What's the best website for train information/times/running for trains
in Italy?
Is there an equivalent to NRE/ https://www.nationalrail.co.uk or RTT
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/

I'm going in a couple of weeks and going to be based along the Tuscany
coast between Pisa and Elba (if that makes a difference)

TIA

On 27/04/2024 22:15, Allan wrote:
> What's the best website for train information/times/running for trains
> in Italy?

Tren Italia would be the obvious choice.

In message <v0m0rr$15qu6$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:26:19 on Sun, 28 Apr
2024, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> remarked:

>On 27/04/2024 22:15, Allan wrote:

>> What's the best website for train information/times/running for
>>trains in Italy?
>
>Tren Italia would be the obvious choice.

What's better about it than other sites (genuine question).

Does it also list freight trains and ECS (TOC sites usually airbrush
those out).
--
Roland Perry

Am 29.04.2024 um 10:40 schrieb Roland Perry:
> In message <v0m0rr$15qu6$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:26:19 on Sun, 28 Apr
> 2024, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> remarked:
>
>> On 27/04/2024 22:15, Allan wrote:
>
>>> What's the best website for train information/times/running for
>>> trains  in Italy?
>>
>> Tren Italia would be the obvious choice.
>
> What's better about it than other sites (genuine question).

"The obvious choice" implies "without researching into alternatives".

The obvious choice without research for European railways is

1) The national railway company because they are "the horse's mouth"
2) If the national railways company's website is crap, try the websites
from DB, SBB or ÖBB who use the known good algorithm from HAFAS but
might be restricted in their data to what is publicly available (stay
away from the French website for complicated journeys because they often
limit searches to one change)
3) For local journeys in a small region, someimtes there's a website
combining train and bus information; further research would be needed.

Rolf

Rolf Mantel wrote:

> Am 29.04.2024 um 10:40 schrieb Roland Perry:
>> In message <v0m0rr$15qu6$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:26:19 on Sun, 28 Apr
>> 2024, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> remarked:
>>
>>> On 27/04/2024 22:15, Allan wrote:
>>
>>>> What's the best website for train information/times/running for
>>>> trains  in Italy?
>>>
>>> Tren Italia would be the obvious choice.
>>
>> What's better about it than other sites (genuine question).

> "The obvious choice" implies "without researching into alternatives".

> The obvious choice without research for European railways is

> 1) The national railway company because they are "the horse's mouth"
> 2) If the national railways company's website is crap,

It may show only trains of the given company.

Well, in Italy, most regional trains running on
the national network should be Trenitalia ones
but there is at least one TreNord exception but
not in the area given by Alan.

> try the websites
> from DB, SBB or ÖBB who use the known good algorithm from HAFAS but
> might be restricted in their data to what is publicly available (stay
> away from the French website for complicated journeys because they often
> limit searches to one change)
> 3) For local journeys in a small region, someimtes there's a website
> combining train and bus information; further research would be needed.

Still interesting to know whether Alan is seeking connections
or wants to make photographs.

Regards, ULF

Roland Perry wrote:

> In message <v0m0rr$15qu6$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:26:19 on Sun, 28 Apr
> 2024, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> remarked:

>>On 27/04/2024 22:15, Allan wrote

I'm a bit confused about the number of intermediate 'l'
in the name. One more in what might be a nick or user
name?

Regards, ULF

ulf_kutzner <Ulf.Kutzner@web.de> wrote:
> Roland Perry wrote:
>
>> In message <v0m0rr$15qu6$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:26:19 on Sun, 28 Apr
>> 2024, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> remarked:
>
>>> On 27/04/2024 22:15, Allan wrote
>
> I'm a bit confused about the number of intermediate 'l'
> in the name. One more in what might be a nick or user
> name?

Two different posters.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson wrote:

> ulf_kutzner <Ulf.Kutzner@web.de> wrote:
>> Roland Perry wrote:
>>
>>> In message <v0m0rr$15qu6$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:26:19 on Sun, 28 Apr
>>> 2024, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> remarked:
>>
>>>> On 27/04/2024 22:15, Allan wrote
>>
>> I'm a bit confused about the number of intermediate 'l'
>> in the name. One more in what might be a nick or user
>> name?

> Two different posters.

I shall apologize for a double lack of 'l' in
one of my previous postings.

Regards, ULF

In message <v0nnoi$1lb9t$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:03:14 on Mon, 29 Apr
2024, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
>Am 29.04.2024 um 10:40 schrieb Roland Perry:
>> In message <v0m0rr$15qu6$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:26:19 on Sun, 28 Apr
>>2024, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> remarked:
>>
>>> On 27/04/2024 22:15, Allan wrote:
>>
>>>> What's the best website for train information/times/running for
>>>>trains  in Italy?
>>>
>>> Tren Italia would be the obvious choice.

>> What's better about it than other sites (genuine question).
>
>"The obvious choice" implies "without researching into alternatives".

I think you mis-spelled "uninformed choice".

>The obvious choice without research for European railways is
>
>1) The national railway company because they are "the horse's mouth"

But often a horse with a limited perspective on the dataset. (And while
it's not inevitable, programmers who have no idea about what constitutes
an acceptable user interface.)

>2) If the national railways company's website is crap, try the websites
>from DB, SBB or ÖBB who use the known good algorithm from HAFAS but
>might be restricted in their data to what is publicly available (stay
>away from the French website for complicated journeys because they
>often limit searches to one change)

That reminds me about trying to buy Eurostar tickets, to which one could
add a UK domestic leg, or a French domestic leg, but not both. (Belgium
solves that by making an E* ticket valid to "Any Belgian station". But
it's a relatively small country.)

>3) For local journeys in a small region, someimtes there's a website
>combining train and bus information; further research would be needed.
>
>Rolf
>

--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
> That reminds me about trying to buy Eurostar tickets, to which one could
> add a UK domestic leg, or a French domestic leg, but not both. (Belgium
> solves that by making an E* ticket valid to "Any Belgian station". But
> it's a relatively small country.)

That was true in the distant past, in the days when you still used
Eurostar. But not for many years. You have long had to pay a supplement for
an ABS ticket.

In message <efNXN.7320$w1y4.2566@fx14.ams1>, at 13:27:38 on Mon, 29 Apr
2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>> That reminds me about trying to buy Eurostar tickets, to which one could
>> add a UK domestic leg, or a French domestic leg, but not both. (Belgium
>> solves that by making an E* ticket valid to "Any Belgian station". But
>> it's a relatively small country.)
>
>That was true in the distant past, in the days when you still used
>Eurostar. But not for many years. You have long had to pay a supplement for
>an ABS ticket.

I'm glad they've fixed the booking issue for France, and while I haven't
needed to go to Brussels on business for about ten years now [little
point post-Brexit], some friends have used it on holiday. So I'll
recalibrate my advice. Although I seem to recall they did in fact use
an ABS ticket to get to Bruges.

When exactly did the scheme change?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <efNXN.7320$w1y4.2566@fx14.ams1>, at 13:27:38 on Mon, 29 Apr
> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> That reminds me about trying to buy Eurostar tickets, to which one could
>>> add a UK domestic leg, or a French domestic leg, but not both. (Belgium
>>> solves that by making an E* ticket valid to "Any Belgian station". But
>>> it's a relatively small country.)
>>
>> That was true in the distant past, in the days when you still used
>> Eurostar. But not for many years. You have long had to pay a supplement for
>> an ABS ticket.
>
> I'm glad they've fixed the booking issue for France, and while I haven't
> needed to go to Brussels on business for about ten years now [little
> point post-Brexit], some friends have used it on holiday. So I'll
> recalibrate my advice. Although I seem to recall they did in fact use
> an ABS ticket to get to Bruges.
>
> When exactly did the scheme change?

I don't recall the exact date, but I think it was almost 20 years ago.

In message <LMlYN.53$6B9b.16@fx05.ams1>, at 07:00:59 on Wed, 1 May 2024,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <efNXN.7320$w1y4.2566@fx14.ams1>, at 13:27:38 on Mon, 29 Apr
>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That reminds me about trying to buy Eurostar tickets, to which one could
>>>> add a UK domestic leg, or a French domestic leg, but not both. (Belgium
>>>> solves that by making an E* ticket valid to "Any Belgian station". But
>>>> it's a relatively small country.)
>>>
>>> That was true in the distant past, in the days when you still used
>>> Eurostar. But not for many years. You have long had to pay a supplement for
>>> an ABS ticket.
>>
>> I'm glad they've fixed the booking issue for France, and while I haven't
>> needed to go to Brussels on business for about ten years now [little
>> point post-Brexit], some friends have used it on holiday. So I'll
>> recalibrate my advice. Although I seem to recall they did in fact use
>> an ABS ticket to get to Bruges.
>>
>> When exactly did the scheme change?
>
>I don't recall the exact date, but I think it was almost 20 years ago.

I've used it more recently than that, and...

<https://help.eurostar.com/faq/uk-en/question/How-does-an-Any-Belgian-
Station-ticket-work#>
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <LMlYN.53$6B9b.16@fx05.ams1>, at 07:00:59 on Wed, 1 May 2024,
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <efNXN.7320$w1y4.2566@fx14.ams1>, at 13:27:38 on Mon, 29 Apr
>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> That reminds me about trying to buy Eurostar tickets, to which one could
>>>>> add a UK domestic leg, or a French domestic leg, but not both. (Belgium
>>>>> solves that by making an E* ticket valid to "Any Belgian station". But
>>>>> it's a relatively small country.)
>>>>
>>>> That was true in the distant past, in the days when you still used
>>>> Eurostar. But not for many years. You have long had to pay a supplement for
>>>> an ABS ticket.
>>>
>>> I'm glad they've fixed the booking issue for France, and while I haven't
>>> needed to go to Brussels on business for about ten years now [little
>>> point post-Brexit], some friends have used it on holiday. So I'll
>>> recalibrate my advice. Although I seem to recall they did in fact use
>>> an ABS ticket to get to Bruges.
>>>
>>> When exactly did the scheme change?
>>
>> I don't recall the exact date, but I think it was almost 20 years ago.
>
> I've used it more recently than that, and...
>
> <https://help.eurostar.com/faq/uk-en/question/How-does-an-Any-Belgian-
> Station-ticket-work#>

Yes, that's the new system, with the ABS supplement. It was originally
complimentary.

In message <3%pYN.824$o%Qa.533@fx10.ams1>, at 11:49:19 on Wed, 1 May
2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <LMlYN.53$6B9b.16@fx05.ams1>, at 07:00:59 on Wed, 1 May 2024,
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <efNXN.7320$w1y4.2566@fx14.ams1>, at 13:27:38 on Mon, 29 Apr
>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That reminds me about trying to buy Eurostar tickets, to which one could
>>>>>> add a UK domestic leg, or a French domestic leg, but not both. (Belgium
>>>>>> solves that by making an E* ticket valid to "Any Belgian station". But
>>>>>> it's a relatively small country.)
>>>>>
>>>>> That was true in the distant past, in the days when you still used
>>>>>Eurostar. But not for many years. You have long had to pay a
>>>>>supplement for an ABS ticket.
>>>>
>>>> I'm glad they've fixed the booking issue for France, and while I haven't
>>>> needed to go to Brussels on business for about ten years now [little
>>>> point post-Brexit], some friends have used it on holiday. So I'll
>>>> recalibrate my advice. Although I seem to recall they did in fact use
>>>> an ABS ticket to get to Bruges.
>>>>
>>>> When exactly did the scheme change?
>>>
>>> I don't recall the exact date, but I think it was almost 20 years ago.
>>
>> I've used it more recently than that, and...
>>
>> <https://help.eurostar.com/faq/uk-en/question/How-does-an-Any-Belgian-
>> Station-ticket-work#>
>
>Yes, that's the new system, with the ABS supplement. It was originally
>complimentary.

I only used an ABS ticket once (because Brussels is small enough you can
walk or Metro to anywhere except the Airport; where I took the bus from
right outside the Commission building on the few times I flew) and that
was in June 2010. I don't recall paying extra for it.

My busiest month ever with only two days at home. That's because the
organisations I was dealing with had three-monthly meetings and they
usually blanked out most of July and all of August because of the summer
vacations. [Shouldn't say that really, because it upsets Australians for
whom it's winter]

<Thread convergence> The hotel wifi was expensive and slow, and I didn't
want to use roaming data for what was more than a day-trip, so searched
the streets for a phone shop to buy a local SIM. They didn't have very
many phone shops in Brussels!
--
Roland Perry

On 01/05/2024 12:49, Recliner wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <LMlYN.53$6B9b.16@fx05.ams1>, at 07:00:59 on Wed, 1 May 2024,
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <efNXN.7320$w1y4.2566@fx14.ams1>, at 13:27:38 on Mon, 29 Apr
>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That reminds me about trying to buy Eurostar tickets, to which one could
>>>>>> add a UK domestic leg, or a French domestic leg, but not both. (Belgium
>>>>>> solves that by making an E* ticket valid to "Any Belgian station". But
>>>>>> it's a relatively small country.)
>>>>>
>>>>> That was true in the distant past, in the days when you still used
>>>>> Eurostar. But not for many years. You have long had to pay a supplement for
>>>>> an ABS ticket.
>>>>
>>>> I'm glad they've fixed the booking issue for France, and while I haven't
>>>> needed to go to Brussels on business for about ten years now [little
>>>> point post-Brexit], some friends have used it on holiday. So I'll
>>>> recalibrate my advice. Although I seem to recall they did in fact use
>>>> an ABS ticket to get to Bruges.
>>>>
>>>> When exactly did the scheme change?
>>>
>>> I don't recall the exact date, but I think it was almost 20 years ago.
>>
>> I've used it more recently than that, and...
>>
>> <https://help.eurostar.com/faq/uk-en/question/How-does-an-Any-Belgian-
>> Station-ticket-work#>
>
> Yes, that's the new system, with the ABS supplement. It was originally
> complimentary.
>

The old system was still working in 2012, which is the last time I went
to Belgium.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 01/05/2024 12:49, Recliner wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <LMlYN.53$6B9b.16@fx05.ams1>, at 07:00:59 on Wed, 1 May 2024,
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <efNXN.7320$w1y4.2566@fx14.ams1>, at 13:27:38 on Mon, 29 Apr
>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That reminds me about trying to buy Eurostar tickets, to which one could
>>>>>>> add a UK domestic leg, or a French domestic leg, but not both. (Belgium
>>>>>>> solves that by making an E* ticket valid to "Any Belgian station". But
>>>>>>> it's a relatively small country.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That was true in the distant past, in the days when you still used
>>>>>> Eurostar. But not for many years. You have long had to pay a supplement for
>>>>>> an ABS ticket.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm glad they've fixed the booking issue for France, and while I haven't
>>>>> needed to go to Brussels on business for about ten years now [little
>>>>> point post-Brexit], some friends have used it on holiday. So I'll
>>>>> recalibrate my advice. Although I seem to recall they did in fact use
>>>>> an ABS ticket to get to Bruges.
>>>>>
>>>>> When exactly did the scheme change?
>>>>
>>>> I don't recall the exact date, but I think it was almost 20 years ago.
>>>
>>> I've used it more recently than that, and...
>>>
>>> <https://help.eurostar.com/faq/uk-en/question/How-does-an-Any-Belgian-
>>> Station-ticket-work#>
>>
>> Yes, that's the new system, with the ABS supplement. It was originally
>> complimentary.
>>
>
> The old system was still working in 2012, which is the last time I went
> to Belgium.

Might you have had an ABS ticket?

On 01/05/2024 15:36, Recliner wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 01/05/2024 12:49, Recliner wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <LMlYN.53$6B9b.16@fx05.ams1>, at 07:00:59 on Wed, 1 May 2024,
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <efNXN.7320$w1y4.2566@fx14.ams1>, at 13:27:38 on Mon, 29 Apr
>>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That reminds me about trying to buy Eurostar tickets, to which one could
>>>>>>>> add a UK domestic leg, or a French domestic leg, but not both. (Belgium
>>>>>>>> solves that by making an E* ticket valid to "Any Belgian station". But
>>>>>>>> it's a relatively small country.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That was true in the distant past, in the days when you still used
>>>>>>> Eurostar. But not for many years. You have long had to pay a supplement for
>>>>>>> an ABS ticket.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm glad they've fixed the booking issue for France, and while I haven't
>>>>>> needed to go to Brussels on business for about ten years now [little
>>>>>> point post-Brexit], some friends have used it on holiday. So I'll
>>>>>> recalibrate my advice. Although I seem to recall they did in fact use
>>>>>> an ABS ticket to get to Bruges.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When exactly did the scheme change?
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't recall the exact date, but I think it was almost 20 years ago.
>>>>
>>>> I've used it more recently than that, and...
>>>>
>>>> <https://help.eurostar.com/faq/uk-en/question/How-does-an-Any-Belgian-
>>>> Station-ticket-work#>
>>>
>>> Yes, that's the new system, with the ABS supplement. It was originally
>>> complimentary.
>>>
>>
>> The old system was still working in 2012, which is the last time I went
>> to Belgium.
>
> Might you have had an ABS ticket?
>

AFAIR it was the old complimentary ticket.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <v0tleg$37jgv$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:00:32 on Wed, 1 May
2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:

>>> The old system was still working in 2012, which is the last time I went
>>> to Belgium.

>> Might you have had an ABS ticket?
>
>AFAIR it was the old complimentary ticket.

If the new system had been in operation in 2010 I'd never have paid a
supplement, having used the E* since when it started and never needed to
go to Any [other] Station.
--
Roland Perry

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 01/05/2024 15:36, Recliner wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 01/05/2024 12:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <LMlYN.53$6B9b.16@fx05.ams1>, at 07:00:59 on Wed, 1 May 2024,
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <efNXN.7320$w1y4.2566@fx14.ams1>, at 13:27:38 on Mon, 29 Apr
>>>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That reminds me about trying to buy Eurostar tickets, to which one could
>>>>>>>>> add a UK domestic leg, or a French domestic leg, but not both. (Belgium
>>>>>>>>> solves that by making an E* ticket valid to "Any Belgian station". But
>>>>>>>>> it's a relatively small country.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That was true in the distant past, in the days when you still used
>>>>>>>> Eurostar. But not for many years. You have long had to pay a supplement for
>>>>>>>> an ABS ticket.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm glad they've fixed the booking issue for France, and while I haven't
>>>>>>> needed to go to Brussels on business for about ten years now [little
>>>>>>> point post-Brexit], some friends have used it on holiday. So I'll
>>>>>>> recalibrate my advice. Although I seem to recall they did in fact use
>>>>>>> an ABS ticket to get to Bruges.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When exactly did the scheme change?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't recall the exact date, but I think it was almost 20 years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've used it more recently than that, and...
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://help.eurostar.com/faq/uk-en/question/How-does-an-Any-Belgian-
>>>>> Station-ticket-work#>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that's the new system, with the ABS supplement. It was originally
>>>> complimentary.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The old system was still working in 2012, which is the last time I went
>>> to Belgium.
>>
>> Might you have had an ABS ticket?
>>
>
> AFAIR it was the old complimentary ticket.

As far as I can tell, the ABS supplement came in before then. For example:
https://www.tripadvisor.ie/ShowTopic-g188671-i448-k4216847-Confusion_about_Eurostar_ticket_in_Belgium_and_Safety_Issues-Bruges_West_Flanders_Province.html

In message <2_tYN.180$pSmb.57@fx12.ams1>, at 16:21:18 on Wed, 1 May
2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 01/05/2024 15:36, Recliner wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 01/05/2024 12:49, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <LMlYN.53$6B9b.16@fx05.ams1>, at 07:00:59 on Wed, 1 May 2024,
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <efNXN.7320$w1y4.2566@fx14.ams1>, at 13:27:38 on Mon, 29 Apr
>>>>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That reminds me about trying to buy Eurostar tickets, to
>>>>>>>>>>which one could add a UK domestic leg, or a French domestic
>>>>>>>>>>leg, but not both. (Belgium solves that by making an E*
>>>>>>>>>>ticket valid to "Any Belgian station". But it's a relatively small country.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That was true in the distant past, in the days when you still
>>>>>>>>> Eurostar. But not for many years. You have long had to pay a
>>>>>>>>>supplement for an ABS ticket.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm glad they've fixed the booking issue for France, and while
>>>>>>>>I haven't needed to go to Brussels on business for about ten
>>>>>>>>years now [little point post-Brexit], some friends have used it
>>>>>>>> recalibrate my advice. Although I seem to recall they did in
>>>>>>>>fact use an ABS ticket to get to Bruges.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When exactly did the scheme change?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't recall the exact date, but I think it was almost 20 years ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've used it more recently than that, and...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://help.eurostar.com/faq/uk-en/question/How-does-an-Any-Belgian-
>>>>>> Station-ticket-work#>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, that's the new system, with the ABS supplement. It was originally
>>>>> complimentary.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The old system was still working in 2012, which is the last time I went
>>>> to Belgium.
>>>
>>> Might you have had an ABS ticket?
>>>
>>
>> AFAIR it was the old complimentary ticket.
>
>As far as I can tell, the ABS supplement came in before then. For example:
>
>https://www.tripadvisor.ie/ShowTopic-g188671-i448-k4216847-Confusion_abo
>ut_Eurostar_ticket_in_Belgium_and_Safety_Issues-Bruges_West_Flanders_Pro
>vince.html

So it appears it changed ~ "13yrs ago" (shame they don't give a month)
which is in between my trip and Graeme's.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <3%pYN.824$o%Qa.533@fx10.ams1>, at 11:49:19 on Wed, 1 May
> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <LMlYN.53$6B9b.16@fx05.ams1>, at 07:00:59 on Wed, 1 May 2024,
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <efNXN.7320$w1y4.2566@fx14.ams1>, at 13:27:38 on Mon, 29 Apr
>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That reminds me about trying to buy Eurostar tickets, to which one could
>>>>>>> add a UK domestic leg, or a French domestic leg, but not both. (Belgium
>>>>>>> solves that by making an E* ticket valid to "Any Belgian station". But
>>>>>>> it's a relatively small country.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That was true in the distant past, in the days when you still used
>>>>>> Eurostar. But not for many years. You have long had to pay a
>>>>>> supplement for an ABS ticket.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm glad they've fixed the booking issue for France, and while I haven't
>>>>> needed to go to Brussels on business for about ten years now [little
>>>>> point post-Brexit], some friends have used it on holiday. So I'll
>>>>> recalibrate my advice. Although I seem to recall they did in fact use
>>>>> an ABS ticket to get to Bruges.
>>>>>
>>>>> When exactly did the scheme change?
>>>>
>>>> I don't recall the exact date, but I think it was almost 20 years ago.
>>>
>>> I've used it more recently than that, and...
>>>
>>> <https://help.eurostar.com/faq/uk-en/question/How-does-an-Any-Belgian-
>>> Station-ticket-work#>
>>
>> Yes, that's the new system, with the ABS supplement. It was originally
>> complimentary.
>
> I only used an ABS ticket once (because Brussels is small enough you can
> walk or Metro to anywhere except the Airport; where I took the bus from
> right outside the Commission building on the few times I flew) and that
> was in June 2010. I don't recall paying extra for it.

Note that Eurostar passengers can still travel free on SNCB within Brussels
without needing an ABS ticket. Perhaps that's what you were doing?

https://www.seat61.com/reference/list-of-Eurostar-free-transfer-stations-in-brussels.pdf

In message <WIFYN.1040$WbP9.73@fx13.ams1>, at 05:42:14 on Thu, 2 May
2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <3%pYN.824$o%Qa.533@fx10.ams1>, at 11:49:19 on Wed, 1 May
>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <LMlYN.53$6B9b.16@fx05.ams1>, at 07:00:59 on Wed, 1 May 2024,
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <efNXN.7320$w1y4.2566@fx14.ams1>, at 13:27:38 on Mon, 29 Apr
>>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That reminds me about trying to buy Eurostar tickets, to which
>>>>>>>>one could add a UK domestic leg, or a French domestic leg, but
>>>>>>>>not both. (Belgium solves that by making an E* ticket valid to
>>>>>>>>"Any Belgian station". But it's a relatively small country.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That was true in the distant past, in the days when you still used
>>>>>>> Eurostar. But not for many years. You have long had to pay a
>>>>>>> supplement for an ABS ticket.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm glad they've fixed the booking issue for France, and while I haven't
>>>>>> needed to go to Brussels on business for about ten years now [little
>>>>>> point post-Brexit], some friends have used it on holiday. So I'll
>>>>>> recalibrate my advice. Although I seem to recall they did in fact use
>>>>>> an ABS ticket to get to Bruges.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When exactly did the scheme change?
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't recall the exact date, but I think it was almost 20 years ago.
>>>>
>>>> I've used it more recently than that, and...
>>>>
>>>> <https://help.eurostar.com/faq/uk-en/question/How-does-an-Any-Belgian-
>>>> Station-ticket-work#>
>>>
>>> Yes, that's the new system, with the ABS supplement. It was originally
>>> complimentary.
>>
>> I only used an ABS ticket once (because Brussels is small enough you can
>> walk or Metro to anywhere except the Airport; where I took the bus from
>> right outside the Commission building on the few times I flew) and that
>> was in June 2010. I don't recall paying extra for it.
>
>Note that Eurostar passengers can still travel free on SNCB within Brussels
>without needing an ABS ticket. Perhaps that's what you were doing?
>
>
>https://www.seat61.com/reference/list-of-Eurostar-free-transfer-stations
>-in-brussels.pdf

That's a possibility, but I'd still like to know when the schemes
changed. Tripadvisor seems to be pointing us at around 2011.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <WIFYN.1040$WbP9.73@fx13.ams1>, at 05:42:14 on Thu, 2 May
> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <3%pYN.824$o%Qa.533@fx10.ams1>, at 11:49:19 on Wed, 1 May
>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <LMlYN.53$6B9b.16@fx05.ams1>, at 07:00:59 on Wed, 1 May 2024,
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <efNXN.7320$w1y4.2566@fx14.ams1>, at 13:27:38 on Mon, 29 Apr
>>>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That reminds me about trying to buy Eurostar tickets, to which
>>>>>>>>> one could add a UK domestic leg, or a French domestic leg, but
>>>>>>>>> not both. (Belgium solves that by making an E* ticket valid to
>>>>>>>>> "Any Belgian station". But it's a relatively small country.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That was true in the distant past, in the days when you still used
>>>>>>>> Eurostar. But not for many years. You have long had to pay a
>>>>>>>> supplement for an ABS ticket.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm glad they've fixed the booking issue for France, and while I haven't
>>>>>>> needed to go to Brussels on business for about ten years now [little
>>>>>>> point post-Brexit], some friends have used it on holiday. So I'll
>>>>>>> recalibrate my advice. Although I seem to recall they did in fact use
>>>>>>> an ABS ticket to get to Bruges.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When exactly did the scheme change?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't recall the exact date, but I think it was almost 20 years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've used it more recently than that, and...
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://help.eurostar.com/faq/uk-en/question/How-does-an-Any-Belgian-
>>>>> Station-ticket-work#>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that's the new system, with the ABS supplement. It was originally
>>>> complimentary.
>>>
>>> I only used an ABS ticket once (because Brussels is small enough you can
>>> walk or Metro to anywhere except the Airport; where I took the bus from
>>> right outside the Commission building on the few times I flew) and that
>>> was in June 2010. I don't recall paying extra for it.
>>
>> Note that Eurostar passengers can still travel free on SNCB within Brussels
>> without needing an ABS ticket. Perhaps that's what you were doing?
>>
>>
>> https://www.seat61.com/reference/list-of-Eurostar-free-transfer-stations
>> -in-brussels.pdf
>
> That's a possibility, but I'd still like to know when the schemes
> changed. Tripadvisor seems to be pointing us at around 2011.

October 2010.

Roland Perry wrote:

> In message <v0tleg$37jgv$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:00:32 on Wed, 1 May
> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:

>>>> The old system was still working in 2012, which is the last time I went
>>>> to Belgium.

>>> Might you have had an ABS ticket?
>>
>>AFAIR it was the old complimentary ticket.

> If the new system had been in operation in 2010 I'd never have paid a
> supplement, having used the E* since when it started and never needed to
> go to Any [other] Station.

I liked the Brussels Agglo solution for ICE travel from Germany.
Didn't check for 2024.