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tech / sci.astro.amateur / Re: This is not the correct explanation for Mercury in retrograde motion

SubjectAuthor
* This is not the correct explanation for Mercury in retrograde motionGerald Kelleher
+* This is not the correct explanation for Mercury in retrograde motionpalsing
|`- This is not the correct explanation for Mercury in retrograde motionGerald Kelleher
`* This is not the correct explanation for Mercury in retrograde motionChris L Peterson
 `- This is not the correct explanation for Mercury in retrograde motionGerald Kelleher

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This is not the correct explanation for Mercury in retrograde motion

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Subject: This is not the correct explanation for Mercury in retrograde motion
From: kelleher.gerald@gmail.com (Gerald Kelleher)
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 by: Gerald Kelleher - Wed, 30 Aug 2023 08:22 UTC

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8r5PHKJMfw0

That explanation which uses a fixed star background for direct/retrograde motions is incorrect. With nearly 10 million views, it may satisfy those who are not familiar with the new framework where the central Sun is the fixed reference for the motions of Earth, Venus and Mercury rather than the fixed background stars.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is the Earth's orbital motion alone which sets the Sun up as a fixed reference. Whereas the Ptolemaic framework on which the original Sun-centred researchers based their conclusions as a hypothesis, the tracking satellites allow observers to interpret solar system structure directly by taking account of the Earth's orbital motion through the change in the position of the stars from left to right of the stationary Sun (at a solar system level).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2uCtot1aDg

It is a complicated and larger version of the motions of Jupiter's moons as they run back and forth around their parent planet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcrBAuLBXag

All made possible for a tracking satellite and as much an advancement as the invention of a telescope itself as it permits observations, interpretations and conclusions from a standpoint free from daily rotational influences.

Re: This is not the correct explanation for Mercury in retrograde motion

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Subject: Re: This is not the correct explanation for Mercury in retrograde motion
From: pnalsing@gmail.com (palsing)
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 by: palsing - Thu, 31 Aug 2023 00:10 UTC

On Wednesday, August 30, 2023 at 1:22:39 AM UTC-7, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8r5PHKJMfw0
>
> That explanation which uses a fixed star background for direct/retrograde motions is incorrect. With nearly 10 million views, it may satisfy those who are not familiar with the new framework where the central Sun is the fixed reference for the motions of Earth, Venus and Mercury rather than the fixed background stars.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> It is the Earth's orbital motion alone which sets the Sun up as a fixed reference. Whereas the Ptolemaic framework on which the original Sun-centred researchers based their conclusions as a hypothesis, the tracking satellites allow observers to interpret solar system structure directly by taking account of the Earth's orbital motion through the change in the position of the stars from left to right of the stationary Sun (at a solar system level).
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2uCtot1aDg
>
> It is a complicated and larger version of the motions of Jupiter's moons as they run back and forth around their parent planet.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcrBAuLBXag
>
> All made possible for a tracking satellite and as much an advancement as the invention of a telescope itself as it permits observations, interpretations and conclusions from a standpoint free from daily rotational influences.

I saw zero background stars on that graphic... but I did see a fixed Sun. What have you been smoking, Gerald?

Re: This is not the correct explanation for Mercury in retrograde motion

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Subject: Re: This is not the correct explanation for Mercury in retrograde motion
From: kelleher.gerald@gmail.com (Gerald Kelleher)
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 by: Gerald Kelleher - Thu, 31 Aug 2023 07:46 UTC

This is not good enough by far, for although the modification is not as big as the difference between a geocentric to a Sun-centred system by accounting for the direct/retrograde motions of the slower-moving planets, it is a bigger modification than Kepler's variable orbital speeds without diminishing that conclusion. There is nothing there that has not been covered over the last decade so the only hold-up is transmitting the information to a wider audience where the motions of Venus and Mercury are accounted for differently through a number of demonstrations-

1. A new way to demonstrate the Earth orbits the Sun using a tracking satellite
2. A new framework where the position of the stars moves from left (evening appearance) to right (morning appearance) of the fixed heliostatic reference.
3. What is seen as the precession of the Equinoxes in the Ptolemaic system is an extension of the calendar correction in the new framework.
4. The direct/retrograde motions of Venus and Mercury are a result of their own back-and-forth motions around the Sun
5. The seasons are accounted for by a combination of rotations within the new framework

Presently, Mercury will come within range of the camera on the Earth-tracking satellite in retrograde motion. It will be seen to move faster than the change of the position of the stars as, naturally, it moves faster than the Earth-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2uCtot1aDg

Once again, from the start, an open approach has been taken to presenting the observations, interpretation and conclusions involved and that remains the case for this Christian.

Re: This is not the correct explanation for Mercury in retrograde motion

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From: clp@alumni.caltech.edu (Chris L Peterson)
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Subject: Re: This is not the correct explanation for Mercury in retrograde motion
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 by: Chris L Peterson - Thu, 31 Aug 2023 13:59 UTC

On Wed, 30 Aug 2023 01:22:36 -0700 (PDT), Gerald Kelleher
<kelleher.gerald@gmail.com> wrote:

>https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8r5PHKJMfw0
>
>That explanation which uses a fixed star background for direct/retrograde motions is incorrect. With nearly 10 million views, it may satisfy those who are not familiar with the new framework where the central Sun is the fixed reference for the motions of Earth, Venus and Mercury rather than the fixed background stars.

All the planets in the Solar System are in prograde orbits, without
exception. And they don't change.

Re: This is not the correct explanation for Mercury in retrograde motion

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Subject: Re: This is not the correct explanation for Mercury in retrograde motion
From: kelleher.gerald@gmail.com (Gerald Kelleher)
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 by: Gerald Kelleher - Thu, 31 Aug 2023 14:42 UTC

Suppose the situation was normal and genuine solar system researchers were present. In that case, the issue is that although all planets ( wanderers) display direct/retrograde motion against the background stars, the resolutions depend on whether those planets are moving faster or slower than the Earth.

The baseline for the framework where the stars change their position from left to right as a consequence of the Earth's orbital motion and therefore parallel to the orbital plane permits the partitioning of direct/retrogrades within the new framework.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/a3CN-jGiZ6Q

Mercury and Jupiter are in direct motion as they are seen to move in the same direction behind the Sun although they appear to be heading in opposite directions. The reason being that Mercury moves faster than the Earth so overcomes the influence of the slower-moving Earth as it moves in its true motion from right to left while Jupiter is also moving from right to left. It is seen to move from left to right because Jupiter's motion is slower than Earth's.

Direct/retrograde motion has specific meaning depending on whether a planet moves faster or slower than the Earth. Venus is in retrograde motion when it passes between the slower-moving Earth and the stationary Sun as its observed motion is faster than the change in the position of the stars from left to right-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHc7sdq48wc

In the Ptolemaic framework, this retrograde motion would give the appearance similar to the slower moving planets but from a different cause, in this case, it's faster motion than that of the Earth. This is why, at the level of Copernicus they did not make a distinction whereas presently, that distinction is absolutely necessary-

" Now what is said here of Jupiter is to be understood of Saturn and Mars also. In Saturn, these retrogressions are somewhat more frequent than in Jupiter, because its motion is slower than Jupiter's so that the Earth overtakes it in a shorter time. In Mars they are rarer, its motion being faster than that of Jupiter, so that the Earth spends more time in catching up with it. Next, as to Venus and Mercury, whose circles are included within that of the Earth, stoppings and retrograde motions appear in them also, due not to any motion that really exists in them, but to the annual motion of the Earth. This is acutely demonstrated by Copernicus . . .

You see, gentlemen, with what ease and simplicity the annual motion -- if made by the Earth -- lends itself to supplying reasons for the apparent anomalies which are observed in the movements of the five planets. . . . It removes them all and reduces these movements to equable and regular motions, and it was Nicholas Copernicus who first clarified for us the reasons for this marvellous effect." 1632, Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems

I can't account for dull people who can't handle the narrative and can be left to their own devices, however, the perceptive ability to discern the difference in direct/retrogrades between the faster and slower moving planets seen from a moving Earth is within reach of most high school or college students.


tech / sci.astro.amateur / Re: This is not the correct explanation for Mercury in retrograde motion

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