What is the current word for Condominium with the following meaning?
Another meaning is so common and this one so unknown that a retronym
for this meaning would be useful.

<<Under the Sykes-Picot Agreement, Palestine was to be administered by
an international "condominium" of the British, French, and Russians>>
<https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/palestine-during-world-war-i>

Cambridge dictionary gives one meaning of Condominium as a country
governed by multiple foreign powers; it doesn't call such a cabal of
foreign powers a condominium.

This entry, apparently quoted by Google from an Oxford dictionary,
does better:
the joint control of a state's affairs by other states.
a state so governed.
plural noun: condominiums
"Sudan was from 1899 an Anglo-Egyptian condominium"

P.S. I'm tempted to call the B, F & R a triumvirate notwithstanding that the
original triumvirs were individuals, not foreign powers.

On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 22:33:54 -0800 (PST), Dingbat wrote:

> What is the current word for Condominium with the following meaning?
> Another meaning is so common and this one so unknown that a retronym
> for this meaning would be useful.
>
> <<Under the Sykes-Picot Agreement, Palestine was to be administered by
> an international "condominium" of the British, French, and Russians>>
> <https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/palestine-during-world-war-i>
>
> Cambridge dictionary gives one meaning of Condominium as a country
> governed by multiple foreign powers; it doesn't call such a cabal of
> foreign powers a condominium.
>
> This entry, apparently quoted by Google from an Oxford dictionary,
> does better:
> the joint control of a state's affairs by other states.
> a state so governed.
> plural noun: condominiums "Sudan was from 1899 an Anglo-Egyptian
> condominium"
>
> P.S. I'm tempted to call the B, F & R a triumvirate notwithstanding that
> the
> original triumvirs were individuals, not foreign powers.

Interesting. My 1974 Chambers has only one entry:
condominium n. joint sovereignty. [L. con- together, dominium lordship].

So my question is - when did it acquire the meaning of a flat or
apartment? I guess this is American usage. What do you actually get when
you buy a condominium in the USA? Is it a fixed term lease or do you
automatically get a joint ownership in the freehold or management of the
property?

Kit Jackson

On Sat, 02 Dec 2023 03:56:17 GMT, Kit Jackson <dummyemail@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 22:33:54 -0800 (PST), Dingbat wrote:
>
>> What is the current word for Condominium with the following meaning?
>> Another meaning is so common and this one so unknown that a retronym
>> for this meaning would be useful.
>>
>> <<Under the Sykes-Picot Agreement, Palestine was to be administered by
>> an international "condominium" of the British, French, and Russians>>
>> <https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/palestine-during-world-war-i>
>>
>> Cambridge dictionary gives one meaning of Condominium as a country
>> governed by multiple foreign powers; it doesn't call such a cabal of
>> foreign powers a condominium.
>>
>> This entry, apparently quoted by Google from an Oxford dictionary,
>> does better:
>> the joint control of a state's affairs by other states.
>> a state so governed.
>> plural noun: condominiums "Sudan was from 1899 an Anglo-Egyptian
>> condominium"
>>
>> P.S. I'm tempted to call the B, F & R a triumvirate notwithstanding that
>> the
>> original triumvirs were individuals, not foreign powers.
>
>Interesting. My 1974 Chambers has only one entry:
>condominium n. joint sovereignty. [L. con- together, dominium lordship].
>
>So my question is - when did it acquire the meaning of a flat or
>apartment? I guess this is American usage. What do you actually get when
>you buy a condominium in the USA? Is it a fixed term lease or do you
>automatically get a joint ownership in the freehold or management of the
>property?
>

In the US, a condominium is a housing unit where the owner owns the
space inside the unit but the structure and common parts are owned
jointly by all unit owners.

Think of it as an apartment or flat that is owned rather than rented,
but the owner pays dues to an association that maintains the exterior
and common areas. The association is made up of all of the unit
owners.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida

In article <BVxaN.149235$BbXa.11243@fx16.iad>,
Kit Jackson <dummyemail@gmail.com> wrote:

>So my question is - when did it acquire the meaning of a flat or
>apartment? I guess this is American usage. What do you actually get when
>you buy a condominium in the USA? Is it a fixed term lease or do you
>automatically get a joint ownership in the freehold or management of the
>property?

A condominium (US sense) can be one of two things. The original, but
less used, sense is most closely linked to the historic English usage;
it specifically refers to a form of housing tenure in which a property
is subdivided into individual ownership shares, each of which is
inseparably associated with a share in a business entity that owns and
manages common property associated with the individual units. It is
possible to have a condominium with as few as two units, although this
is uncommon.[1] It is possible to have a condominium of all detached
or semi-detached houses, but the term is normally reserved for a
building, or set of buildings, and associated grounds, the units of
which are individual apartments, and many condominiums (original
sense) began as apartment complexes that were only later converted to
individual ownership. Because of bad builder's liability laws,
condominiums are now uneconomical to build new in many US states.

The exact legal form of the business entity that owns the common
property varies. In Massachusetts, where I live, the usual form is a
business trust (in fact it's called a "Massachusetts business trust"
in legal parlance and the same structure is used for many mutual
funds) but other structures are possible depending on state law.

Most often, however, the term "condominium" refers to the individual
unit, and not to the overarching legal structure, and to talk about
the common entity we would say "the condo board", "the association",
"the trust" or "the HOA" ("homeowners' association"). Usually the
voting shares in that entity are proportional to the size of the
units, so if all the units were identical, all unit owners would have
an equal vote in the association. The rules for how the association
is run are divided between bylaws, which the board/trustees can amend
by simple vote, and the deed of trust, which can only be altered with
difficulty if at all (and certainly not without an affirmative vote of
all the unit owners).

A big part of the confusion here is that in either sense,
"condominium" is a type of *tenure*, not a kind of structure.
Condominium units can be of any physical realization; what makes them
condos is that they are owned, not rented, and that they are part of a
larger property which is collectively owned and managed. (Another
kind of tenure, a "coop", is largely extinct outside of New York City
because it does not include ownership of a specific unit, and thus
most banks are unwilling to finance purchases of coop units -- in the
case of a forced sale there is no guarantee the coop board would allow
the buyer occupancy. Condominium units do include such an ownership
interest so they can be mortgaged in the normal way.)

A consequence of this is that an apartment or townhouse can be part of
a condominium but rented by the unit owner to an unrelated tenant, to
whom it may not be at all apparent that they are renting a
condominium, and who has no say in the management. Many associations
have extra fees and sometimes numerical restrictions on "absentee
landlords" -- but associations also sometimes directly own some number
of units which are explicitly rentals, the income from which goes to
defray operating costs. (Many associations retain a right of first
refusal on sales of units, as a means of maintaining higher property
values by preventing below-market-rate sales.)

-GAWollman

[1] A condominium is a lot of additional administrative structure and
costs for a property in which both unit owners still must agree in
order to do anything; there are simpler forms of tenure for duplexes
and triplexes. But complexes that are too large present their own
problems, because it may be difficult to get a quorum of owners
together to actually do any of the things that require a vote, like
electing new trustees.

--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
wollman@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

On 2/12/2023 4:56 p.m., Kit Jackson wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 22:33:54 -0800 (PST), Dingbat wrote:
>
>> What is the current word for Condominium with the following meaning?
>> Another meaning is so common and this one so unknown that a retronym
>> for this meaning would be useful.
>>
>> <<Under the Sykes-Picot Agreement, Palestine was to be administered by
>> an international "condominium" of the British, French, and Russians>>
>> <https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/palestine-during-world-war-i>
>>
>> Cambridge dictionary gives one meaning of Condominium as a country
>> governed by multiple foreign powers; it doesn't call such a cabal of
>> foreign powers a condominium.
>>
>> This entry, apparently quoted by Google from an Oxford dictionary,
>> does better:
>> the joint control of a state's affairs by other states.
>> a state so governed.
>> plural noun: condominiums "Sudan was from 1899 an Anglo-Egyptian
>> condominium"
>>
>> P.S. I'm tempted to call the B, F & R a triumvirate notwithstanding that
>> the
>> original triumvirs were individuals, not foreign powers.
>
> Interesting. My 1974 Chambers has only one entry:
> condominium n. joint sovereignty. [L. con- together, dominium lordship].
>
> So my question is - when did it acquire the meaning of a flat or
> apartment? I guess this is American usage. What do you actually get when
> you buy a condominium in the USA? Is it a fixed term lease or do you
> automatically get a joint ownership in the freehold or management of the
> property?
>
> Kit Jackson
>

I used to work in a Condominium -- at least I did research there, and
resided for varying periods, from 1974 to 1980, when it ceased to be a
Condominium and became an independent state. This was the New
Hebrides/Nouvelles Hébrides, now Vanuatu. I don't believe I ever heard
the word used to refer to the two governing powers (Britain and France)
collectively, the sense apparently used in the presenting quote above.
It was, however, used to refer to the arrangement between the two
powers, and to the entity thus established (which was neither a state,
nor a colony, nor a protectorate, nor a DOM-TOM, as the French used to
call them).

A couple of illustrative quotes from the Pacific Islands Year Book (1978
ed.):
-------------
The New Hebrides is a condominium jointly administered by Britain and
France...

The condominium was set up by a convention of October 1906, the terms of
which were later superseded by the Anglo-French Protocol of 1914.
----------------

I'd say the presenting quote above is either un-idiomatic usage, or
perhaps a loose reference to the agreement or understanding among the
three countries by which the territory was to be administered.

Per OED, the AmEng usage referring to individually-owned apartments
dates from mid-20th century.

TonyCooper wrote:

> In the US, a condominium is a housing unit where the owner owns the
> space inside the unit but the structure and common parts are owned
> jointly by all unit owners.
>
> Think of it as an apartment or flat that is owned rather than rented,
> but the owner pays dues to an association that maintains the exterior
> and common areas. The association is made up of all of the unit
> owners.

That precisely describes what in Denmark is called "en ejer-lejlighed" -
an owners apartment.

--
Bertel, Denmark

On Fri, 01 Dec 2023 23:28:02 -0500, TonyCooper
<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 02 Dec 2023 03:56:17 GMT, Kit Jackson <dummyemail@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 22:33:54 -0800 (PST), Dingbat wrote:
>>
>>> What is the current word for Condominium with the following meaning?
>>> Another meaning is so common and this one so unknown that a retronym
>>> for this meaning would be useful.
>>>
>>> <<Under the Sykes-Picot Agreement, Palestine was to be administered by
>>> an international "condominium" of the British, French, and Russians>>
>>> <https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/palestine-during-world-war-i>
>>>
>>> Cambridge dictionary gives one meaning of Condominium as a country
>>> governed by multiple foreign powers; it doesn't call such a cabal of
>>> foreign powers a condominium.
>>>
>>> This entry, apparently quoted by Google from an Oxford dictionary,
>>> does better:
>>> the joint control of a state's affairs by other states.
>>> a state so governed.
>>> plural noun: condominiums "Sudan was from 1899 an Anglo-Egyptian
>>> condominium"
>>>
>>> P.S. I'm tempted to call the B, F & R a triumvirate notwithstanding that
>>> the
>>> original triumvirs were individuals, not foreign powers.
>>
>>Interesting. My 1974 Chambers has only one entry:
>>condominium n. joint sovereignty. [L. con- together, dominium lordship].
>>
>>So my question is - when did it acquire the meaning of a flat or
>>apartment? I guess this is American usage. What do you actually get when
>>you buy a condominium in the USA? Is it a fixed term lease or do you
>>automatically get a joint ownership in the freehold or management of the
>>property?
>>
>
>In the US, a condominium is a housing unit where the owner owns the
>space inside the unit but the structure and common parts are owned
>jointly by all unit owners.
>
>Think of it as an apartment or flat

....and sometimes a town house.

>that is owned rather than rented,
>but the owner pays dues to an association that maintains the exterior
>and common areas. The association is made up of all of the unit
>owners.

On Saturday, December 2, 2023 at 5:22:19 AM UTC-8, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Dec 2023 23:28:02 -0500, TonyCooper
> <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 02 Dec 2023 03:56:17 GMT, Kit Jackson <dummy...@gmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >In the US, a condominium is a housing unit where the owner owns the
> >space inside the unit but the structure and common parts are owned
> >jointly by all unit owners.
> >
> >Think of it as an apartment or flat
> ...and sometimes a town house.
> >that is owned rather than rented,
> >but the owner pays dues to an association that maintains the exterior
> >and common areas. The association is made up of all of the unit
> >owners.

I've lived in a condominium building for about 30 years. The term
here for such arrangements is strata ownership or strata title. Strata
arrangements were not common in coastal British Columbia
until about 1980. It was a new thing and there was a condo building
boom with a lot of sloppy construction in the absence of enforceable standards.

After a few years, the consequences -- especially serious leaks in a
place where it rains a lot -- became apparent. The worst part was
that once all the units in a new strata building were sold, the
builders/developers no longer had any legal obligations relating
to faulty design or construction. Unscrupulous builders cut corners,
and when the resulting problems -- leaks, mostly, and mould in
the walls -- became apparent, there was initially no one to pay
for remediation, which typically cost tens of thousands of dollars
per unit, and in the worst cases, as much as $100,000.

We spent a couple of decades sorting out who could sue whom to pay for
repairs, and eventually provincial legislation brought some order to the
market place. At one stage, I was covering "the leaky condo crisis"
for my newspaper while paying around $30,000 for repairs to my own unit.

bill

On 2023-12-02 07:22, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Dec 2023 23:28:02 -0500, TonyCooper
> <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 02 Dec 2023 03:56:17 GMT, Kit Jackson <dummyemail@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 22:33:54 -0800 (PST), Dingbat wrote:
>>>
>>>> What is the current word for Condominium with the following meaning?
>>>> Another meaning is so common and this one so unknown that a retronym
>>>> for this meaning would be useful.
>>>>
>>>> <<Under the Sykes-Picot Agreement, Palestine was to be administered by
>>>> an international "condominium" of the British, French, and Russians>>
>>>> <https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/palestine-during-world-war-i>
>>>>
>>>> Cambridge dictionary gives one meaning of Condominium as a country
>>>> governed by multiple foreign powers; it doesn't call such a cabal of
>>>> foreign powers a condominium.
>>>>
>>>> This entry, apparently quoted by Google from an Oxford dictionary,
>>>> does better:
>>>> the joint control of a state's affairs by other states.
>>>> a state so governed.
>>>> plural noun: condominiums "Sudan was from 1899 an Anglo-Egyptian
>>>> condominium"
>>>>
>>>> P.S. I'm tempted to call the B, F & R a triumvirate notwithstanding that
>>>> the
>>>> original triumvirs were individuals, not foreign powers.
>>>
>>> Interesting. My 1974 Chambers has only one entry:
>>> condominium n. joint sovereignty. [L. con- together, dominium lordship].
>>>
>>> So my question is - when did it acquire the meaning of a flat or
>>> apartment? I guess this is American usage. What do you actually get when
>>> you buy a condominium in the USA? Is it a fixed term lease or do you
>>> automatically get a joint ownership in the freehold or management of the
>>> property?
>>>
>>
>> In the US, a condominium is a housing unit where the owner owns the
>> space inside the unit but the structure and common parts are owned
>> jointly by all unit owners.
>>
>> Think of it as an apartment or flat
>
> ...and sometimes a town house.

.... and sometimes in some places, a maisonette.

>
>> that is owned rather than rented,
>> but the owner pays dues to an association that maintains the exterior
>> and common areas. The association is made up of all of the unit
>> owners.

--
Asking if a computer can think is like asking if a submarine can swim.

On 03/12/23 09:02, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2023-12-02 07:22, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Fri, 01 Dec 2023 23:28:02 -0500, TonyCooper
>> <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> In the US, a condominium is a housing unit where the owner owns
>>> the space inside the unit but the structure and common parts are
>>> owned jointly by all unit owners.
>>>
>>> Think of it as an apartment or flat
>>
>> ...and sometimes a town house.
>
> ... and sometimes in some places, a maisonette.

My previous house was half a duplex. (I think the UK uses
"semi-detached" for this case.) The building was on one level, and
symmetrical about the centre line. I owned the interior of my home.
Exterior features like the roof were jointly owned by my neighbour and
me. I think the land was also jointly owned, but in practice we each
took care of our own half.

The two common ways of owning a house in Australia are called Torrens
Title and Strata Title. Torrens, which was introduced in the 19th
century to tidy up the features of older laws, means sole ownership.
Strata title properties are made up of "lots", which are owned by
individuals, and "common property", which is owned by the community. I
believe the title must contain the rules for how the common property is
managed. In my case my neighbour and I had a "self-managed strata
title", which meant that she and I settled matters by common agreement.
We each put a certain amount per month into a joint bank account, which
was then used for things like repairs and building insurance.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Le 02/12/2023 à 23:09, Peter Moylan a écrit :
> On 03/12/23 09:02, lar3ryca wrote:
>> On 2023-12-02 07:22, Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On Fri, 01 Dec 2023 23:28:02 -0500, TonyCooper
>>> <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> In the US, a condominium is a housing unit where the owner owns
>>>> the space inside the unit but the structure and common parts are
>>>>  owned jointly by all unit owners.
>>>>
>>>> Think of it as an apartment or flat
>>>
>>> ...and sometimes a town house.
>>
>> ... and sometimes in some places, a maisonette.
>
> My previous house was half a duplex. (I think the UK uses
> "semi-detached" for this case.) The building was on one level, and
> symmetrical about the centre line. I owned the interior of my home.
> Exterior features like the roof were jointly owned by my neighbour and
> me. I think the land was also jointly owned, but in practice we each
> took care of our own half.
>
> The two common ways of owning a house in Australia are called Torrens
> Title and Strata Title. Torrens, which was introduced in the 19th
> century to tidy up the features of older laws, means sole ownership.
> Strata title properties are made up of "lots", which are owned by
> individuals, and "common property", which is owned by the community. I
> believe the title must contain the rules for how the common property is
> managed. In my case my neighbour and I had a "self-managed strata
> title", which meant that she and I settled matters by common agreement.
> We each put a certain amount per month into a joint bank account, which
> was then used for things like repairs and building insurance.

The buildings hereabouts are 'tenements', blocks of flats built about
130 years ago. The word 'tenement' has had negative connotations in the
past, was associated with scruffy areas, but also applies in well-to-do
parts. We own our flat, and are jointly responsible with the other
owners for common repairs - roof, stair, area, garden, etc.. We mostly
operate on a pay-as-it-arises basis, in principle (say the deeds)
dividing the costs proportionally to the original 'feu duties' for each
flat, in practice equally.

Feu duties were abolished in 2004, and ownership now is like English
freehold (infinitely preferable to leasehold, which is more usual in
England). Apparently ours were originally £3 9s 6d annually.

<https://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/feu>

On 03-Dec-23 6:52, Hibou wrote:
> Le 02/12/2023 à 23:09, Peter Moylan a écrit :
>> On 03/12/23 09:02, lar3ryca wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-02 07:22, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 01 Dec 2023 23:28:02 -0500, TonyCooper
>>>> <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> In the US, a condominium is a housing unit where the owner owns
>>>>> the space inside the unit but the structure and common parts are
>>>>>  owned jointly by all unit owners.
>>>>>
>>>>> Think of it as an apartment or flat
>>>>
>>>> ...and sometimes a town house.
>>>
>>> ... and sometimes in some places, a maisonette.
>>
>> My previous house was half a duplex. (I think the UK uses
>> "semi-detached" for this case.) The building was on one level, and
>> symmetrical about the centre line. I owned the interior of my home.
>> Exterior features like the roof were jointly owned by my neighbour and
>> me. I think the land was also jointly owned, but in practice we each
>> took care of our own half.
>>
>> The two common ways of owning a house in Australia are called Torrens
>> Title and Strata Title. Torrens, which was introduced in the 19th
>> century to tidy up the features of older laws, means sole ownership.
>> Strata title properties are made up of "lots", which are owned by
>> individuals, and "common property", which is owned by the community. I
>> believe the title must contain the rules for how the common property is
>> managed. In my case my neighbour and I had a "self-managed strata
>> title", which meant that she and I settled matters by common agreement.
>> We each put a certain amount per month into a joint bank account, which
>> was then used for things like repairs and building insurance.
>
> The buildings hereabouts are 'tenements', blocks of flats built about
> 130 years ago. The word 'tenement' has had negative connotations in the
> past, was associated with scruffy areas, but also applies in well-to-do
> parts. We own our flat, and are jointly responsible with the other
> owners for common repairs - roof, stair, area, garden, etc.. We mostly
> operate on a pay-as-it-arises basis, in principle (say the deeds)
> dividing the costs proportionally to the original 'feu duties' for each
> flat, in practice equally.
>
> Feu duties were abolished in 2004, and ownership now is like English
> freehold (infinitely preferable to leasehold, which is more usual in
> England). Apparently ours were originally £3 9s 6d annually.
>
> <https://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/feu>
>
When we owned a leasehold Maisonette, the ground rent was £10 per year
(fixed) and the lease had 987 years left to run.
Your arrangement may be "like" English freehold - but there must be some
structure to determine how common repairs are organised - and some means
to deal with an owner who refuses to pay their share.

--
Sam Plusnet

Le 03/12/2023 à 18:48, Sam Plusnet a écrit :
> On 03-Dec-23 6:52, Hibou wrote:
>>
>> The buildings hereabouts are 'tenements', blocks of flats built about
>> 130 years ago. The word 'tenement' has had negative connotations in
>> the past, was associated with scruffy areas, but also applies in
>> well-to-do parts. We own our flat, and are jointly responsible with
>> the other owners for common repairs - roof, stair, area, garden, etc..
>> We mostly operate on a pay-as-it-arises basis, in principle (say the
>> deeds) dividing the costs proportionally to the original 'feu duties'
>> for each flat, in practice equally.
>>
>> Feu duties were abolished in 2004, and ownership now is like English
>> freehold (infinitely preferable to leasehold, which is more usual in
>> England). Apparently ours were originally £3 9s 6d annually.
>>
>> <https://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/feu>
>
> When we owned a leasehold Maisonette, the ground rent was £10 per year
> (fixed) and the lease had 987 years left to run.
> Your arrangement may be "like" English freehold - but there must be some
> structure to determine how common repairs are organised - and some means
> to deal with an owner who refuses to pay their share.

The deeds oblige the owners to pay their share of common repairs, but
say nothing about how to organise them. Some do so themselves, as we do,
others employ factors. The local council provides a service to deal with
non-payers. It may pay their shares, then recover them from the defaulters.

In practice, we've had little trouble. Occasionally an owner moving out
has wanted to withdraw his or her share of the float, but we agreed when
we set the account up that this should not be allowed, since the new
owner will not wish to pay, and the amounts per flat would become
unbalanced.

The stair accounts show who has paid what and when, so there is a degree
of moral pressure. People understand that by doing it ourselves, we
avoid factors' fees and mark-ups. And what we have paid for
stitch-in-time repairs (e.g. approximately biennial gutter cleaning) and
occasional larger jobs is tiny compared to the current value of the
building.

Hibou wrote:

>> When we owned a leasehold Maisonette, the ground rent was £10 per year
>> (fixed) and the lease had 987 years left to run.
>> Your arrangement may be "like" English freehold - but there must be some
>> structure to determine how common repairs are organised - and some means
>> to deal with an owner who refuses to pay their share.
>
> The deeds oblige the owners to pay their share of common repairs, but
> say nothing about how to organise them. Some do so themselves, as we do,
> others employ factors. The local council provides a service to deal with
> non-payers. It may pay their shares, then recover them from the defaulters.

In Denmark it is obligatory to have an owners' union who organizes the
common tasks - performed by the owners or by hired help. It is common
for such a union to have a small mortgage in each flat as security for
the common expenses. In the flat that I owned, there never was a problem
with the payments. There was a problem with a prolonged discission about
important matters. It took ten years to agree on getting rid of a broken
down and dangerous building in our back yard. The problem was that some
stupid group previously had given one flat right of use for the
building, and the present owner wanted compensation for that before
accepting the removal.

--
Bertel, Denmark

On 04-Dec-23 7:02, Hibou wrote:
> (e.g. approximately biennial gutter cleaning)

I take it you have no tall trees nearby?

My gutter cleaning is weekly - at certain times of year.

--
Sam Plusnet

Le 04/12/2023 à 18:51, Sam Plusnet a écrit :
> On 04-Dec-23 7:02, Hibou wrote:
>>
>> (e.g. approximately biennial gutter cleaning)
>
> I take it you have no tall trees nearby?

No, none that rival the height of the building. (The view from the roof
is superb.)

> My gutter cleaning is weekly - at certain times of year.

Le 05/12/2023 à 06:48, Hibou a écrit :
> Le 04/12/2023 à 18:51, Sam Plusnet a écrit :
>> On 04-Dec-23 7:02, Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>> (e.g. approximately biennial gutter cleaning)
>>
>> I take it you have no tall trees nearby?
>
> No, none that rival the height of the building. (The view from the roof
> is superb.)

Some years back, I was on the flat part of the roof with our then roofer
- an agile septuagenarian - when he dropped his reading glasses. They
landed on the sloping part of the roof and slid down into the gutter,
beyond which is a sheer drop of sixty feet or so. He immediately
scrambled down the slates, retrieved them, and climbed back up.

"Shouldn't have done that," he said; "they were only £3 at Tesco's."

>> My gutter cleaning is weekly - at certain times of year.

On 2023-12-04 12:51, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 04-Dec-23 7:02, Hibou wrote:
>> (e.g. approximately biennial gutter cleaning)
>
> I take it you have no tall trees nearby?
>
> My gutter cleaning is weekly - at certain times of year.

Mine would be too, in the autumn, but for the guards I put up. In our
previous house (on the farm) I used a very open, very stiff foam. Worked
well, and was easy to install.

Noe, I use metal plates with holes in them. They also work well, but are
harder to install.

--
I didn't say it was your fault; I said I was blaming you.