The Chester-Northwich-Manchester line turns east at Altrincham and goes
via Stockport to Manchester Piccadilly. The more direct
Altrincham-Sale-Piccadilly line is now used by the trams.

When did the Altrincham-Stockport line open/re-open to passengers? It's
not shown on my 1988 timetable map, so I imagine it's after that. Did it
open as a result of the tram taking over the Sale route, or were the two
events separate from each other?

When did the Hazel Grove curve open, which allows express
Manchester-Sheffield trains to use the "middle" line through New Mills
(the without a station on it), instead of expresses having to use the
route through Marple and New Mills Central which the stoppers use? Prior
to the Hazel Grove curve, was there ever a different route for expresses
- apart from the Woodhead route, of course!

NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> The Chester-Northwich-Manchester line turns east at Altrincham and goes
> via Stockport to Manchester Piccadilly. The more direct
> Altrincham-Sale-Piccadilly line is now used by the trams.
>
> When did the Altrincham-Stockport line open/re-open to passengers? It's
> not shown on my 1988 timetable map, so I imagine it's after that. Did it
> open as a result of the tram taking over the Sale route, or were the two
> events separate from each other?

Yes, it was as a result of the trams taking over the direct route via Sale.
The last heavy rail service on the original route was on 24/12/1991. I
believe the diverted route took 10 minutes longer.

https://www.lrta.info/archive/Manchester/timeline.html

On 14/04/2024 19:25, NY wrote:
> The Chester-Northwich-Manchester line turns east at Altrincham and goes
> via Stockport to Manchester Piccadilly. The more direct
> Altrincham-Sale-Piccadilly line is now used by the trams.
>
> When did the Altrincham-Stockport line open/re-open to passengers? It's
> not shown on my 1988 timetable map, so I imagine it's after that. Did it
> open as a result of the tram taking over the Sale route, or were the two
> events separate from each other?
>
> When did the Hazel Grove curve open, which allows express
> Manchester-Sheffield trains to use the "middle" line through New Mills
> (the  without a station on it), instead of expresses having to use the
> route through Marple and New Mills Central which the stoppers use? Prior
> to the Hazel Grove curve, was there ever a different route for expresses
> - apart from the Woodhead route, of course!

Metrolink Manchester to Altrincham opened in 1992, replacing the "heavy
rail" service.

Parts of the Altrincham - Stockport route had been used by the CLC route
from Liverpool Central, Warrington Central to Stockport Tiviot Dale -
closed in the 1960s (Marples/Beeching).

The line also once had an LNWR service which leaves the CLC route at
Northenden Junction - and ran to Stockport (Edgeley); this lost regular
local passenger services as a WW1 economy, but regained services in
1992. These had mostly run from Warrington Bank Quay Low Level via Lymm,
with a connection from Altrincham .

The Hazel Grove "chord" (curve) opened in 1986.

Some services had previously run from Manchester Central - many via
Stockport Tiviot Dale - to Chinley, Hope Valley and Sheffield Midland.
These were mostly local services, with express services mostly confined
to summer Saturdays.

On 14/04/2024 19:25, NY wrote:
> When did the Hazel Grove curve open, which allows express
> Manchester-Sheffield trains to use the "middle" line through New Mills
> (the without a station on it), instead of expresses having to use the
> route through Marple and New Mills Central which the stoppers use?
Wonkipaedia says 1986. As well as being faster, it allows Manchester -
Sheffield trains to stop at Stockport and gives easier access to the through
platforms at Piccadilly.

On 14/04/2024 21:43, Roger Lynn wrote:
> On 14/04/2024 19:25, NY wrote:
>> When did the Hazel Grove curve open, which allows express
>> Manchester-Sheffield trains to use the "middle" line through New Mills
>> (the one without a station on it), instead of expresses having to use the
>> route through Marple and New Mills Central which the stoppers use?
> Wonkipaedia says 1986. As well as being faster, it allows Manchester -
> Sheffield trains to stop at Stockport and gives easier access to the through
> platforms at Piccadilly.

Yes, it allows Sheffield to Stockport journeys without needing to go
into Picc and then out to Stockport. I'm surprised it wasn't done many
years ago to allow that link, but then the Oxford-Bletchley and
Banbury-High Wycombe lines crossed at Bicester but had no link until the
recent Gavray curve. All down to different railway companies in pre-BR
days, presumably.

On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 19:25:07 +0100, NY wrote:
> When did the Altrincham-Stockport line open/re-open to passengers? It's
> not shown on my 1988 timetable map, so I imagine it's after that. Did it
> open as a result of the tram taking over the Sale route, or were the two
> events separate from each other?

It was definitely done as part of the Metrolink works (at that point they
were most insistent it wasn't a tram). The line between Altrincham and
Timperley used to be a normal twin-track line, but was converted to two
single lines (one tram, one NR) as part of the tram conversion. Which
meant trams going over the full-barrier crossing at Navigation Road every
few minutes, which must have kept the signaller there busy.

> When did the Hazel Grove curve open, which allows express
> Manchester-Sheffield trains to use the "middle" line through New Mills
> (the without a station on it), instead of expresses having to use the
> route through Marple and New Mills Central which the stoppers use? Prior
> to the Hazel Grove curve, was there ever a different route for expresses
> - apart from the Woodhead route, of course!

I doubt there would have been expresses on the Hope Valley line until the
Woodhead line closed. But the traditional Midland Railway line into
Manchester would be to go straight ahead at Hazel Grove High Level, and
through Didsbury (now Metrolink) to Manchester Central. Picadilly (then
London Road) was the LNWR and GC station, so Midland trains wouldn't go
there, and the Midland had its own Stockport station, Tiviot Dale, so
there was no need for a connection.

Mike