Operator West Coast Railways (WCR) said the team on board "did their
best" to restart the service, but the train had to be rescued by another
diesel engine.

The breakdown affected the rail network, with ScotRail unable to run
trains between Fort William and Mallaig.

<https://news.sky.com/story/harry-potter-jacobite-steam-train-breaks-
down-on-first-day-back-in-service-13116514>
--
Roland Perry

On 16/04/2024 18:36, Roland Perry wrote:
> The breakdown affected the rail network, with ScotRail unable to run
> trains between Fort William and Mallaig.

I presume WCR will have to pay compensation for blocking the line?

JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 16/04/2024 18:36, Roland Perry wrote:
>> The breakdown affected the rail network, with ScotRail unable to run
>> trains between Fort William and Mallaig.
>
>
> I presume WCR will have to pay compensation for blocking the line?
>
>
>
>

I believe charter services are exempt from paying for delays, on the
grounds that it would put them out of business. There was some kerfuffle
about this a couple of years ago when it was proposed to bring them into
scope. Unfortunately I can’t find any references to this at the moment.
Google seems to be becoming increasingly less useful of late.

In message <uvqgrj$24nv3$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:07:31 on Thu, 18 Apr
2024, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
>On 16/04/2024 18:36, Roland Perry wrote:

>> The breakdown affected the rail network, with ScotRail unable to run
>> trains between Fort William and Mallaig.
>
>I presume WCR will have to pay compensation for blocking the line?

Yes, just like any other operator.
--
Roland Perry

In message <uvqi4i$2503c$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:29:22 on Thu, 18 Apr
2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>> On 16/04/2024 18:36, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> The breakdown affected the rail network, with ScotRail unable to run
>>> trains between Fort William and Mallaig.
>>
>> I presume WCR will have to pay compensation for blocking the line?
>
> I believe charter services are exempt from paying for delays, on the
>grounds that it would put them out of business. There was some kerfuffle
>about this a couple of years ago when it was proposed to bring them into
>scope. Unfortunately I can’t find any references to this at the moment.
>Google seems to be becoming increasingly less useful of late.

It's not a regular charter, though, because they've contracted to
several paths over the same track every day. Feels much more like
"Open Access".
--
Roland Perry

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>> On 16/04/2024 18:36, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> The breakdown affected the rail network, with ScotRail unable to run
>>> trains between Fort William and Mallaig.
>>
>>
>> I presume WCR will have to pay compensation for blocking the line?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> I believe charter services are exempt from paying for delays, on the
> grounds that it would put them out of business. There was some kerfuffle
> about this a couple of years ago when it was proposed to bring them into
> scope. Unfortunately I can’t find any references to this at the moment.
> Google seems to be becoming increasingly less useful of late.
>

Just like other operators, charter operators are liable to pay or receive
compensation for causing or suffering delays. They were never exempt, but
had a low cap, but that was removed. It's called Schedule 8:

https://www.orr.gov.uk/media/12792/download

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <uvqi4i$2503c$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:29:22 on Thu, 18 Apr
> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> On 16/04/2024 18:36, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> The breakdown affected the rail network, with ScotRail unable to run
>>>> trains between Fort William and Mallaig.
>>>
>>> I presume WCR will have to pay compensation for blocking the line?
>>
>> I believe charter services are exempt from paying for delays, on the
>> grounds that it would put them out of business. There was some kerfuffle
>> about this a couple of years ago when it was proposed to bring them into
>> scope. Unfortunately I can’t find any references to this at the moment.
>> Google seems to be becoming increasingly less useful of late.
>
> It's not a regular charter, though, because they've contracted to
> several paths over the same track every day. Feels much more like
> "Open Access".

Yes, I agree.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uvqi4i$2503c$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:29:22 on Thu, 18 Apr
>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>> On 16/04/2024 18:36, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> The breakdown affected the rail network, with ScotRail unable to run
>>>>> trains between Fort William and Mallaig.
>>>>
>>>> I presume WCR will have to pay compensation for blocking the line?
>>>
>>> I believe charter services are exempt from paying for delays, on the
>>> grounds that it would put them out of business. There was some kerfuffle
>>> about this a couple of years ago when it was proposed to bring them into
>>> scope. Unfortunately I can’t find any references to this at the moment.
>>> Google seems to be becoming increasingly less useful of late.
>>
>> It's not a regular charter, though, because they've contracted to
>> several paths over the same track every day. Feels much more like
>> "Open Access".
>
> Yes, I agree.
>
>

Don’t open access operators have to accept Anytime any permitted route
tickets?

The Jacobite contact (at least as of 2020) is here

https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/default/files/om/s18-wcrc-directed-contract.pdf

I’m no wiser as to whether or not it is a charter service, other than the
word charter appears 6 times in this rather opaque document.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> On 16/04/2024 18:36, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> The breakdown affected the rail network, with ScotRail unable to run
>>>> trains between Fort William and Mallaig.
>>>
>>>
>>> I presume WCR will have to pay compensation for blocking the line?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I believe charter services are exempt from paying for delays, on the
>> grounds that it would put them out of business. There was some kerfuffle
>> about this a couple of years ago when it was proposed to bring them into
>> scope. Unfortunately I can’t find any references to this at the moment.
>> Google seems to be becoming increasingly less useful of late.
>>
>
> Just like other operators, charter operators are liable to pay or receive
> compensation for causing or suffering delays. They were never exempt, but
> had a low cap, but that was removed. It's called Schedule 8:
>
> https://www.orr.gov.uk/media/12792/download
>
>

Paragraph 66 of that document seems to imply that they can cap the amount
they are liable for by paying a higher track access charge - a sort of
insurance.

On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 09:44:05 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>> On 16/04/2024 18:36, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> The breakdown affected the rail network, with ScotRail unable to run
>>>>> trains between Fort William and Mallaig.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I presume WCR will have to pay compensation for blocking the line?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I believe charter services are exempt from paying for delays, on the
>>> grounds that it would put them out of business. There was some kerfuffle
>>> about this a couple of years ago when it was proposed to bring them into
>>> scope. Unfortunately I can’t find any references to this at the moment.
>>> Google seems to be becoming increasingly less useful of late.
>>>
>>
>> Just like other operators, charter operators are liable to pay or receive
>> compensation for causing or suffering delays. They were never exempt, but
>> had a low cap, but that was removed. It's called Schedule 8:
>>
>> https://www.orr.gov.uk/media/12792/download
>>
>>
>
>Paragraph 66 of that document seems to imply that they can cap the amount
>they are liable for by paying a higher track access charge - a sort of
>insurance.

Yes, I think that's open to both charter and freight operators.

On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 09:35:45 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uvqi4i$2503c$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:29:22 on Thu, 18 Apr
>>> 2024, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 16/04/2024 18:36, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> The breakdown affected the rail network, with ScotRail unable to run
>>>>>> trains between Fort William and Mallaig.
>>>>>
>>>>> I presume WCR will have to pay compensation for blocking the line?
>>>>
>>>> I believe charter services are exempt from paying for delays, on the
>>>> grounds that it would put them out of business. There was some kerfuffle
>>>> about this a couple of years ago when it was proposed to bring them into
>>>> scope. Unfortunately I can’t find any references to this at the moment.
>>>> Google seems to be becoming increasingly less useful of late.
>>>
>>> It's not a regular charter, though, because they've contracted to
>>> several paths over the same track every day. Feels much more like
>>> "Open Access".
>>
>> Yes, I agree.
>>
>>
>
>Don’t open access operators have to accept Anytime any permitted route
>tickets?
>
>The Jacobite contact (at least as of 2020) is here
>
>https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/default/files/om/s18-wcrc-directed-contract.pdf
>
>I’m no wiser as to whether or not it is a charter service, other than the
>word charter appears 6 times in this rather opaque document.

Yes, it does look like NR treats it as a charter service.

In fact, any service using heritage stock probably has to be treated as a charter; a lot of accessibility and safety
rules would kick in if it was a normal scheduled service. Charters are allowed much lower standards, on the basis that
people who book tickets on a heritage charter train know not to expect contemporary train standards for accessibility,
signage, announcements, etc.