Below are the opening hours of an office.
Which of the two examples, (A) or (B), is the clearest?

------

(A) 10:00 to 12:00 and 1.30 to 3.30

(B) 10:00 to 3.30 (not 12.00 to 1.30)

------

Are hyphens clearer than "to", as seen below?

(C) 10:00-12:00 and 1.30-3.30

(D) 10:00-3.30 (not 12.00-1.30)

------

Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes:
>Below are the opening hours of an office.
>Which of the two examples, (A) or (B), is the clearest?
>(A) 10:00 to 12:00 and 1.30 to 3.30
>(B) 10:00 to 3.30 (not 12.00 to 1.30)

So for me, the second one is a bit confusing at first, because
it actually contains a contradiction. The information in the
parentheses contradicts the information before the parentheses!
Which should take precedence?

Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes:
>(A) 10:00 to 12:00 and 1.30 to 3.30

Please allow me to make one more comment. You used a colon
once and a dot once. I think the colon is often associated with
the United States. In the UK and also in Germany, the dot has
traditionally been used for this purpose. Maybe that is changing
now because of the huge cultural influence of the United States.

Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes:
>Are hyphens clearer than "to", as seen below?
>(C) 10:00-12:00 and 1.30-3.30

|Hyphens are used for compound words like `daughter-in-law'
|and `X-rated'. En-dashes are used for number ranges like
|`pages 13-34'[.]
Donald E. Knuth (America).

(Above, I used an ASCII "Hyphen (minus)" to represent the
en-dash, so as to not to use characters beyond the range of
characters from the ASCII standard.)

Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes:
>Below are the opening hours of an office.
>Which of the two examples, (A) or (B), is the clearest?

I think the clearest thing is what is common and usual.
That is to say, the next time you are in the area for whose
inhabitants this notice is intended, take a look at the notices
there to get an idea of which form is most common there!

Le 26/10/2023 à 11:54, Pamela a écrit :
>
> Below are the opening hours of an office.
> Which of the two examples, (A) or (B), is the clearest?
>
> ------
>
> (A) 10:00 to 12:00 and 1.30 to 3.30
>
> (B) 10:00 to 3.30 (not 12.00 to 1.30)

I find (A) clearer.

> ------
>
> Are hyphens clearer than "to", as seen below?
>
> (C) 10:00-12:00 and 1.30-3.30
>
> (D) 10:00-3.30 (not 12.00-1.30)

Yes, a bit.

I'd write 10.00 etc. myself, in line with Stefan's comments.

On 26/10/23 22:03, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes:

>> Below are the opening hours of an office.
>> Which of the two examples, (A) or (B), is the clearest?
>> (A) 10:00 to 12:00 and 1.30 to 3.30
>> (B) 10:00 to 3.30 (not 12.00 to 1.30)
>
> So for me, the second one is a bit confusing at first, because
> it actually contains a contradiction. The information in the
> parentheses contradicts the information before the parentheses!
> Which should take precedence?

In (B) and (D) it is the word "not" that is causing confusion. They can
be made clearer with a different wording, for example
(D') 10:00-3.30 (but closed 12.00-1.30)

In the end, though, it is the (C) version that is clearest. After fixing
the inconsistency with colons and periods, of course.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 13:09:07 +0100, Hibou
<vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

>Le 26/10/2023 à 11:54, Pamela a écrit :
>>
>> Below are the opening hours of an office.
>> Which of the two examples, (A) or (B), is the clearest?
>>
>> ------
>>
>> (A) 10:00 to 12:00 and 1.30 to 3.30
>>
>> (B) 10:00 to 3.30 (not 12.00 to 1.30)
>
>I find (A) clearer.

As do I.

>> Are hyphens clearer than "to", as seen below?
>>
>> (C) 10:00-12:00 and 1.30-3.30
>>
>> (D) 10:00-3.30 (not 12.00-1.30)
>
>Yes, a bit.

To me, they are equally clear.

On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 08:16:52 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 13:09:07 +0100, Hibou
><vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Le 26/10/2023 à 11:54, Pamela a écrit :
>>>
>>> Below are the opening hours of an office.
>>> Which of the two examples, (A) or (B), is the clearest?
>>>
>>> ------
>>>
>>> (A) 10:00 to 12:00 and 1.30 to 3.30
>>>
>>> (B) 10:00 to 3.30 (not 12.00 to 1.30)
>>
>>I find (A) clearer.
>
>As do I.
>
>
>
>>> Are hyphens clearer than "to", as seen below?
>>>
>>> (C) 10:00-12:00 and 1.30-3.30
>>>
>>> (D) 10:00-3.30 (not 12.00-1.30)
>>
>>Yes, a bit.
>
>
>To me, they are equally clear.

You actually had the nerve to reply to this obviously ignorantly
useless question?

Don't you guys know when you are being punked?

Pamela wrote:

> Below are the opening hours of an office.
> Which of the two examples, (A) or (B), is the clearest?
>
> ------
>
> (A) 10:00 to 12:00 and 1.30 to 3.30
>
> (B) 10:00 to 3.30 (not 12.00 to 1.30)
>
> ------
>
> Are hyphens clearer than "to", as seen below?
>
> (C) 10:00-12:00 and 1.30-3.30
>
> (D) 10:00-3.30 (not 12.00-1.30)
>
> ------

My two penneth, (A) is the clearest.

So for the second part, (C) : or . but consistent.

Le 26/10/2023 à 16:41, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
>
> You actually had the nerve to reply to this obviously ignorantly
> useless question?
>
> Don't you guys know when you are being punked?

For my part, I deny absolutely being a 'guy'.

Hibou:
> Le 26/10/2023 à 16:41, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
>>
>> You actually had the nerve to reply to this obviously ignorantly
>> useless question?
>>
>> Don't you guys know when you are being punked?
>
> For my part, I deny absolutely being a 'guy'.

You don't see yourself at the top of the pile?

--
John

Le 27/10/2023 à 10:01, John Dunlop a écrit :
> Hibou:
>> Le 26/10/2023 à 16:41, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
>>>
>>> You actually had the nerve to reply to this obviously ignorantly
>>> useless question?
>>>
>>> Don't you guys know when you are being punked?
>>
>> For my part, I deny absolutely being a 'guy'.
>
> You don't see yourself at the top of the pile?

The idea makes me run hot and hot.

Pamela:

> Below are the opening hours of an office.
> Which of the two examples, (A) or (B), is the clearest?
>
> ------
>
> (A) 10:00 to 12:00 and 1.30 to 3.30
>
> (B) 10:00 to 3.30 (not 12.00 to 1.30)

(A).

> Are hyphens clearer than "to", as seen below?
>
> (C) 10:00-12:00 and 1.30-3.30
>
> (D) 10:00-3.30 (not 12.00-1.30)

Written like that, they're less clear to me.

In edited text, ranges are written with unspaced en-dashes, which are
longer than hyphens and would be clearer. But in signs, I often see
spaces around the dash, presumably to increase readability from a distance:

(E) 10:00 -- 12:00 and 1:30 -- 3:30

I'd prefer the 24-hour clock, though:

(F) 10:00 -- 12:00 and 13:30 -- 15:30

--
John

On 12:12 26 Oct 2023, Stefan Ram said:

> Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes:
>>(A) 10:00 to 12:00 and 1.30 to 3.30
>
> Please allow me to make one more comment. You used a colon
> once and a dot once. I think the colon is often associated with
> the United States. In the UK and also in Germany, the dot has
> traditionally been used for this purpose. Maybe that is changing
> now because of the huge cultural influence of the United States.

Well spotted. That's an error. I rekeyed the lines but didn't notice the
seperator.

On 13:41 26 Oct 2023, Peter Moylan said:

> On 26/10/23 22:03, Stefan Ram wrote:
>> Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> Below are the opening hours of an office.
>>> Which of the two examples, (A) or (B), is the clearest?
>>> (A) 10:00 to 12:00 and 1.30 to 3.30
>>> (B) 10:00 to 3.30 (not 12.00 to 1.30)
>>
>> So for me, the second one is a bit confusing at first, because
>> it actually contains a contradiction. The information in the
>> parentheses contradicts the information before the parentheses!
>> Which should take precedence?
>
> In (B) and (D) it is the word "not" that is causing confusion. They can
> be made clearer with a different wording, for example
> (D') 10:00-3.30 (but closed 12.00-1.30)
>
> In the end, though, it is the (C) version that is clearest. After fixing
> the inconsistency with colons and periods, of course.

I tend to prefer the "not" version but the original didn't use it.

Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes:
>On 12:12 26 Oct 2023, Stefan Ram said:
>>Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes:
>>>(A) 10:00 to 12:00 and 1.30 to 3.30
>>Please allow me to make one more comment. You used a colon
>>once and a dot once. I think the colon is often associated with
>>the United States. In the UK and also in Germany, the dot has
>>traditionally been used for this purpose. Maybe that is changing
>>now because of the huge cultural influence of the United States.
>Well spotted. That's an error. I rekeyed the lines but didn't notice the
>seperator.

Sometimes also spelled "separator".

(I teach Java, and students in my classes sometimes need to type
"java.lang.System.lineSeparator". It is common for some to use the
"pe" spelling, but Java expects the "pa" spelling. The pronunciation
in both cases has a schwa, so you can't hear the vowel in question.)

On 11:59 27 Oct 2023, Stefan Ram said:
> Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes:
>>On 12:12 26 Oct 2023, Stefan Ram said:
>>>Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>(A) 10:00 to 12:00 and 1.30 to 3.30
>>>
>>>Please allow me to make one more comment. You used a colon once and
>>>a dot once. I think the colon is often associated with the United
>>>States. In the UK and also in Germany, the dot has traditionally
>>>been used for this purpose. Maybe that is changing now because of
>>>the huge cultural influence of the United States.
>>
>>Well spotted. That's an error. I rekeyed the lines but didn't notice
>>the seperator.
>
> Sometimes also spelled "separator".
>
> (I teach Java, and students in my classes sometimes need to type
> "java.lang.System.lineSeparator". It is common for some to use the
> "pe" spelling, but Java expects the "pa" spelling. The
> pronunciation in both cases has a schwa, so you can't hear the
> vowel in question.)

I think I'm jinxed with typos at the moment! :)

On 27-Oct-23 6:49, Hibou wrote:
> Le 26/10/2023 à 16:41, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
>>
>> You actually had the nerve to reply to this obviously ignorantly
>> useless question?
>>
>> Don't you guys know when you are being punked?
>
> For my part, I deny absolutely being a 'guy'.
>
Would you prefer Guido?

--
Sam Plusnet