https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/115.0.3esr/releasenotes/
--
"Speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ." --Ephesians 4:15. 2 many iOS app updates these days. Z, poopy, peey, & hot on a quiet Tues.?
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Version 115 seems to be at war with Windows anti-virus software:

115.0.1esr:
* Fixed a startup crash for Windows users with Kingsoft Antivirus
software installed

115.0.3esr:
* Fixed a startup crash for Windows users with Qihoo 360 Antivirus
software installed

I'm glad that they keep supporting the old ESR version (currently
102) for three release cycles after the new one comes out now, so
I don't have to worry about all these surprises (although
Windows-only surprises don't matter to me either way).

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:

> Version 115 seems to be at war with Windows anti-virus software:
>
> 115.0.1esr:
> * Fixed a startup crash for Windows users with Kingsoft Antivirus
> software installed
>
> 115.0.3esr:
> * Fixed a startup crash for Windows users with Qihoo 360 Antivirus
> software installed
>
> I'm glad that they keep supporting the old ESR version (currently
> 102) for three release cycles after the new one comes out now, so
> I don't have to worry about all these surprises (although
> Windows-only surprises don't matter to me either way).

Qihoo installs an extension into Firefox. If an extension crashes, so
does Firefox.

The fix for Kingsoft was Firefox blocking the loading of a known
defective DLL from Kingsoft. Read:

https://www.ghacks.net/2023/07/08/firefox-115-0-1-fixes-a-startup-crash/

and the FF bug ticket at:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1837242

Funny was Stoll's comment of:

"Sigh, in the meantime a newer version of this DLL has been released,
"and we didn't block that so it's still crashing. Maybe we should
"block all versions..."

Again, Kingsoft was loading a module as an extension in Firefox, and if
an extension crashes then so does Firefox. Could be something changed
in FF 115 caused the AV add-ons to crash which then took Firefox with
it.

For users of Qihoo or Kingsoft AVs, go to about:third-party. For me
using FF 115.0.2 on Windows 10 x64 22H2, the list was empty at first ...
until I refreshed the page. Then a bunch of ATI modules were listed (4
AMD video DLLs, perhaps from Firefox using GPU acceleration). See:

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/identify-problems-third-party-modules-firefox-windows

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/third-party-software-injection/
"some third-party developers seek to modify the browser in ways beyond
what is possible with a browser extension and resort to “hooking” the
browser, effectively injecting third-party executable code modules
into Firefox processes. Security software such as anti-virus products
on Windows are the most prevalent examples."
and
"We reserve the right to block third-party injections whenever we
believe this is in the best interest of Firefox users."
and
"When we encounter an interoperability issue caused by a third-party
module, we look for a workaround or implement a mitigation patch in
Firefox while contacting the vendor to request a fix. If those
attempts are not successful, we globally block the module using our
blocklist."

Info on Mozilla's blocklist can be found at:

https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/widget/windows/blocklist.html

I think this is one of those background connections that some users
complain about Firefox making even when loading about:blank as their
home page.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-stop-firefox-making-automatic-connections

That mentions "blocklist updating". I saw that long long ago in a
galaxy ... okay, this one, but I left that feature True (enabled), the
default (extensions.blocklist.enabled).

The AVs fucked up, or had a fuck up in waiting, FF 115 triggered them,
so Mozilla blocked those injections. To me, from what I've read, Qihoo
and Kingsoft are the culpable agents for the crashing, but FF 115
managed to lockdown something untoward these programs were trying to do
to Firefox. Another slap the anti-Chineseware bigots can cite (both
Qihoo and Kingsoft are Chinese companies with both headquarterd in
Beijing, China).

Hmm, I had crash reporting disabled in my instance of Firefox. Since it
seems to help them discover the cause of crashes to provide a fix that
helps everyone, maybe I'll reenable crash reporting. However, I'll keep
disabled sending them telemetry (technical and interaction data) since
they use it as an excuse for removing a useful feature to some but not
used by many. They'll claim a feature is little used, and they remove
it, but the majority of users are boobs, and not the power users that
have delved further into using the program. LOTS of users still don't
know what happens when middle-clicking on a tab.

It wasn't Firefox that was crashing. It was the AVs that triggered on a
change in FF 115 that exposed the defects in the AVs' injected code.
For now, Mozilla will block the faulting DLLs of those AVs. Since new
DLL versions showed up that caused the same crashing, maybe Mozilla will
place all versions of their faulting DLLs on their blocklist until those
AVs produce fixed versions of their DLLs.

VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

>. . .

>For users of Qihoo or Kingsoft AVs, go to about:third-party.

I don't have that about page, and it's not listed on about:about. Can
you check that please?

Even MS' security: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/115.0.2/releasenotes/ for non-ESR.

Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
> Version 115 seems to be at war with Windows anti-virus software:

> 115.0.1esr:
> * Fixed a startup crash for Windows users with Kingsoft Antivirus
> software installed

> 115.0.3esr:
> * Fixed a startup crash for Windows users with Qihoo 360 Antivirus
> software installed

> I'm glad that they keep supporting the old ESR version (currently
> 102) for three release cycles after the new one comes out now, so
> I don't have to worry about all these surprises (although
> Windows-only surprises don't matter to me either way).
--
"Remember your Creator in the days of your youth, before the days of trouble come and the years approach when you will say, 'I find no pleasure in them.'" --Ecclesiastes 12:1. Slammy times again. :(
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Adam H. Kerman wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> For users of Qihoo or Kingsoft AVs, go to about:third-party.
>
> I don't have that about page, and it's not listed on about:about. Can
> you check that please?

I have it in v115.0.2, i.e. I'm not running ESR.

On 20/07/2023 04:25, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>> . . .
>
>> For users of Qihoo or Kingsoft AVs, go to about:third-party.
>
> I don't have that about page, and it's not listed on about:about. Can
> you check that please?

Neither do I, but then I'm running v115.0.2 under Linux Mint. According
to
<https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/identify-problems-third-party-modules-firefox-windows>
"The Firefox about:third-party page gives users information about
third-party modules that have been injected into Firefox."

I guess that, as you're using trn, you aren't using FF with Windows.

--

Jeff

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>VanguardLH wrote:

>>>For users of Qihoo or Kingsoft AVs, go to about:third-party.

>>I don't have that about page, and it's not listed on about:about. Can
>>you check that please?

>I have it in v115.0.2, i.e. I'm not running ESR.

As am I on Linux Mint.

Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>. . .

>I guess that, as you're using trn, you aren't using FF with Windows.

Not relevant. I'm running trn on a different host than Firefox.

"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>> ... go to about:third-party.
>
> I don't have that about page, and it's not listed on about:about. Can
> you check that please?

I'm on Windows 10 x64 22H2 running Firefox 115.0.2. I have Windows
Update disabled, so I can't go to look at when Windows was last updated,
but it wasn't too long ago (maybe a month, or so). Firefox is
configured to do background updates (which uses its Mozilla Maintenance
service), so I should have the latest version that Mozilla got around to
pushing to me.

What I see in Firefox for about:about looks like:

https://imgur.com/a/rqpObq3

about:third-party (be sure to include the hyphen although Firefox will
pre-select it in the address bar when I enter just about:th) looks like:

https://imgur.com/a/gHISyah
I had to zoom out on this page to get all of it to show within the
document window on my 2560x1440 monitor, because Firefox's screenshot
tool won't take screenshots of internal web pages in Firefox. The
Screenshot toolbar button is greyed out, and Ctrl+Shift+S tells me the
tool is unavailable for internal web pages.

The ati*.dll files listed in about:third-party are for the AMD video
card and its software on my desktop PC.

Go to about:support. In the Application Basics section, find the
Launcher Process entry. Is it enabled? The Mozilla article about
third-party injection mentioned looking at this, but about seeing some
content in the about:third-party page, not whether you can see the
internal about:third-party page at all.

I did some hunting around to find users that might complain they could
not display the about:third-party internal page. One respondent below
said it is available only for Firefox on Windows. Maybe you are on
Linux. Makes sense since DLLs (Dynamic Linked Libraries) are a Windows
thing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic-link_library).

https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/12dxo5d/aboutthirdparty/

Maybe that also explains why some features for Firefox Windows are not
available in Firefox Linux.

Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> Even MS' security: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/115.0.2/releasenotes/ for non-ESR.

The security fix was for something in Firefox. The anti-virus programs
that were crashing Firefox were "fixed" by blocking them; i.e., the .dll
files causing the crash were for the cited AV programs, and got added to
Mozilla's blocklist. The security fix was against Firefox. The
blocklist adds were against the faulting DLLS from the AV software.

VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
>
> The AVs fucked up, or had a fuck up in waiting, FF 115 triggered them,
> so Mozilla blocked those injections. To me, from what I've read, Qihoo
> and Kingsoft are the culpable agents for the crashing, but FF 115
> managed to lockdown something untoward these programs were trying to do
> to Firefox.

Yes it was a problem with the AV software, but as Mozilla are
getting over 400 million USD from Google each year, you might think
that their testing team would be able to cope with trying out lots
of different AV programs to detect these issues in advance.

Anyway following the trailing edge of the ESR releases seems to
work for me, so I can't really complain. Each little hickup
probably knocks off some more of the precious few remaining FF
users out there though.

> Hmm, I had crash reporting disabled in my instance of Firefox. Since it
> seems to help them discover the cause of crashes to provide a fix that
> helps everyone, maybe I'll reenable crash reporting. However, I'll keep
> disabled sending them telemetry (technical and interaction data) since
> they use it as an excuse for removing a useful feature to some but not
> used by many. They'll claim a feature is little used, and they remove
> it, but the majority of users are boobs, and not the power users that
> have delved further into using the program. LOTS of users still don't
> know what happens when middle-clicking on a tab.

I have it turned off too. It's interesting to browse some of that
data here though:
https://data.firefox.com/

~200M active clients (decreasing) each month, so that's around
$2(+)/user from Google then. That deal is expiring again soon too.

> It wasn't Firefox that was crashing. It was the AVs that triggered on a
> change in FF 115 that exposed the defects in the AVs' injected code.
> For now, Mozilla will block the faulting DLLs of those AVs. Since new
> DLL versions showed up that caused the same crashing, maybe Mozilla will
> place all versions of their faulting DLLs on their blocklist until those
> AVs produce fixed versions of their DLLs.

But ideally that would have happened while 115 was in Beta testing.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
>>
>> The AVs fucked up, or had a fuck up in waiting, FF 115 triggered them,
>> so Mozilla blocked those injections. To me, from what I've read, Qihoo
>> and Kingsoft are the culpable agents for the crashing, but FF 115
>> managed to lockdown something untoward these programs were trying to do
>> to Firefox.
>
> Yes it was a problem with the AV software, but as Mozilla are
> getting over 400 million USD from Google each year, you might think
> that their testing team would be able to cope with trying out lots
> of different AV programs to detect these issues in advance.

It's a pity that developers of internet browsers even have to care about
or to cope with third party crapware like "anti virus".

Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:

> VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
>
>> It wasn't Firefox that was crashing. It was the AVs that triggered on a
>> change in FF 115 that exposed the defects in the AVs' injected code.
>> For now, Mozilla will block the faulting DLLs of those AVs. Since new
>> DLL versions showed up that caused the same crashing, maybe Mozilla will
>> place all versions of their faulting DLLs on their blocklist until those
>> AVs produce fixed versions of their DLLs.
>
> But ideally that would have happened while 115 was in Beta testing.

The number of Qihoo 360 and Kingsoft AV users are so low that they don't
get listed in AV market share reports. So, you're stating that I puny
number of users of those AVs ran afoul of Firefox 115.

Tor is a variant of Firefox, and China (where are Qihoo and Kingsoft)
bans Tor. Probably leads to negativity towards Firefox, too.

So, a small percentage of AV users use Qihoo or Kingsoft, and those are
from the small percentage of Firefox users. From what I've read, Qihoo
and Kingsoft are used almost nowhere except by Chinese, with Qihoo used
more there. Yes, there's probably a few outliers, but statistically
they are unimportant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qihoo_360#U.S._sanctions

I'm surprised Mozilla bothers with ever allowing anything Qihoo to
integrated with Firefox. Mozilla should blocklist everything Qihoo.

VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
> Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
>> VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
>>
>>> It wasn't Firefox that was crashing. It was the AVs that triggered on a
>>> change in FF 115 that exposed the defects in the AVs' injected code.
>>> For now, Mozilla will block the faulting DLLs of those AVs. Since new
>>> DLL versions showed up that caused the same crashing, maybe Mozilla will
>>> place all versions of their faulting DLLs on their blocklist until those
>>> AVs produce fixed versions of their DLLs.
>>
>> But ideally that would have happened while 115 was in Beta testing.
>
> The number of Qihoo 360 and Kingsoft AV users are so low that they don't
> get listed in AV market share reports. So, you're stating that I puny
> number of users of those AVs ran afoul of Firefox 115.
>
> Tor is a variant of Firefox, and China (where are Qihoo and Kingsoft)
> bans Tor. Probably leads to negativity towards Firefox, too.

Chinese is the 3rd or 4th most popular language for Firefox
(currently 3rd on the graph), and seemingly the only one that's on
the rise:
https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/usage-behavior

> So, a small percentage of AV users use Qihoo or Kingsoft, and those are
> from the small percentage of Firefox users. From what I've read, Qihoo
> and Kingsoft are used almost nowhere except by Chinese,

They wouldn't name it "Kingsoft" if they weren't marketing it to
English-language countries too.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On 20/07/2023 15:33, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> . . .
>
>> I guess that, as you're using trn, you aren't using FF with Windows.
>
> Not relevant. I'm running trn on a different host than Firefox.

Are you using FF with Windows or not? If not, then as that mozilla
support link I gave on using about:third-party states right at the start
"This article only applies to Firefox on Windows".

--

Jeff

Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>On 20/07/2023 15:33, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>. . .

>>>I guess that, as you're using trn, you aren't using FF with Windows.

>>Not relevant. I'm running trn on a different host than Firefox.

>Are you using FF with Windows or not?

I have a Linux Mint on a laptop and Windows 8.1 on a desktop. Both
115.0.2.

>If not, then as that mozilla support link I gave on using
>about:third-party states right at the start "This article only applies
>to Firefox on Windows".

I looked later and saw it on the Windows machine.

Am 20.07.23 um 01:14 schrieb Computer Nerd Kev:
> Version 115 seems to be at war with Windows anti-virus software:
>
> 115.0.1esr:
> * Fixed a startup crash for Windows users with Kingsoft Antivirus
> software installed
>
> 115.0.3esr:
> * Fixed a startup crash for Windows users with Qihoo 360 Antivirus
> software installed
>
> I'm glad that they keep supporting the old ESR version (currently
> 102) for three release cycles after the new one comes out now, so
> I don't have to worry about all these surprises (although
> Windows-only surprises don't matter to me either way).

Only stupid people use Windows.

And only super-stupid people use Snake Oil on their Windows.

*SCNR*

--
Faber est suae quisque fortunae

On 7/25/23 3:18 AM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 20.07.23 um 01:14 schrieb Computer Nerd Kev:
>> Version 115 seems to be at war with Windows anti-virus software:
>>
>> 115.0.1esr:
>> * Fixed a startup crash for Windows users with Kingsoft Antivirus
>> software installed
>>
>> 115.0.3esr:
>> * Fixed a startup crash for Windows users with Qihoo 360 Antivirus
>> software installed
>>
>> I'm glad that they keep supporting the old ESR version (currently
>> 102) for three release cycles after the new one comes out now, so
>> I don't have to worry about all these surprises (although
>> Windows-only surprises don't matter to me either way).
>
> Only stupid people use Windows.

So do lazy people. There is no way I am going to do my US/Kalifornia
income taxes by hand. BTDT and don't intend to do it again. To the
best of my knowledge all the tax prep software runs only under windows.

> And only super-stupid people use Snake Oil on their Windows.
>
> *SCNR*

If you say so.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Tell him that the
government will give him lots of fish and he will vote for you
forever.
When he doesn't get any fish, blame the other guys." -A Taxpayer

Am 25.07.23 um 20:12 schrieb The Real Bev:
> On 7/25/23 3:18 AM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 20.07.23 um 01:14 schrieb Computer Nerd Kev:
>>> Version 115 seems to be at war with Windows anti-virus software:
>>>
>>> 115.0.1esr:
>>> * Fixed a startup crash for Windows users with Kingsoft Antivirus
>>> software installed
>>>
>>> 115.0.3esr:
>>> * Fixed a startup crash for Windows users with Qihoo 360 Antivirus
>>> software installed
>>>
>>> I'm glad that they keep supporting the old ESR version (currently
>>> 102) for three release cycles after the new one comes out now, so
>>> I don't have to worry about all these surprises (although
>>> Windows-only surprises don't matter to me either way).
>>
>> Only stupid people use Windows.
>
> So do lazy people. There is no way I am going to do my US/Kalifornia
> income taxes by hand. BTDT and don't intend to do it again. To the
> best of my knowledge all the tax prep software runs only under windows.

California is not the world. In this tiny little and secluded country I
live I can do my tax declaration either with Windows or Mac or Linux.
The Canton (=state) offers the software (Java-based) every year free for
all platforms. In addition I could do it even online.

If you are right something goes wrong in California and in a way I doubt
your claim. I always thought California is advanced and the base for
many tech companies ...

--
Alea iacta est

On 7/25/23 1:14 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 25.07.23 um 20:12 schrieb The Real Bev:
>> On 7/25/23 3:18 AM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 20.07.23 um 01:14 schrieb Computer Nerd Kev:
>>>> Version 115 seems to be at war with Windows anti-virus software:
>>>>
>>>> 115.0.1esr:
>>>> * Fixed a startup crash for Windows users with Kingsoft Antivirus
>>>> software installed
>>>>
>>>> 115.0.3esr:
>>>> * Fixed a startup crash for Windows users with Qihoo 360 Antivirus
>>>> software installed
>>>>
>>>> I'm glad that they keep supporting the old ESR version (currently
>>>> 102) for three release cycles after the new one comes out now, so
>>>> I don't have to worry about all these surprises (although
>>>> Windows-only surprises don't matter to me either way).
>>>
>>> Only stupid people use Windows.
>>
>> So do lazy people. There is no way I am going to do my US/Kalifornia
>> income taxes by hand. BTDT and don't intend to do it again. To the
>> best of my knowledge all the tax prep software runs only under windows.
>
> California is not the world. In this tiny little and secluded country I
> live I can do my tax declaration either with Windows or Mac or Linux.
> The Canton (=state) offers the software (Java-based) every year free for
> all platforms. In addition I could do it even online.

To the best of my knowledge there is NO linux-friendly tax software.
Easy enough to keep my Win7 machine alive just to do taxes. TurboTax
and HRBlock will e-file your taxes for free, but Kalifornia charges $17
(maybe more now) AND demands a copy of your federal form because it uses
that as a starting point.

I tried to e-file with TurboTax one year (2 days before the deadline),
but something looked suspicious so I sent in paper. Good thing I did
because when I checked back 3 days later (as instructed) the submission
had NOT been accomplished. Never tried again.

> If you are right something goes wrong in California and in a way I doubt
> your claim. I always thought California is advanced and the base for
> many tech companies ...

Kalifornia income tax used to end up being roughly 10% of what the
federal tax was; now it's roughly 50%. The government has been in the
hands of those who can profit from its incompetence for decades now,
mostly the public-employee unions.

If it weren't for the nice weather (rapidly disappearing, apparently)
and the beaches, we'd be a wasteland now. Much of the state is
beautiful, but our governance is beyond belief. If my family and
friends didn't all live here I'd move to Utah, which is even prettier.

--
Cheers, Bev
"The Flat Earth Society has members all over the globe."
-- Bob Henson

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

>>. . .

>To the best of my knowledge there is NO linux-friendly tax software.

I use IRS Free File Fillable Forms, after doing my calculations on a
spreadsheet. The IRS forms perform limited arithmetic only. I then print
it out 'cuz I'm damn well not filing electronically. I can get a
postmark or certified if needed.

https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-forms

In any event, I looked it up. Here are options:

OpenTaxSolver
https://opentaxsolver.sourceforge.net/

Here's a list of personal finance software packages:

https://www.ubuntupit.com/best-accounting-and-finance-software-for-linux/

If you need to issue certain payroll forms, I noted UsTaxes, which is
also on GitHub.

>. . .

On 7/25/23 7:20 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>. . .
>
>>To the best of my knowledge there is NO linux-friendly tax software.
>
> I use IRS Free File Fillable Forms, after doing my calculations on a
> spreadsheet. The IRS forms perform limited arithmetic only. I then print
> it out 'cuz I'm damn well not filing electronically. I can get a
> postmark or certified if needed.
>
> https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-forms
>
> In any event, I looked it up. Here are options:
>
> OpenTaxSolver
> https://opentaxsolver.sourceforge.net/

That looks really desirable, thank you. A real tarball instead of a
..deb or .rpm file? Better and better... Printing the forms is
essential, and it does that too. Just downloaded it, but too late to do
anything NEW today...

> Here's a list of personal finance software packages:
>
> https://www.ubuntupit.com/best-accounting-and-finance-software-for-linux/
>
> If you need to issue certain payroll forms, I noted UsTaxes, which is
> also on GitHub.

I feel sorry for people with employees now :-(

--
Cheers, Bev
"John Wayne toilet paper -- It's rough, it's tough,
and it don't take no crap from nobody."

The Real Bev graced us with on 7/25/2023 11:12 AM:

> So do lazy people. There is no way I am going to do my US/Kalifornia
> income taxes by hand. BTDT and don't intend to do it again. To the
> best of my knowledge all the tax prep software runs only under windows.
>
TurboTax does have a MacOS version, see
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=turbotax

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

The Real Bev graced us with on 7/25/2023 2:08 PM:
>
> If it weren't for the nice weather (rapidly disappearing, apparently)
> and the beaches, we'd be a wasteland now. Much of the state is
> beautiful, but our governance is beyond belief. If my family and
> friends didn't all live here I'd move to Utah, which is even prettier.
>
+10

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg