jerryfriedman wrote:

> Indeed. According to Wikipedia, in modern Latin (not a widely spoken
> or written language) the plural is "vira".

Medical people use it.

--
Bertel, Denmark

On 2024-03-22, Ken Blake wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 02:11:55 +0000, snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:
>
>>In English, which is correct:
>>
>>'forums' or 'fora';
>
>
> Afaic, "forums." "Fora" was the Latin plural, not the English.
>
>> 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?
>
> "Viruses." "Virii" and "vira" are wrong both in Latin and English.
> "Viri" should be the Latin plural, but I believe there are no examples
> of its having been used.

AIUI the plural doesn't occur in the entire known corpus of classical
Latin. But isn't it a 4th declension noun, so the nominative and
accusative plurals would be "virūs" if anything?

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?

On 2024-03-22 07:01, HVS wrote:
> On 22 Mar 2024, Hibou wrote
>
>> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>>> In English, which is correct:
>>>
>>> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira'
>>> ?
>>
>> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.
>
> I quite like knowing such plurals, but never mind dustmen -- I wouldn't
> say "fora" anywhere in public. Sometimes, knowing something is fine,
> while using it is tooth-grindingly pretentious.
>
> Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the female
> choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me as one of
> the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's like hearing
> someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".

Reminds me of a Wayne and Shuster bit.

Flavius Maximus is in Cicero's bar. Cicero asks him, "What're ya havin'?"

"Uh gimme a martinus."
"You mean a martini."
"If I want ttwo, I'll ask for them."

From "Rinse the Blood off my Toga."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdrzQNvI24w
for the whole thing

--
I use the smoke alarm as my cooking timer.

On 2024-03-22 15:52:21 +0000, musika said:

> On 22/03/2024 13:54, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2024-03-22 13:01:15 +0000, HVS said:
>>> Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the female
>>> choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me as one of
>>> the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's like hearing
>>> someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".
>>
>> Did his angels have hali?
>>
>> Back in the mists of time when I read The Gramophone every month I was
>> irritated that they wrote "concerti" rather than "concertos".
>>
> As a musician I am comfortable with both versions. I might refer the
> the concertos of Beethoven, but, the plural of concerto grosso will
> always be concerti grossi. Concertos grosso or concerto grossos are
> both unappealing.

No quarrel with that.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On 22 Mar 2024, occam wrote

> On 22/03/2024 14:01, HVS wrote:
>
>>
>> I quite like knowing such plurals, but never mind dustmen -- I
>> wouldn't say "fora" anywhere in public. Sometimes, knowing
>> something is fine, while using it is tooth-grindingly
>> pretentious.
>
> I like 'tooth-grindingly'. I will keep it as backup to my
> favourite 'toe-curlingly"
>
>>
>> Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the
>> female choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me
>> as one of the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's
>> like hearing someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".
>>
>
> If, on the other hand, you were in a Starbucks in Rome, and the
> counter person shouted "due cappuccini, Mario!" would your teeth
> still grind?

??Why would they? It's an Italian sentence, presumably spoken by an
Italian, in Italy. It's the dropping in of a foreign plural into an
English sentence.

"Due cappuccini, per favore": fine.
"Two cappuccinos, please": fine.

"Two cappuccini, please": (insert grinding noise).

"Due cappuccinos, per favore": (continue grinding noise, although I
simply cannot imagine that ever happening in Italy).

On 2024-03-22 15:15:24 +0000, Ken Blake said:

> On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 02:11:55 +0000, snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:
>
>> In English, which is correct:>
>> 'forums' or 'fora';
>
> Afaic, "forums." "Fora" was the Latin plural, not the English.
>
>> 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?
> "Viruses." "Virii" and "vira" are wrong both in Latin and English.
> "Viri" should be the Latin plural, but I believe there are no examples
> of its having been used.

My recollection is that virus was 3rd declension, but I haven't managed
to confirm that.
>
--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On 22 Mar 2024, lar3ryca wrote

> On 2024-03-22 07:01, HVS wrote:
>> On 22 Mar 2024, Hibou wrote
>>
>>> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>>>> In English, which is correct:
>>>>
>>>> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or
>>>> 'vira' ?
>>>
>>> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.
>>
>> I quite like knowing such plurals, but never mind dustmen -- I
>> wouldn't say "fora" anywhere in public. Sometimes, knowing
>> something is fine, while using it is tooth-grindingly
>> pretentious.
>>
>> Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the
>> female choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me
>> as one of the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's
>> like hearing someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".
>
> Reminds me of a Wayne and Shuster bit.

Now there's a duo I haven't heard of for over 40 years (when I moved
to the UK).

> Flavius Maximus is in Cicero's bar. Cicero asks him, "What're ya
> havin'?"
>
> "Uh gimme a martinus."
> "You mean a martini."
> "If I want ttwo, I'll ask for them."
>
> From "Rinse the Blood off my Toga."
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdrzQNvI24w for the whole thing

Happy memories; thanks.

--
Cheers, Harvey

In article <utkba0$31384$1@dont-email.me>,
lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
> On 2024-03-22 09:42, Sn!pe wrote:
> > JNugent <jnugent97@mail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 22/03/2024 11:41 am, Hibou wrote:
> >>
> >>> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
> >>
> >>>> In English, which is correct:
> >>>> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?
> >>
> >>> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.
> >>
> >> Oi!
> >>
> >> My old man's a dustman...
> >
> > Oh my, those gor-blimey trousers.

> 'ow 'd'ya know they're lilies?

'cos she's wearin' them

> --

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

>> "Viruses." "Virii" and "vira" are wrong both in Latin and English.
>> "Viri" should be the Latin plural, but I believe there are no examples
>> of its having been used.
>
> My recollection is that virus was 3rd declension, but I haven't managed
> to confirm that.

My recollection says the same. I seem to remember that there were three
mass words: virus, pelagus and vulgus - all with no classical plural.

--
Bertel, Denmark

Remember Friday, when musika asked plaintively:
> On 22/03/2024 13:54, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2024-03-22 13:01:15 +0000, HVS said:
>>> Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the female
>>> choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me as one of
>>> the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's like hearing
>>> someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".
>>
>> Did his angels have hali?
>>
>> Back in the mists of time when I read The Gramophone every month I was
>> irritated that they wrote "concerti" rather than "concertos".
>>
> As a musician

More! More! Or a pointer to a post with the morest. I have a Handel
on who is a chorister around here, and whose thumbs strum the lap
strings, but I want more insight into musician experiences.

(Hey, I can read basic exercises for the C recorders, and even do
scales, but my time keeping needs help, and my vocal skills have
progressed beyond needing hand signals to hit the note, but not to
where I want innocent people hearing me.)

> I am comfortable with both versions. I might refer the the
> concertos of Beethoven, but, the plural of concerto grosso will always be
> concerti grossi. Concertos grosso or concerto grossos are both unappealing.

They are just gross, eh?

/dps

--
Who, me? And what lacuna?

Jerry Friedman:
> I suppose that's like AmFFE (American Fast Food English) "a fry" for
> a serving of French fries.

I guess this one is Jerry's domain, but to me "a fry" only means one
of the pieces of fried potato that make up that serving.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | An actual human would feel guilt in this situation.
msb@vex.net | -- Scott Adams: Dilbert

On 22-Mar-24 11:41, Hibou wrote:
> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>> In English, which is correct:
>>
>> 'forums' or 'fora';  'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?
>
> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.

Your use of "dustman" dates you terribly.

That said, I'm unsure what the current job title might be.

Recycling operative?

--
Sam Plusnet

On 22-Mar-24 19:20, Mark Brader wrote:
> Jerry Friedman:
>> I suppose that's like AmFFE (American Fast Food English) "a fry" for
>> a serving of French fries.
>
> I guess this one is Jerry's domain, but to me "a fry" only means one
> of the pieces of fried potato that make up that serving.

But if you're in the business of delivering food to customers, and the
smallest unit you handle is 'one serving', I think 'a fry' might be
acceptable.

P.S. In the real world, they're chips, not fries.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 23/03/24 02:40, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 14:58:57 +0000, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-22, HVS wrote:
>>
>>> On 22 Mar 2024, Hibou wrote
>>>
>>>> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>>>>> In English, which is correct:
>>>>>
>>>>> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira'
>>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.
>>>
>>> I quite like knowing such plurals, but never mind dustmen -- I wouldn't
>>> say "fora" anywhere in public. Sometimes, knowing something is fine,
>>> while using it is tooth-grindingly pretentious.
>>>
>>> Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the female
>>> choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me as one of
>>> the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's like hearing
>>> someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".
>>
>> Ask your greengrocer for "one broccolo". I dare you.
>
> I once heard a waitress in a restaurant in Italy deliver a plate of
> what she called "un spaghetto" to a customer.

I have on occasion used the word "spaghetto", but only to refer to a
single strand.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 23/03/24 03:40, lar3ryca wrote:

> Flavius Maximus is in Cicero's bar. Cicero asks him, "What're ya havin'?"
>
> "Uh gimme a martinus."
> "You mean a martini."
> "If I want ttwo, I'll ask for them."

You've got a good ear.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 23/03/24 00:01, HVS wrote:

> Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the female
> choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me as one of
> the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's like hearing
> someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".

Somewhat unrelated: two of the women in our choir sometimes sing the
soprano part, and sometimes the alto. Our conductor calls them bisectional.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> writes:

> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>
>> In English, which is correct:
>>
>> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?
>
> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.

I use 'fora' in writing and conversation. Not when talking to some
neighbors who have 8th grade or less.

We ribbed one of our friends quite a lot many years ago when he used
'musea' when addressing a group.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

> jerryfriedman wrote:

>> Indeed. According to Wikipedia, in modern Latin (not a widely spoken
>> or written language) the plural is "vira".

> Medical people use it.

Not easy to find. There's a protein (specifically a protein histidine
kinase--Athel knows what that means) called VirA, but that's something
else.

--
Jerry Friedman

Le 22/03/2024 à 20:16, Sam Plusnet a écrit :
> On 22-Mar-24 11:41, Hibou wrote:
>> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>>> In English, which is correct:
>>>
>>> 'forums' or 'fora';  'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?
>>
>> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.
>
> Your use of "dustman" dates you terribly.
>
> That said, I'm unsure what the current job title might be.
>
> Recycling operative?

Our dear Government's Careers Service has some suggestions...

<https://nationalcareers.service.gov.uk/job-profiles/bin-worker>

.... which I put into the Ngram Viewer, along with 'dustman' and 'bin
man' (which seems to be the usual one round here):

<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=dustman%2Cbin+man%2Crefuse+collector%2Cwaste+operative%2Crecycling+collector%2Crecycling+operative%2Cbin+loader&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-GB-2019&smoothing=3>

It looks as if 'refuse collector' is the official term, while we plebs
say 'dustman' and 'bin man'.

On 2024-03-23 02:45:42 +0000, jerryfriedman said:

> Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>
>> jerryfriedman wrote:
>
>>> Indeed. According to Wikipedia, in modern Latin (not a widely spoken
>>> or written language) the plural is "vira".
>
>> Medical people use it.
>
> Not easy to find. There's a protein (specifically a protein histidine
> kinase--Athel knows what that means) called VirA, but that's something
> else.

Indeed, it's a normal metabolic enzyme. Geneticists may call it VirA,
but enzymologists call it protein histidine kinase, because we're more
interested in what it does than in what codes for it.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On 23/03/24 07:16, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 22-Mar-24 11:41, Hibou wrote:
>> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>>> In English, which is correct:
>>>
>>> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?
>>
>> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.
>
> Your use of "dustman" dates you terribly.
>
> That said, I'm unsure what the current job title might be.
>
> Recycling operative?

"Garbo" here.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Le 23/03/2024 à 08:43, Peter Moylan a écrit :
> On 23/03/24 07:16, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 22-Mar-24 11:41, Hibou wrote:
>>> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>>>> In English, which is correct:
>>>>
>>>> 'forums' or 'fora';  'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?
>>>
>>> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.
>>
>> Your use of "dustman" dates you terribly.

(It's true that Alfred Dolittle did come to mind when I wrote it.)

>> That said, I'm unsure what the current job title might be.
>>
>> Recycling operative?
>
> "Garbo" here.

Apt. It's probably a good profession if you want to be alone.

Le 23/03/2024 à 08:47, Hibou a écrit :
>
> (It's true that Alfred Dolittle did come to mind when I wrote it.)

Doolittle

In article <utlubn$3g3i7$1@dont-email.me>, vpaereru-
unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid says...
> It looks as if 'refuse collector' is the official term, while we plebs
> say 'dustman' and 'bin man'.
>

Is it the last career that employs only men?

Janet

On 23/03/24 22:41, Janet wrote:
> In article <utlubn$3g3i7$1@dont-email.me>, vpaereru-
> unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid says...

>> It looks as if 'refuse collector' is the official term, while we plebs
>> say 'dustman' and 'bin man'.
>
> Is it the last career that employs only men?

I can only say that I've never seen a female dustperson.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW