On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 5:57:47 PM UTC-4, Ivan the Terrible wrote:
> On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 4:55:12 PM UTC-4, Douglas Richardson wrote:
> > Dear Newsgroup ~
> >
> > Regarding the matter of the identity of Alice Neville, mistress and later wife of Thomas Tunstall, of Hornby, Yorkshire, redently I checked various sources to see if any kinfolk of their son, Bishop Cuthbert Tunstall, can be identified in printed sources.
> >
> > The Penny Cyclopaedia of the Society for the Diffusion of Useful Knowledge (1838) pp. 221-222 contains a biography of Bernard Gilpin (1517-1583) which states that "his mother was related to Cuthbert Tunstall, one of the most enlightened churchmen of his time." It further states that Cuthbert Tunstall "being bishop of Durham had the means of placing his relation in the valuable rectory of Houghton-le-Spring ..."
> >
> > The above biography may be viewed at the following weblink:
> >
> > https://books.google.com/books?id=wYDnj2ZpUksC&pg=PA221
> >
> > Checking further, I find that Bernard Gilpin's mother, Margaret Layton, wife of Edwin Gilpin, was in fact a niece of Bishop Cuthbert Tunstall. Bindoff, House of Commons 1509-1558 2 (1982): 502-504 has a lengthy biography of Bernard Gilpin's uncle, William Layton (born by 1514, died 1552), of Harrow, Middlesex. Bindoff itentifies William Layton as a "younger son of William Layton, of Dalemain, Cumberland, by a daughter of Thomas Tunstall."
> >
> > The identification of William Layton's parentage is made by William Layton's own will, in which he "described himself of Harrow but mentioned both a Staffordshire lease and a debt owing to him in Yorkshire which he bequeathed to his brother Cuthbert and his sister 'Gilpynge." William Layton of the Daleman family had a brother named Cuthbert .... and their sister Margaret became the wife of Edwin Gilpin and the mother of Bernard Gilpin the 'Apostle of the North.'"
> >
> > Bindoff refers to William Layton's uncle, Bishop Cuthbert Layton, although he does not directly state how he determined their kinship. He does refer in his citations to C. Sturge, Cuthbert Tunstal, app. 1.
> >
> > Interested parties may view the biography of William Layton at the following weblink:
> >
> > https://books.google.com/books?id=u_eIrJpc_T0C&pg=PA502
> >
> > Foster, Pedigrees Recorded at the Heralds' Visitations of the Counties of Cumberland and Westmorland (1891): 78 includes a visitation pedigree of the Layton family of Dalemain, Cumberland. It reads in part as follows:
> >
> > "William Layton of Delmayne, in com. Cumberland = .... dau. of .... Tunstall, of Thurland."
> >
> > The Layton-Tunstall marriage is further supported by the fact that a Grace and an Anthony Layton are included as legatees in the 1513 will of Brian Tunstall, of Thurland, which Brian was a known brother of Bishop Cuthbert Tunstall. Presumably Grace and Anthony Layton were niece and nephew of Brian Tunstall.
> >
> > Elsewhere I see that C. Sturge, Cuthbert Tunstal (1938): 348 specifically refers to Bernard Gilpin as "Great-nephew of Bishop Tunstal." And, on page 201, Sturge likewise refers to Dr. Richard Layton as Bishop Tunstal's nephew.
> >
> > In summary, the evidence appears to be good that Bishop Cuthbert Tunstall had a sister who married William Layton, of Dalemain, Cumberland.
> >
> > Next, I find that Rex, The Theology of John Fisher (2003): 170 refers to Robert Ridley as "cousin and secretary" to Cuthbert Tunstall, Bishop of Durham. No documentation is provided for this statement.
> >
> > Elsewhere I note that there is a biography of Robert Ridley's brother, Nicholas Ridley (c.1502-1555), published in Mayer & Walters, Corr. of Reginald Pole 4 (2008): 444. This account states that Nicholas Ridley was born near Willimontswick, Northumberland, being the son of Christopher Ridley. The author notes that Nicholas Ridley was related to Cuthbert Tunstall. Again no documentation is provided for this statement.
> >
> > Elsewhere there is a pedigree of the Ridley family in Hodgson, History of Northumberland Part II, Vol. II (1832): 323, which pedigree places that Robert Ridley and his brother, Nicholas, as the sons of Nicholas Ridley, of Willimoteswick, and his wife, Mary Curwen, of Workington. Online genealogical databases indicate that Mary (Curwen) Ridley was the grand-daughter of Katherine (Tunstall) Pennington, which Katherine was a great-aunt of Bishop Cuthbert Tunstall. If correct, that would explain the kinship between Bishop Tunstall and the Ridley family.
> >
> > Lastly, I find that the book, Roger Ascham, by Laurence V. Ryan, published in 1963 includes biographical material on Roger Ascham.
> >
> > On page 8-9, Ryan states the following:
> >
> > "Roger's mother, according to Grant, was named Margaret, and was 'related in descent and blood to many gently-born men' (III, 307). Who these relations were Grant does not tell, nor does Ascham anywhere identify them. They may have been a family named Conyers, since for a time Ascham shared his rooms at Cambridge with a well-born relation of that name. But whether his mother was herself a Conyers is not certain, for nowhere is there mention of her maiden name. Only once does Ascham give any clue that he had important family connections. Early in his career he wrote a note of thanks for a benefaction to an unnamed kinsman; the language and tone of the letter, though it ends on a note of familiarity, suggests he was addressing someone who was not only a benefactor but also his social superior." END OF QUOTE.
> >
> > On page 296, Ryan further relates the following: "The unnamed kinsman may have been Cuthbert Tunstall, respected humanist and Bishop of Durham, who was related to the Conyers and hence, possibly to Ascham (see Hatch, 'The Ascham Letters: An Annotated Translation of the Latin Correspondence,' p. 61n, for tentative identification of the correspondant as Tunstall)." END OF QUOTE.
> >
> > On page 296, Ryan also discusses Roger Ascham's cousin named Conyers:
> >
> > "See I, 34, 286, where he refers, respectively, to "our Thomas Conyers' and 'my good cousin Coniers.' This is almost certainly Thomas Conyers of Marske, who matriculated at St. John's about 1535 and later became a vicar of a country parish in Suffolk (John Venn and J.A. Venn, Alumni Cantabrigienses, Cambridge, 1922-27, Part I: i, 382). If Ascham's mother did belong to this family, then it is also possible that she was distantly related through marriage to the Scropes. According to the Dictionary of National Biography (LI, 141), Mary le Scrope, daughter of the fifth Baron Scrope of Bolton, was the wife of Sir William Conyers of Hornby. Such a connection, if it did exist, would help account for John Ascham's position in the Scrope household." END OF QUOTE.
> >
> > There is a pedigree of the Conyers family of Marske published in Archaeologia Aeliana, n.s. 5 (1861): 36-39. It appears Thomas Conyers, of Marske, the identified cousin of Roger Ascham, was a younger son of Christopher Conyers, Esq., of Marske, by Elizabeth, daughter of Thomas Metcalfe, Esq. Christopher Conyers' father, William Conyers, Esq., in turn was fifth son of John Conyers, Knt., of Hornby, Yorkshire [died 1490], who married Margery Darcy.
> >
> > Thus, Thomas Conyers, of Marske, was the grandson of a brother of the John Conyers, Knt., of Hornby, Yorkshire [died 1469], who married Alice Neville.
> >
> > The above mentioned Conyers pedigree may be viewed at the following weblink:
> >
> > https://books.google.com/books?id=3UhRAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA36
> >
> > In summary, we see that Roger Ascham was related to a certain Thomas Conyers, of Marske, and also that at some point Roger Ascham wrote to an unidentified kinsman who a modern editor thought might be Bishop Cuthbert Tunstall. It's not much, but possibly a good lead.
> >
> > Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
> In a March 2015 post concerning Alice Neville, the mistress and then wife of Thomas Tunstall, Douglas Richardson stated, “In summary, the evidence appears to be good that Bishop Cuthbert Tunstall had a sister who married William Layton, of Dalemain, Cumberland.”
>
> Since the evidence appears to be solid concerning the marriage of William Layton of Dalemain, Cumberland to a daughter of Thomas Tunstall and Alice Neville, then why isn’t William Claiborne, Esq. of Kent Island, MD and New Kent, VA (died c.1677) (a descendant of Alice Neville), considered a gateway ancestor?
>
> Both lines of descent are the most probable for William Claiborne of Kent Island, MD and New Kent, VA.
>
> 1. Edward III, King of England (died 1377) m. Philippa of Hainault
> 2. John Plantagenet, Duke of Lancaster (died 1399) m. Katherine Swynford
> 3. Joan Beaufort (died 1440) m. Ralph de Neville, Earl of Westmorland (died 1425)
> 4. William Neville, Earl of Kent (died 1463) m. Joan Faunconberg
> 5. Alice Neville m1. John Conyers (died 1469), m2. Thomas Tunstall of Thurland Castle, Lancashire (died c. 1499)
> 6. daughter (Margaret?) of Thomas Tunstall m. William Layton of Dalemain, Cumberland
> 7. William Layton of Harrow, Mdx. (died c. 1551/2), m. Joan Stepneth
> 8. Anne Layton of Dalemain, Cumberland m. Edmund Cleburne
> 9. Thomas Cleyborne (or Claiborne), Sr. m. Katherine Reveley
> 10. Thomas Cleyborne (or Claiborne), Jr. (c.1557 – c.1607), m. Sarah Smith
> 11. William Claiborne, Esq. of Kent Island, MD and New Kent, VA, Treasurer and Secretary of the Colony of Virginia (died c.1677) m. Jane Butler (or Boteler)
>
> OR
>
> 1. Edward III, King of England (died 1377) m. Philippa of Hainault
> 2. John Plantagenet, Duke of Lancaster (died 1399) m. Katherine Swynford
> 3. Joan Beaufort (died 1440) m. Ralph de Neville, Earl of Westmorland (died 1425)
> 4. Richard Neville, Earl of Salisbury (died 1460) m. Alice Montagu
> 5. George Neville, Archbishop of York (died 1476) = by a mistress
> 6. Alice Neville m. Thomas Tunstall of Thurland Castle, Lancashire (died c. 1499)
> 7. daughter (Margaret?) of Thomas Tunstall m. William Layton of Dalemain, Cumberland
> 8. William Layton of Harrow, Mdx. (died c. 1551/2), m. Joan Stepneth
> 9. Anne Layton of Dalemain, Cumberland m. Edmund Cleburne
> 10. Thomas Cleyborne (or Claiborne), Sr. m. Katherine Reveley
> 11. Thomas Cleyborne (or Claiborne), Jr. (died c.1607), m. Sarah Smith
> 12. William Claiborne, Esq. of Kent Island, MD and New Kent, VA, Treasurer and Secretary of the Colony of Virginia (died c.1677) m. Jane Butler (or Boteler)
>
> Thanks,
> Ivan