requires following a lot of international
> > treaty laws (fortunately!) which would have dramatically increased the
> > cost of the mission. And as the mission plan only required one
> > daylight operation cycle, the mission goals were achieved.
> Apparently, this mission was not designed to survive the lunar night...
>
> https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/isros-chandrayaan-3-confronts-cold-lunar-odds-heres-why
>
> ... and they "chose not to equip these robotic pioneers with the commonly used radioisotope heater units (RHUs)."

The mission planners did not "choose not to use" radioistopes, they could not AFFORD to.

Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal

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Subject: Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal
From: pnalsing@gmail.com (palsing)
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 by: palsing - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 21:14 UTC

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 11:34:01 AM UTC-7, W wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 12:42:50 PM UTC-4, palsing wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 7:45:19 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> > > On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 07:15:29 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 9:28:32?AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> > > >> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 05:54:07 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> >On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:20:31?PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> > > >> >> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 17:10:40 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rande...@gmail..com>
> > > >> >> wrote:
> > > >> >> >India has lots of plutonium. Canadian idiot politicians saw to that. Too bad no RTGs...
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-66893924
> > > >> >> No reason the panels should be a problem. And RTGs require the same
> > > >> >> batteries.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >The RTGs would keep the batteries and other vulnerable parts warm enough.
> > > >> The sort of batteries used these days are not damaged by cold. They
> > > >> simply become inefficient at delivering power when cold. So in an
> > > >> environment where they will naturally warm again, and a mission plan
> > > >> that does not require major operations in the cold, there is no
> > > >> problem.
> > > >
> > > >Nope. The temps encountered during the lunar night can wreck almost anything, including "the sort of batteries used these days."
> > > >
> > > >There will not be enough "juice" in the batteries to keep other vulnerable parts warm enough.
> > > As usual you have no idea what you are talking about. Cold damages
> > > very little. There was almost certainly nothing in the craft that
> > > would sustain permanent damage from those temperatures.
> > >
> > > In any case, they had no option. Rich's hard-on for RTGs was not an
> > > option, since launching them requires following a lot of international
> > > treaty laws (fortunately!) which would have dramatically increased the
> > > cost of the mission. And as the mission plan only required one
> > > daylight operation cycle, the mission goals were achieved.
> > Apparently, this mission was not designed to survive the lunar night...
> >
> > https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/isros-chandrayaan-3-confronts-cold-lunar-odds-heres-why
> >
> > ... and they "chose not to equip these robotic pioneers with the commonly used radioisotope heater units (RHUs)."

> The mission planners did not "choose not to use" radioistopes, they could not AFFORD to.

You are clearly making this up. From the article I referenced...

"... ISRO has remained silent on why Chandrayaan-3 lacks these heating elements"

You might be correct but then again, you might be incorrect.

Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal

<lkl6hi9eag0ap35vckovcpms79j8puug1f@4ax.com>

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From: clp@alumni.caltech.edu (Chris L Peterson)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal
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 by: Chris L Peterson - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 22:09 UTC

On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 11:26:40 -0700 (PDT), W <wsnell01@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 12:51:18?PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 10:45:19?AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 07:15:29 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 9:28:32?AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>> >> >> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 05:54:07 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:20:31?PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 17:10:40 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >India has lots of plutonium. Canadian idiot politicians saw to that. Too bad no RTGs...
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-66893924
>> >> >> >> No reason the panels should be a problem. And RTGs require the same
>> >> >> >> batteries.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >The RTGs would keep the batteries and other vulnerable parts warm enough.
>> >> >> The sort of batteries used these days are not damaged by cold. They
>> >> >> simply become inefficient at delivering power when cold. So in an
>> >> >> environment where they will naturally warm again, and a mission plan
>> >> >> that does not require major operations in the cold, there is no
>> >> >> problem.
>> >> >
>> >> >Nope. The temps encountered during the lunar night can wreck almost anything, including "the sort of batteries used these days."
>> >> >
>> >> >There will not be enough "juice" in the batteries to keep other vulnerable parts warm enough.
>> >> As usual you have no idea what you are talking about. Cold damages
>> >> very little. There was almost certainly nothing in the craft that
>> >> would sustain permanent damage from those temperatures.
>> >
>> >As ALWAYS you have no idea what you are talking about!
>> >
>> >The Indian lander is no longer working. It used batteries and solar.
>> >
>> >The Chinese equipment DID have radioisotope energy and survived the lunar night because of that.
>> >
>> >You inability to use logic is quite evident. Your inability to understand facts is even more evident.
>> It wasn't intended to survive the night. By design.
>
>You just used circular reasoning. That is to be expected from you.

You don't know what circular reasoning is, either.

Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal

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Subject: Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal
From: wsnell01@hotmail.com (W)
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 by: W - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 22:40 UTC

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 6:09:51 PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 11:26:40 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 12:51:18?PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> >> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 10:45:19?AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> >> >> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 07:15:29 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 9:28:32?AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 05:54:07 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:20:31?PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> >> >> >> >> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 17:10:40 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>
> >> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >India has lots of plutonium. Canadian idiot politicians saw to that. Too bad no RTGs...
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-66893924
> >> >> >> >> No reason the panels should be a problem. And RTGs require the same
> >> >> >> >> batteries.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >The RTGs would keep the batteries and other vulnerable parts warm enough.
> >> >> >> The sort of batteries used these days are not damaged by cold. They
> >> >> >> simply become inefficient at delivering power when cold. So in an
> >> >> >> environment where they will naturally warm again, and a mission plan
> >> >> >> that does not require major operations in the cold, there is no
> >> >> >> problem.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Nope. The temps encountered during the lunar night can wreck almost anything, including "the sort of batteries used these days."
> >> >> >
> >> >> >There will not be enough "juice" in the batteries to keep other vulnerable parts warm enough.
> >> >> As usual you have no idea what you are talking about. Cold damages
> >> >> very little. There was almost certainly nothing in the craft that
> >> >> would sustain permanent damage from those temperatures.
> >> >
> >> >As ALWAYS you have no idea what you are talking about!
> >> >
> >> >The Indian lander is no longer working. It used batteries and solar.
> >> >
> >> >The Chinese equipment DID have radioisotope energy and survived the lunar night because of that.
> >> >
> >> >You inability to use logic is quite evident. Your inability to understand facts is even more evident.
> >> It wasn't intended to survive the night. By design.
> >
> >You just used circular reasoning. That is to be expected from you.
> You don't know what circular reasoning is, either.

I recognize that you are using circular reasoning. You are unaware of what you are doing.

Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal

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Subject: Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal
From: wsnell01@hotmail.com (W)
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 by: W - Tue, 26 Sep 2023 22:48 UTC

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 5:14:21 PM UTC-4, palsing wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 11:34:01 AM UTC-7, W wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 12:42:50 PM UTC-4, palsing wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 7:45:19 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 07:15:29 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 9:28:32?AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> > > > >> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 05:54:07 -0700 (PDT), W <wsne...@hotmail.com>
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >> >On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:20:31?PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> > > > >> >> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 17:10:40 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>
> > > > >> >> wrote:
> > > > >> >> >India has lots of plutonium. Canadian idiot politicians saw to that. Too bad no RTGs...
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-66893924
> > > > >> >> No reason the panels should be a problem. And RTGs require the same
> > > > >> >> batteries.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >The RTGs would keep the batteries and other vulnerable parts warm enough.
> > > > >> The sort of batteries used these days are not damaged by cold. They
> > > > >> simply become inefficient at delivering power when cold. So in an
> > > > >> environment where they will naturally warm again, and a mission plan
> > > > >> that does not require major operations in the cold, there is no
> > > > >> problem.
> > > > >
> > > > >Nope. The temps encountered during the lunar night can wreck almost anything, including "the sort of batteries used these days."
> > > > >
> > > > >There will not be enough "juice" in the batteries to keep other vulnerable parts warm enough.
> > > > As usual you have no idea what you are talking about. Cold damages
> > > > very little. There was almost certainly nothing in the craft that
> > > > would sustain permanent damage from those temperatures.
> > > >
> > > > In any case, they had no option. Rich's hard-on for RTGs was not an
> > > > option, since launching them requires following a lot of international
> > > > treaty laws (fortunately!) which would have dramatically increased the
> > > > cost of the mission. And as the mission plan only required one
> > > > daylight operation cycle, the mission goals were achieved.
> > > Apparently, this mission was not designed to survive the lunar night....
> > >
> > > https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/isros-chandrayaan-3-confronts-cold-lunar-odds-heres-why
> > >
> > > ... and they "chose not to equip these robotic pioneers with the commonly used radioisotope heater units (RHUs)."
>
> > The mission planners did not "choose not to use" radioistopes, they could not AFFORD to.
> You are clearly making this up. From the article I referenced...
>
> "... ISRO has remained silent on why Chandrayaan-3 lacks these heating elements"
>
> You might be correct but then again, you might be incorrect.

It has been clear from the beginning that this mission was done on the cheap, even to the point of their bragging about it.

China spent only a little more on a properly-equipped spacecraft that worked far longer as a result.

tech / sci.astro.amateur / Re: India's rover let-down by solar panels and batteries? No signal

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