On 2024-02-15, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

> On 2024-02-15 10:52:30 +0000, Adam Funk said:
>
>> On 2024-02-14, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>
>>> On 15/02/24 04:52, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>> On 2024-02-14 12:14:01 +0000, Adam Funk said:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-02-12, musika wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/02/2024 22:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>>>> On 13/02/24 07:54, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-02-12 20:04:43 +0000, musika said:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 12/02/2024 19:03, Silvano wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> A certain Juszczyk played in the Super Bowl. How do US
>>>>>>>>>> Americans pronounce that name?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ˈjuːstʃɛk/ YOOSS-chek according to en.wiki.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I know someone in Chile whose name contains szcz. She makes
>>>>>>>> no attempt to pronounce it in a Polish way but just treats it
>>>>>>>> as [ʃ] (sh). Theoretically there is no naked [ʃ] in Spanish,
>>>>>>>> i.e. not part of [tʃ], but many people in Chile pronounce ch
>>>>>>>> just as [ʃ] or [ʃʃ], i.e. a lengthened [ʃ].
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Russian letter щ that corresponds to Polish szcz is
>>>>>>>> supposed to be pronounced as [ʃtʃ], but I'm told that in
>>>>>>>> modern Russian it's usually [ʃʃ], a lengthened ш, whatever
>>>>>>>> the textbooks say.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a difficult combination for English speakers, of course.
>>>>>>> The Russian word borshch seems to be pronounced "borsht" by
>>>>>>> almost all English speakers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not difficult to say; people have no problem saying
>>>>>> pushchair. It just looks difficult in different positions.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's different because the "sh" ends one syllable and the "ch"
>>>>> starts the next.
>>>>
>>>> No doubt you'll make the same argument with place names like
>>>> Ashchurch (a village near Tewkesbury).
>>>
>>> At least in Russian, the most common location for the letter in question
>>> is at the end of a word. Change the place name to Ashchurshch for a
>>> better example in English.
>>>
>>> But of course we know that Slavic speakers have a high tolerance for
>>> consonant clusters.
>>
>> That's the impression I have. Anyway, I'm surprised that an English
>> village name like "Ashchurch" has the literal pronunciation.
>
> I hadn't thought of that, but it's not listed at
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_irregularly_spelt_places_in_the_United_Kingdom
>
>
> so I assume it has.
>
> Sometimes place names are regular when one expects something else. The
> village Stokenham in Devon is pronounced the way an American would
> expect (/,stəʊ̯kən'hæm/), not the way a British person would expect
> (/'stəʊ̯kənəm/).

That is surprising.

--
By those who see with their eyes closed
You'll know me by my black telescope

On 2024-02-15, lar3ryca wrote:

> On 2024-02-14 16:21, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 15/02/24 04:52, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> On 2024-02-14 12:14:01 +0000, Adam Funk said:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-02-12, musika wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/02/2024 22:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>>> On 13/02/24 07:54, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-02-12 20:04:43 +0000, musika said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/02/2024 19:03, Silvano wrote:
>>>>>>>>> A certain Juszczyk played in the Super Bowl. How do US
>>>>>>>>> Americans pronounce that name?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ˈjuːstʃɛk/ YOOSS-chek according to en.wiki.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know someone in Chile whose name contains szcz. She makes
>>>>>>> no attempt to pronounce it in a Polish way but just treats it
>>>>>>> as [ʃ] (sh). Theoretically there is no naked [ʃ] in Spanish,
>>>>>>> i.e. not part of [tʃ], but many people in Chile pronounce ch
>>>>>>> just as [ʃ] or [ʃʃ], i.e. a lengthened [ʃ].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Russian letter щ that corresponds to Polish szcz is
>>>>>>> supposed to be pronounced as [ʃtʃ], but I'm told that in
>>>>>>> modern Russian it's usually [ʃʃ], a lengthened ш, whatever
>>>>>>> the textbooks say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a difficult combination for English speakers, of course.
>>>>>> The Russian word borshch seems to be pronounced "borsht" by
>>>>>> almost all English speakers.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It's not difficult to say; people have no problem saying
>>>>> pushchair. It just looks difficult in different positions.
>>>>
>>>> That's different because the "sh" ends one syllable and the "ch"
>>>> starts the next.
>>>
>>> No doubt you'll make the same argument with place names like
>>> Ashchurch (a village near Tewkesbury).
>>
>> At least in Russian, the most common location for the letter in question
>> is at the end of a word. Change the place name to Ashchurshch for a
>> better example in English.
>>
>> But of course we know that Slavic speakers have a high tolerance for
>> consonant clusters.
>
> Vanna, I'd like to buy a vowel.

"Clinton Deploys Vowels to Bosnia" (originally from The Onion)

<https://www.ling.upenn.edu/~beatrice/humor/clinton-deploys-vowels.html>

--
A drug is not bad. A drug is a chemical compound. The problem comes in
when people who take drugs treat them like a license to behave like an
asshole. ---Frank Zappa