No. 1: menus that redraw themselves just as you touch or click on them,
so you end up selecting 'Start World War 3' instead of 'Milk and two
sugars'.

#3: Touchscreens.

#4: Interfaces that involve two states (e.g. "paused" or "playing"), but
the only indication of which state is current is a control whose label
had changed to an icon representing the *other* state.

#5: Controls labeled only by icons.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "People are entitled to their own opinions,
msb@vex.net | but not their own facts." --Michael Bloomberg

My text in this article is in the public domain.

On 09/12/2023 23:10, Mark Brader wrote:
> #3: Touchscreens.
>
> #4: Interfaces that involve two states (e.g. "paused" or "playing"), but
> the only indication of which state is current is a control whose label
> had changed to an icon representing the *other* state.
>
> #5: Controls labeled only by icons.

What happened to #2 ? And why crop out the original peeve #1 by Hibou?

Here is my suggestion:
#2: You highlight a phrase to edit, but by the time you start typing the
correction, the selected highlight has shifted to the other half of the
sentence. You end up sending a nonsense message.

[ASIDE] I am convinced touchscreens (on laptops or desktops) are
preferred by people whose recent culture involves dipping fingers into a
plate of food - rather than using spoons and forks. Positively tribal.

occam wrote:

> [ASIDE] I am convinced touchscreens (on laptops or desktops) are
> preferred by people whose recent culture involves dipping fingers into a
> plate of food - rather than using spoons and forks. Positively tribal.

I like touchscreens on my mobile, my tablet and in my car. I have
non-touchscreen with my three computers (one laptop) and no plan to
change that.

My grandsons have grown up with touchscreens on mobiles and tablets, but
they play online computer games with non-touchscreens.

None of us have ever been used to eating without tools. Even as babies
we were fed with a spoon.

--
Bertel, Denmark

On 10/12/2023 11:54, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> occam wrote:
>
>> [ASIDE] I am convinced touchscreens (on laptops or desktops) are
>> preferred by people whose recent culture involves dipping fingers into a
>> plate of food - rather than using spoons and forks. Positively tribal.
>
> I like touchscreens on my mobile,

You don't have much choice.

> my tablet and in my car.

Again, not much choice.

> I have
> non-touchscreen with my three computers (one laptop) and no plan to
> change that.

This should tell you something.

>
> My grandsons have grown up with touchscreens on mobiles and tablets, but
> they play online computer games with non-touchscreens.

Again, this should tell you everything you need to know. For complex
tasks that matter, input devices rule. Fingers suck.

>
> None of us have ever been used to eating without tools.
>

Oh yeah? Do you take them to MacDonalds sometimes? Watch them.

occam wrote:

>> I like touchscreens on my mobile,
>
> You don't have much choice.

That doesn't prevent me from liking them.

>> my tablet and in my car.
>
> Again, not much choice.

Sure. I can drive the car without ever using the screen.

>> I have
>> non-touchscreen with my three computers (one laptop) and no plan to
>> change that.
>
> This should tell you something.

I think you mean that I prefer non-touch screens, but I don't. I use
different tools in different circumstances just like I use different
levels of language in different contexts.

>> My grandsons have grown up with touchscreens on mobiles and tablets, but
>> they play online computer games with non-touchscreens.

> Again, this should tell you everything you need to know.

Sure. It tells me that they cannot let go of the mouse and the keyboard
without losing. A screen doesn't give as many input options as the
combination of mouse and keyboard. That doesn't mean the that is
unconditionally better. Different tools for different jobs.

>> None of us have ever been used to eating without tools.
>>
>
> Oh yeah? Do you take them to MacDonalds sometimes?

No, and I never will. But they may have been there.

> Watch them.

I forgot pizzas. And what in Denmark is called "smørrebrød". Smørrebrød
is often held with the hand when we are only with close family (or at
school).

--
Bertel, Denmark

On 10 Dec 2023, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote

> occam wrote:
>
>>> I like touchscreens on my mobile,
>>
>> You don't have much choice.
>
> That doesn't prevent me from liking them.
>
>>> my tablet and in my car.
>>
>> Again, not much choice.
>
> Sure. I can drive the car without ever using the screen.
>
>>> I have
>>> non-touchscreen with my three computers (one laptop) and no plan
>>> to change that.
>>
>> This should tell you something.
>
> I think you mean that I prefer non-touch screens, but I don't. I
> use different tools in different circumstances just like I use
> different levels of language in different contexts.
>
>>> My grandsons have grown up with touchscreens on mobiles and
>>> tablets, but they play online computer games with
>>> non-touchscreens.
>
>> Again, this should tell you everything you need to know.
>
> Sure. It tells me that they cannot let go of the mouse and the
> keyboard without losing. A screen doesn't give as many input
> options as the combination of mouse and keyboard. That doesn't
> mean the that is unconditionally better. Different tools for
> different jobs.
>
>>> None of us have ever been used to eating without tools.
>>>
>>
>> Oh yeah? Do you take them to MacDonalds sometimes?
>
> No, and I never will. But they may have been there.
>
>> Watch them.
>
> I forgot pizzas.

Hands are acceptable at our local pizza places, but they're not
mandatory or expected; the place settings at the tables will have
knives and forks laid out.

--
Cheers, Harvey

On 10/12/2023 12:38, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> occam wrote:
>
>>> I like touchscreens on my mobile,
>>
>> You don't have much choice.
>
> That doesn't prevent me from liking them.
>
>>> my tablet and in my car.
>>
>> Again, not much choice.
>
> Sure. I can drive the car without ever using the screen.

Don't you get a warning, when starting, about using it when the car is
in motion?

>
>>> I have
>>> non-touchscreen with my three computers (one laptop) and no plan to
>>> change that.
>>
>> This should tell you something.
>
> I think you mean that I prefer non-touch screens, but I don't. I use
> different tools in different circumstances just like I use different
> levels of language in different contexts.
>
>>> My grandsons have grown up with touchscreens on mobiles and tablets, but
>>> they play online computer games with non-touchscreens.
>
>> Again, this should tell you everything you need to know.
>
> Sure. It tells me that they cannot let go of the mouse and the keyboard
> without losing. A screen doesn't give as many input options as the
> combination of mouse and keyboard. That doesn't mean the that is
> unconditionally better. Different tools for different jobs.
>
>>> None of us have ever been used to eating without tools.
>>>
>>
>> Oh yeah? Do you take them to MacDonalds sometimes?
>
> No, and I never will. But they may have been there.
>
>> Watch them.
>
> I forgot pizzas. And what in Denmark is called "smørrebrød". Smørrebrød
> is often held with the hand when we are only with close family (or at
> school).
>

--
Chris Elvidge, England
I WILL NOT SEND LARD THROUGH THE MAIL

Chris Elvidge wrote:

>> Sure. I can drive the car without ever using the screen.
>
> Don't you get a warning, when starting, about using it when the car is
> in motion?

I get a warning, but I've forgotten the contents. It disappears without
me doing anything.

--
Bertel, Denmark

> What happened to #2 ? And why crop out the original peeve #1 by Hibou?

They had been previously posted.
--
Mark Brader | "Are you coming to bed?"
Toronto | "I can't. This is important... Someone is WRONG on the Internet."
msb@vex.net | --Randall Munroe

Le 10/12/2023 à 09:10, occam a écrit :
> On 09/12/2023 23:10, Mark Brader wrote:
>>
>> #3: Touchscreens.
>>
>> #4: Interfaces that involve two states (e.g. "paused" or "playing"), but
>> the only indication of which state is current is a control whose label
>> had changed to an icon representing the *other* state.
>>
>> #5: Controls labeled only by icons.
>
> What happened to #2 ? And why crop out the original peeve #1 by Hibou? [...]

No. 2 was from Jerry Friedman:

"#2: Search boxes with predictive typing that, when you type the word
you want and hit Return/Enter, send you to a different word that starts
with the same letters."

Eternal September didn't show me his message; I had to go to Google
Groups to find it. I've had the feeling for a little while now that I'm
not seeing everything.