[ Crossposting to news.admin.net-abuse.usenet ]

On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 04:33:17 -0700 (PDT)
J Stressman <jstressman@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 5:46:33 PM UTC-4, Jim Breen wrote:
> > Any ideas on how to stop the flood of Thai spam?
>
> Who has the moderation ability in this group to actually delete spam? If
> one of us normally reports it, it will hide it from the person who reports
> it, but not anyone else in the room. Google might look into it further, but
> there's no guarantee anything else will happen.
>
> Someone with moderation ability should be able to actually delete these
> messages from the group, but without Google taking action to actually block
> these accounts, it would seem to require constant moderation to clear out
> the spam.

First things first : usenet is *** not *** googlegroups. googlegroups simply
provides a web interface to usenet.

sci.lang.japan is unmoderated. Even with a moderated newsgroup , after a
message gets approved by the moderator , it gets transmitted to many servers
around the world. Each server has its own filtering policies and only the
administrator of that particular server can delete messages , for whatever
reason. The original approving moderator no longer can affect the decision.

The right place to discuss usenet spam is news.admin.net-abuse.usenet and
indeed there have been dozens of posts on the issue in the last few weeks. I
note that sci.lang.japan is not the worst hit group.

But many people also raise the issue on some of the affected groups , either
because they don't know of the existence of news.admin.net-abuse.usenet or
because they are reluctant to venture beyond their usual usenet hang-outs.
This is a poor state of affairs because it means that the same discussions
get repeated again and again on many different groups (and it's off-topic for
most of them) and the transmission of useful information happens a lot more
slowly than it could otherwise.

I will summarise here the conclusions for the residents of sci.lang.japan ;
regular readers of news.admin.net-abuse.usenet won't learn anything new.

googlegroups seems to be abandonware and reports of spam using the
googlegroups facility have at most as a result to hide the spam from the user
who did the reporting when they are logged in to their Google account ; but
there don't seem to be in operation any googlegroups filters which get
trained by the reporting so that they prevent any new spam from being
injected. So reporting the spam through googlegroups is mostly a waste of
time. I don't expect this will change.

The only solution for people who use googlegroups to access usenet (or
sci.lang.japan in particular) is to switch to using a newsreader. Advice on
that can be had from news.software.readers .Most newsreaders offer filtering
facilities and using those it should be easy to remove most of the spam. But
even without using those , some servers already filter most of the spam. For
example news.i2pn2.org (but it occasionally goes too far ; for example it
has filtered the opening post of this thread).

Whether sci.lang.japan is going to die depends on various factors. The
group doesn't get many legitimate posts anyway. From the few it gets , my
estimate is that around 40% of the posters use googlegroups. If they are
willing to do the extra effort now and switch to using a newsreader , the
group will continue to do no worse (and possibly no better) than it does
now. If they can't be bothered to switch to using a newsreader , they may
eventually simply get fed up and stop using the group altogether. Even then
, sci.lang.japan won't die but it will be worse off. Naturally , I hope they
will choose the first option.

> https://support.google.com/a/users/answer/9792297?hl=en
>
> I've reported literally thousands of the spam messages in this group lately,
> and I don't think it's accomplished much of anything. I'm open to ideas.

Many people over the years have. They have all said that it's a waste of
time.

--
If you plan on watching this stoned, go ahead, it'll be magnificent.
https://www.imdb.com/review/rw9362053/

In article <KFko=svzezKy2O9s3@bongo-ra.co>,
Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> wrote:
>[ Crossposting to news.admin.net-abuse.usenet ]
>
>On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 04:33:17 -0700 (PDT)
>J Stressman <jstressman@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 5:46:33 PM UTC-4, Jim Breen wrote:
>> > Any ideas on how to stop the flood of Thai spam?
>>
>> Who has the moderation ability in this group to actually delete spam? If
>> one of us normally reports it, it will hide it from the person who reports
>> it, but not anyone else in the room. Google might look into it further, but
>> there's no guarantee anything else will happen.
>>
>> Someone with moderation ability should be able to actually delete these
>> messages from the group, but without Google taking action to actually block
>> these accounts, it would seem to require constant moderation to clear out
>> the spam.
>
>First things first : usenet is *** not *** googlegroups. googlegroups simply
>provides a web interface to usenet.
>
>sci.lang.japan is unmoderated. Even with a moderated newsgroup , after a
>message gets approved by the moderator , it gets transmitted to many servers
>around the world. Each server has its own filtering policies and only the
>administrator of that particular server can delete messages , for whatever
>reason. The original approving moderator no longer can affect the decision.
>
>The right place to discuss usenet spam is news.admin.net-abuse.usenet and
>indeed there have been dozens of posts on the issue in the last few weeks. I
>note that sci.lang.japan is not the worst hit group.
>
>But many people also raise the issue on some of the affected groups , either
>because they don't know of the existence of news.admin.net-abuse.usenet or
>because they are reluctant to venture beyond their usual usenet hang-outs.
>This is a poor state of affairs because it means that the same discussions
>get repeated again and again on many different groups (and it's off-topic for
>most of them) and the transmission of useful information happens a lot more
>slowly than it could otherwise.
>
>I will summarise here the conclusions for the residents of sci.lang.japan ;
>regular readers of news.admin.net-abuse.usenet won't learn anything new.
>
>googlegroups seems to be abandonware and reports of spam using the
>googlegroups facility have at most as a result to hide the spam from the user
>who did the reporting when they are logged in to their Google account ; but
>there don't seem to be in operation any googlegroups filters which get
>trained by the reporting so that they prevent any new spam from being
>injected. So reporting the spam through googlegroups is mostly a waste of
>time. I don't expect this will change.
>
>The only solution for people who use googlegroups to access usenet (or
>sci.lang.japan in particular) is to switch to using a newsreader. Advice on
>that can be had from news.software.readers .Most newsreaders offer filtering
>facilities and using those it should be easy to remove most of the spam. But
>even without using those , some servers already filter most of the spam. For
>example news.i2pn2.org (but it occasionally goes too far ; for example it
>has filtered the opening post of this thread).
>
>Whether sci.lang.japan is going to die depends on various factors. The
>group doesn't get many legitimate posts anyway. From the few it gets , my
>estimate is that around 40% of the posters use googlegroups. If they are
>willing to do the extra effort now and switch to using a newsreader , the
>group will continue to do no worse (and possibly no better) than it does
>now. If they can't be bothered to switch to using a newsreader , they may
>eventually simply get fed up and stop using the group altogether. Even then
>, sci.lang.japan won't die but it will be worse off. Naturally , I hope they
>will choose the first option.
>
>> https://support.google.com/a/users/answer/9792297?hl=en
>>
>> I've reported literally thousands of the spam messages in this group lately,
>> and I don't think it's accomplished much of anything. I'm open to ideas.
>
>Many people over the years have. They have all said that it's a waste of
>time.
>

Is this like comp.arch or comp.lang.c?

>--
>If you plan on watching this stoned, go ahead, it'll be magnificent.
> https://www.imdb.com/review/rw9362053/

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
When pride is the most valuable thing, then the life will be misery. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 14:41:20 -0000 (UTC)
doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
> Is this like comp.arch or comp.lang.c?

I'm not sure what you're asking. If the question is whether the spam on
sci.lang.japan is as bad as it is on comp.arch or comp.lang.c , I
don't know. Try the groups through a server which doesn't seem to filter
the spam (news.cyber23.de doesn't seem to do so) and with your own filters
off and you can form your own opinion.

In article <RJZgNzzq7otMBCT65@bongo-ra.co>,
Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 14:41:20 -0000 (UTC)
>doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>> Is this like comp.arch or comp.lang.c?
>
>I'm not sure what you're asking. If the question is whether the spam on
>sci.lang.japan is as bad as it is on comp.arch or comp.lang.c , I
>don't know. Try the groups through a server which doesn't seem to filter
>the spam (news.cyber23.de doesn't seem to do so) and with your own filters
>off and you can form your own opinion.

I am blocking GG on my server so I might have to use GG :-(
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
When pride is the most valuable thing, then the life will be misery. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 14:55:43 -0000 (UTC)
doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
> In article <RJZgNzzq7otMBCT65@bongo-ra.co>,
> Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 14:41:20 -0000 (UTC)
> >doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
> >> Is this like comp.arch or comp.lang.c?
> >
> >I'm not sure what you're asking. If the question is whether the spam on
> >sci.lang.japan is as bad as it is on comp.arch or comp.lang.c , I
> >don't know. Try the groups through a server which doesn't seem to filter
> >the spam (news.cyber23.de doesn't seem to do so) and with your own filters
> >off and you can form your own opinion.
>
> I am blocking GG on my server so I might have to use GG :-(

So don't use your server , use news.cyber23.de .If you have w3m installed
then a quick way is

w3m -o nntpserver=news.cyber23.de news:sci.lang.japan

..You can switch to different groups from within w3m .If you prefer lynx ,
you can do

lynx news://news.cyber23.de/sci.lang.japan

On 23/10/2023 15:41, The Doctor wrote:

> Is this [sci.lang.japan] like comp.arch or comp.lang.c?

From a quick look: Yes - basically adverts for 'slots' gambling sites.

Spiros Bousbouras a présenté l'énoncé suivant :
> [ Crossposting to news.admin.net-abuse.usenet ]

> I will summarise here the conclusions for the residents of sci.lang.japan ;
> regular readers of news.admin.net-abuse.usenet won't learn anything new.
>
> googlegroups seems to be abandonware and reports of spam using the
> googlegroups facility have at most as a result to hide the spam from the user
> who did the reporting when they are logged in to their Google account ; but
> there don't seem to be in operation any googlegroups filters which get
> trained by the reporting so that they prevent any new spam from being
> injected. So reporting the spam through googlegroups is mostly a waste of
> time. I don't expect this will change.
>
> The only solution for people who use googlegroups to access usenet (or
> sci.lang.japan in particular) is to switch to using a newsreader. Advice on
> that can be had from news.software.readers .Most newsreaders offer filtering
> facilities and using those it should be easy to remove most of the spam. But
> even without using those , some servers already filter most of the spam. For
> example news.i2pn2.org (but it occasionally goes too far ; for example it
> has filtered the opening post of this thread).
>
> Whether sci.lang.japan is going to die depends on various factors. The
> group doesn't get many legitimate posts anyway. From the few it gets , my
> estimate is that around 40% of the posters use googlegroups. If they are
> willing to do the extra effort now and switch to using a newsreader , the
> group will continue to do no worse (and possibly no better) than it does
> now. If they can't be bothered to switch to using a newsreader , they may
> eventually simply get fed up and stop using the group altogether. Even then
> , sci.lang.japan won't die but it will be worse off. Naturally , I hope they
> will choose the first option.
>
>> https://support.google.com/a/users/answer/9792297?hl=en
>>
>> I've reported literally thousands of the spam messages in this group lately,
>> and I don't think it's accomplished much of anything. I'm open to ideas.
>
> Many people over the years have. They have all said that it's a waste of
> time.

Use a server with a clean sci.lang.japan.

In news.admin.net-abuse.usenet The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:

> Is this like comp.arch or comp.lang.c?

If it's Thai then probably like pl.soc.polityka. It's getting spammed in
large amounts in some Asian language. Spamassassin on E-S (propagated with
NoCeMs) catches many such posts, but some still get through. I took a look
at sci.lang.japan and it looks similar to what's on pl.soc.polityka.

The rule to remove these messages should be simple (just detect some
characters from that alphabet in subject, that's one thing these posts
have in common) and some posters already do it on their side. I'll play
with it on my server. I'll check if these posts have References or not. If
not, then I'll probably make a rule to exclude posts with References from
the filter (to avoid killing a post if a legitimate poster responds to a
spam -- it's not advisable, but shouldn't be punishable).

Note to Google Groups users from SLJ: you should consider installing a
newsreader (a program for reading Usenet) and getting access to one of
newsservers (many are free, run by volunteers, and some even don't require
any registration). Then at least you'll be able to filter these messages
with a rule in the newsreader program (if they're not already filtered on
the server you choose). If you don't find a suitable server, let us know
in this thread (many newsadmins read the group this message was
crossposted to).

I have a feeling that Google Groups will be killed one day anyway (to the
great relief of many newsadmins), like many other Google products before
them.

In article <uh7237$hfd$5$arnold@news.chmurka.net>,
Adam W. <gof-cut-this-news@cut-this-chmurka.net.invalid> wrote:
>In news.admin.net-abuse.usenet The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> Is this like comp.arch or comp.lang.c?
>
>If it's Thai then probably like pl.soc.polityka. It's getting spammed in
>large amounts in some Asian language. Spamassassin on E-S (propagated with
>NoCeMs) catches many such posts, but some still get through. I took a look
>at sci.lang.japan and it looks similar to what's on pl.soc.polityka.
>
>The rule to remove these messages should be simple (just detect some
>characters from that alphabet in subject, that's one thing these posts
>have in common) and some posters already do it on their side. I'll play
>with it on my server. I'll check if these posts have References or not. If
>not, then I'll probably make a rule to exclude posts with References from
>the filter (to avoid killing a post if a legitimate poster responds to a
>spam -- it's not advisable, but shouldn't be punishable).
>
>Note to Google Groups users from SLJ: you should consider installing a
>newsreader (a program for reading Usenet) and getting access to one of
>newsservers (many are free, run by volunteers, and some even don't require
>any registration). Then at least you'll be able to filter these messages
>with a rule in the newsreader program (if they're not already filtered on
>the server you choose). If you don't find a suitable server, let us know
>in this thread (many newsadmins read the group this message was
>crossposted to).
>
>I have a feeling that Google Groups will be killed one day anyway (to the
>great relief of many newsadmins), like many other Google products before
>them.

It is headin that way!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
When pride is the most valuable thing, then the life will be misery. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

gof-cut-this-news@cut-this-chmurka.net.invalid (Adam W.) wrote:

> Note to Google Groups users from SLJ: you should consider
installing a
newsreader (a program for reading Usenet) and getting access to one
of
> newsservers (many are free, run by volunteers, and some even don't
require
> any registration). Then at least you'll be able to filter these
messages
> with a rule in the newsreader program (if they're not already
filtered on
> the server you choose)

eternal-september.org is free and seems to be successfully filtering
the spam - I've seen none of the spam being referred to on slj.
(Just a shame there's almost no real traffic these days either!)

On Tue, 24 Oct 2023 00:11:19 -0000 (UTC)
gof-cut-this-news@cut-this-chmurka.net.invalid (Adam W.) wrote:
> Note to Google Groups users from SLJ: you should consider installing a
> newsreader (a program for reading Usenet) and getting access to one of
> newsservers (many are free, run by volunteers, and some even don't require
> any registration). Then at least you'll be able to filter these messages
> with a rule in the newsreader program (if they're not already filtered on
> the server you choose). If you don't find a suitable server, let us know
> in this thread (many newsadmins read the group this message was
> crossposted to).

Even simpler , they should save the thread "Free News Servers Listing" from
April 2023 on news.admin.peering .

On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 18:55:32 +0100
Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> On 23/10/2023 15:20, Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
> > [ Crossposting to news.admin.net-abuse.usenet ]
> >
> > On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 04:33:17 -0700 (PDT)
> > J Stressman <jstressman@gmail.com> wrote:.
> >
> >> https://support.google.com/a/users/answer/9792297?hl=en

The link has things like "To locate a group that you don't own" and also

If you're the owner of a group that has been marked as spam or has a lot
spam content, you might want to delete the whole group. You can't restore
a group after you delete it.

..This suggests that the page is intended for the googlegroups message boards
rather than the googlegroups interface to usenet. The last piece of advice is
so ludicrous that it suggests that Google also considers its own message
boards abandonware.

> That has a "Was this article helpful (y/n)?" at the bottom.
>
> Say "no" and use the feedback form to explain to GG what usenet is.
>
> Maybe it'll get someone at Google's attention. (Probably just get
> ignored like everything else)

--
Some people say there is a God. Some say there is no God. Personally ,
I feel the truth lies probably somewhere between these two extremes.
J.B. Morton

In article <RJZgNzzq7otMBCT65@bongo-ra.co>,
Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 14:41:20 -0000 (UTC)
>doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>> Is this like comp.arch or comp.lang.c?
>
>I'm not sure what you're asking. If the question is whether the spam on
>sci.lang.japan is as bad as it is on comp.arch or comp.lang.c , I
>don't know. Try the groups through a server which doesn't seem to filter
>the spam (news.cyber23.de doesn't seem to do so) and with your own filters
>off and you can form your own opinion.

It is similar spam injected in a similar way. Much like the spam on
comp.os.vms and on comp.protocols.time.ntp. It is more or less a universal
problem across usenet. Many sites sites just dump all Google postings or
dump anything with "UTF-8" in a malformed subject line.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 5:46:33 PM UTC-4, Jim Breen wrote:
> Any ideas on how to stop the flood of Thai spam?

Who has the moderation ability in this group to actually delete spam? If one of us normally reports it, it will hide it from the person who reports it, but not anyone else in the room. Google might look into it further, but there's no guarantee anything else will happen.

Someone with moderation ability should be able to actually delete these messages from the group, but without Google taking action to actually block these accounts, it would seem to require constant moderation to clear out the spam.

https://support.google.com/a/users/answer/9792297?hl=en

I've reported literally thousands of the spam messages in this group lately, and I don't think it's accomplished much of anything. I'm open to ideas.