On Sunday, December 3, 2000 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-8, douglasr...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I believe this is the line you are seeking:
> l. Nicholas Griffin, Esq., of Braybrook, co. Northampton (born 1426,
> died 1482), Lord Latimer de jure, married second, Katherine Curzon
> [Reference: Complete Peerage, 7: 457-8].
> 2. Isabel Griffin, married Thomas Neville, Esq. (died testate 1503), of
> Holt, co. Leicester, Thornton in Ettington, co. Warwick, and Pickhill,
> Roxby in Pickhill, etc., co. York, son and heir of William Neville, of
> Holt, Pickhill, Roxby, etc., by Katherine, daughter and heiress of
> Thomas Palmer, Esq., of Holt [References: H.S.P., 12 (1877): 167, 19
> (1884): 53, 169; TG 7(1986): 136; Early Chancery Proceedings, 3: 452,
> 6: 124].
> 3. Thomas Neville, of Cotterstock and Cottingham, co. Northampton,
> married Alice Wauton, daughter of ____ Wauton of Basmead in Eaton
> Socon, co. Bedford [References: H.S.P., 19 (1884): 53, 169, 198; TG
> (1986): 136].
> Children of Thomas Neville, by Alice Wauton:
> i. JANE NEVILLE, married William Chamberlain, alias Spicer, of
> Normanton-on-Soar, co. Nottingham. They are ancestors of the
> immigrant, Thomas Bressey, of New England.
> ii. ANNE NEVILLE, married John Saint John, of Bletsoe and Keysoe,
> co. Bedford. They are ancestors of Elizabeth Butler, wife of William
> Claiborne, Gent. (died 1676), of Virginia.
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
> E-mail: royala...@msn.com

Hi All,

I am entering this conversation thread after a 23 year gap since the last posted message. I am also posting this message as a new conversation at this site. I am choosing the spelling of Nevill for this message but acknowledge the spellings of Neville, Nevell, Nevyll, and other variant spellings for the surname.

I descend from Anne (Nevill?) who married John St. John (died 1558-1559) as his second wife through they daughter Cressitt St. John who married John Butler. Based on Magna Carta Ancestry (Richardson), page 518-119 and the St.. John pedigree in the 1566 Visitation of Bedfordshire (1885; Harleian Society) and the Faldo pedigree in by Richard Mundy included as an "additional Pedigree" in The visitations of Bedfordshire Annis Domini 1566, 1582 and 1634, Edited by Frederic Augustus Blaydes (1884), my current ancestry for Anne (Nevill?) is the same as stated in Douglas Richardson's message copied above. I am re-examining this genealogy which is raising considerable doubts in my mind that this genealogy is correct.

First, I note that in the St. John pedigree in the 1566 Visitation of Bedfordshire (1885; Harleian Society) there is a squiggly line (not a solid line) related to this John St. John's 2nd wife. Clearly he had a second wife named Anne who was mentioned in his 1558 Will as surviving and the children attributed to his marriage to Anne in the pedigree are mentioned in his Will. This is the first time I have paid attending to the squiggly line. It seems to me the the purpose of the squiggly line is to indicate some uncertainty that Anne was the daughter of Thomas Nevill of Cotterstock in county Northampton, 2nd son of William Nevill of Holt of Leicester as stated in the pedigree.

Second, I cannot find a primary source record that proves that Anne, the 2nd wife of John St. John, was a Nevill. I have not found any primary source containing circumstantial evidence suggesting that Anne, the 2nd wife of John St. John, was a Nevill.

Third, I have found only one primary source record that a Thomas Nevill existed who was married to an Alice twho fits the time line to have been the parents for Anne, the 2nd wife of John St. John. It is the Chancery lawsuit of Langdale v. Nevyll, British National Archives Catalog Reference C 1/332/23. The defendants were Thomas Nevyll and Alice, his wife, late the wife of Anthony Langdale. Several properties are referenced. They seem to connect to Yorkshire. The date span mentioned is 1504-1515. I cannot find a tie between this Alice and the Wauton family. This original record can be viewed at the AALT site at this link. http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/ChP/C1no332/IMG_0039.htm

Fourth, and of the most critical importance, is the Transactions of the Leichestershire Archaeological Society, vol, 13 (1223024), page 215-231 reference cited by Richardson in support of his discussion of 13. Thomas Neville of Cotterstock and Cottingham in Magna Carta Ancestry at page 519. This article can be view at this link. https://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/library/browse/details.xhtml?recordId=3252052 The summary of this article is that William Neville & Katherine Palmer had a son and heir Thomas Nevill. He undoubtedly married Isabel Griffin. Their eldest son was William Nevill and 2nd son was Thomas Nevill. This Thomas Nevill (father) died in 1503, survived by his widow, Isabel. Isabel (Griffin) Nevill, widow of this Thomas, died in 1510. William Nevill, the eldest son survived his father, but died before his mother, making the 2nd son, Thomas Nevill the next heir. This Thomas Neville died in London on 5 March 1570-71. Prior to his death, in 1564, realizing that he had no legitimate maie issue that would survive him, made a trust deed (indenture) entailing his real property and providing a priority list as to who should inherit, beginning with his illegitmate son, Humphrey Blount, in tail male, then to Thomas Smyth, husband of this Thomas Nevill's daughter, Mary, in tail male and the successive list continued. This right to inherit of was conditioned on the person changing their surname to Nevill. When this Thomas Nevill died in 1570-71, he was survived by his illegitmate son, Humphrey Blount. However, by the terms of the trust deed Humphrey Blount or his male heirs could not inherit until 20 years after Thomas Nevell's death and he did not survive this required 20 years (he died in 1590). So, the next beneficiary as per the trust deed then living was Thomas Smyth, wife of Thomas Nevill's daughter, Mary, so he inherited and changed his surname to Nevill. There are cited lawsuit records and other primary sources that appear to document these facts.

Earlier in this same article, at page 210, as part of discussing the ownership and descent of the manor of Holt that eventually ended up in the ownership of William Nevill by right of his wife, Katherine Palmer, it discusses a lawsuit in 1328 brought by Emma Grimbaud of Carlton, Northamptonshire, for disseisin against Walter de Houby with whom they were associated with, among others, John Giffard, rector of Cotterstock. I only mention this because Thomas Nevill, alleged father of Anne who married John St. John (d.1558) was stated to be of Cotterstock, Northamptonshire in the above-cited Visitations.

So, without disproving that John St. John's (d. 1558) 2nd wife's, Anne's, maiden surname was Nevill, I feel strongly that her father could not have been a son of Thomas Neville and Isabel Griffin and it certainly puts into extreme doubt whether she could have been the granddaughter of William Nevill and Katherine Palmer. The only reason I do not say to discard Nevill entirely as the surname for Anne is that I assume there must have been some reason for the two above-cited Visitations to have surmised that her surname was Nevill.

Cheers,

Bob