<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>

Quote: A spokesperson said a freight train travelling on to the West Ealing
goods loop "passed a red signal, and three wheels of the locomotive came
off the tracks".

Just curious: is it possible for an did number of wheels to come off the
track? From the photo, it looks like all three axles (ie, six wheels) of
the leading bogie are off the tracks.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>
>
> Quote: A spokesperson said a freight train travelling on to the West Ealing
> goods loop "passed a red signal, and three wheels of the locomotive came
> off the tracks".
>
> Just curious: is it possible for an did number of wheels to come off the
> track? From the photo, it looks like all three axles (ie, six wheels) of
> the leading bogie are off the tracks.
>

Typo, of course: odd number

On Fri, 05 Apr 2024 10:01:14 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>

Catch points did their job.

On 05/04/2024 11:01, Recliner wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>
>
> Quote: A spokesperson said a freight train travelling on to the West Ealing
> goods loop "passed a red signal, and three wheels of the locomotive came
> off the tracks".
>
> Just curious: is it possible for an did number of wheels to come off the
> track? From the photo, it looks like all three axles (ie, six wheels) of
> the leading bogie are off the tracks.

Illiterate sub-editor I suspect. The photo wasn't on the page when I
first saw it.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 05/04/2024 11:04, Recliner wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>
>>
>> Quote: A spokesperson said a freight train travelling on to the West Ealing
>> goods loop "passed a red signal, and three wheels of the locomotive came
>> off the tracks".
>>
>> Just curious: is it possible for an did number of wheels to come off the
>> track? From the photo, it looks like all three axles (ie, six wheels) of
>> the leading bogie are off the tracks.
>>
>
> Typo, of course: odd number
>

Looks like it went through a set of catch points so the whole leading
bogie is in the dirt. Wouldn't have thought it was that difficult a
recovery. Don't see why it should have affected the passenger services,
it is well clear of the running lines and the actually recovery could
easily wait till a quiet time.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 05/04/2024 11:01, Recliner wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>
>>
>> Quote: A spokesperson said a freight train travelling on to the West Ealing
>> goods loop "passed a red signal, and three wheels of the locomotive came
>> off the tracks".
>>
>> Just curious: is it possible for an did number of wheels to come off the
>> track? From the photo, it looks like all three axles (ie, six wheels) of
>> the leading bogie are off the tracks.
>
> Illiterate sub-editor I suspect. The photo wasn't on the page when I
> first saw it.
>

It looks like the error originated in NR, not the Beeb. The Telegraph
reports says:

"A freight train travelling to Reading from London Paddington passed a red
signal near West Ealing at 6.10am, and three wheels of the locomotive came
off the track, according to Network Rail. There were no injuries."

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>
>
> Quote: A spokesperson said a freight train travelling on to the West Ealing
> goods loop "passed a red signal, and three wheels of the locomotive came
> off the tracks".
>
> Just curious: is it possible for an did number of wheels to come off the
> track? From the photo, it looks like all three axles (ie, six wheels) of
> the leading bogie are off the tracks.

Depends on your definition of 'tracks'. Six wheels came off the running
rails; three went on the track into the cess (/down the
embankment/whatever), the other three came to rest on the track in between
the running rails.

Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>
> >
> > Quote: A spokesperson said a freight train travelling on to the West Ealing
> > goods loop "passed a red signal, and three wheels of the locomotive came
> > off the tracks".
> >
> > Just curious: is it possible for an did number of wheels to come off the
> > track? From the photo, it looks like all three axles (ie, six wheels) of
> > the leading bogie are off the tracks.
>
> Depends on your definition of 'tracks'. Six wheels came off the running
> rails; three went on the track into the cess (/down the
> embankment/whatever), the other three came to rest on the track in between
> the running rails.

Typo, I should have typed 'went off the track'

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>
>>>
>>> Quote: A spokesperson said a freight train travelling on to the West Ealing
>>> goods loop "passed a red signal, and three wheels of the locomotive came
>>> off the tracks".
>>>
>>> Just curious: is it possible for an did number of wheels to come off the
>>> track? From the photo, it looks like all three axles (ie, six wheels) of
>>> the leading bogie are off the tracks.
>>
>> Depends on your definition of 'tracks'. Six wheels came off the running
>> rails; three went on the track into the cess (/down the
>> embankment/whatever), the other three came to rest on the track in between
>> the running rails.
>
> Typo, I should have typed 'went off the track'
>

Incidentally, here's another end-on photo showing where the wheels
ended-up:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKY6zLCXsAAGmLp?format=jpg&name=small

On 05/04/2024 11:04, Recliner wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>
>>
>> Quote: A spokesperson said a freight train travelling on to the West Ealing
>> goods loop "passed a red signal, and three wheels of the locomotive came
>> off the tracks".
>>
>> Just curious: is it possible for an did number of wheels to come off the
>> track? From the photo, it looks like all three axles (ie, six wheels) of
>> the leading bogie are off the tracks.
>>
>
> Typo, of course: odd number
>
I think it is possible for three wheels to become off the track at a
switch. Consider that one wheel could remain on the moving section of
track while the other wheel on the same axle could be on the ballast.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>
>
> Quote: A spokesperson said a freight train travelling on to the West Ealing
> goods loop "passed a red signal, and three wheels of the locomotive came
> off the tracks".
>
> Just curious: is it possible for an did number of wheels to come off the
> track? From the photo, it looks like all three axles (ie, six wheels) of
> the leading bogie are off the tracks.
>

I suppose if you had a one rail go wide to gauge 3 wheels might drop onto
the dirt but leave 3 on the other rail though normally you would expect
them to come off as well.
Could happen if those wheels were held in position by a check rail that is
stopping excessive sideways movement.

GH

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 05/04/2024 11:04, Recliner wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>
>>>
>>> Quote: A spokesperson said a freight train travelling on to the West Ealing
>>> goods loop "passed a red signal, and three wheels of the locomotive came
>>> off the tracks".
>>>
>>> Just curious: is it possible for an did number of wheels to come off the
>>> track? From the photo, it looks like all three axles (ie, six wheels) of
>>> the leading bogie are off the tracks.
>>>
>>
>> Typo, of course: odd number
>>
>
> Looks like it went through a set of catch points so the whole leading
> bogie is in the dirt. Wouldn't have thought it was that difficult a
> recovery. Don't see why it should have affected the passenger services,
> it is well clear of the running lines and the actually recovery could
> easily wait till a quiet time.
>

Maybe there are some reasons why they cannot recover under live overhead
wires and the power isolation would affect other tracks, as for waiting
perhaps GBRf want their engine back or Network Rail Staff are already
rostered on weekend maintenance and to take them off that could cause a
major headache.

GH

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>
>>>>
>>>> Quote: A spokesperson said a freight train travelling on to the West Ealing
>>>> goods loop "passed a red signal, and three wheels of the locomotive came
>>>> off the tracks".
>>>>
>>>> Just curious: is it possible for an did number of wheels to come off the
>>>> track? From the photo, it looks like all three axles (ie, six wheels) of
>>>> the leading bogie are off the tracks.
>>>
>>> Depends on your definition of 'tracks'. Six wheels came off the running
>>> rails; three went on the track into the cess (/down the
>>> embankment/whatever), the other three came to rest on the track in between
>>> the running rails.
>>
>> Typo, I should have typed 'went off the track'
>>
>
> Incidentally, here's another end-on photo showing where the wheels
> ended-up:
>
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKY6zLCXsAAGmLp?format=jpg&name=small

Three wheels went beyond the end of the sleepers. Right.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 05/04/2024 11:52, Recliner wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>
>>>>
>>>> Quote: A spokesperson said a freight train travelling on to the West Ealing
>>>> goods loop "passed a red signal, and three wheels of the locomotive came
>>>> off the tracks".
>>>>
>>>> Just curious: is it possible for an did number of wheels to come off the
>>>> track? From the photo, it looks like all three axles (ie, six wheels) of
>>>> the leading bogie are off the tracks.
>>>
>>> Depends on your definition of 'tracks'. Six wheels came off the running
>>> rails; three went on the track into the cess (/down the
>>> embankment/whatever), the other three came to rest on the track in between
>>> the running rails.
>>
>> Typo, I should have typed 'went off the track'
>>
>
> Incidentally, here's another end-on photo showing where the wheels
> ended-up:
>
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKY6zLCXsAAGmLp?format=jpg&name=small
>

Managed not to foul the Greenford loop anyway.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Fri, 05 Apr 2024 10:01:14 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>
>
>Quote: A spokesperson said a freight train travelling on to the West Ealing
>goods loop "passed a red signal, and three wheels of the locomotive came
>off the tracks".
>
>Just curious: is it possible for an did number of wheels to come off the
>track? From the photo, it looks like all three axles (ie, six wheels) of
>the leading bogie are off the tracks.

Look at the second photo:

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/16E20/production/_133082739_d1961b38-3c0f-4eae-884f-509239f08328.jpg.webp

If this is a set of catch points, as has been suggested elsewhere in the
thread, then it's entirely possible that the right three wheels remained on
the catch track while the left three wheels ended up on the sleepers. You
can see the location of the catch points here:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/gt1gcvwa3EGeMUpG6

and here:

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=ef11b3f2-7cd7-4194-a6b5-06c7ef20f24d&cp=51.513103~-0.325352&lvl=21.597809&style=g&pi=0&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027

Mark

Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Apr 2024 10:01:14 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>
>>
>> Quote: A spokesperson said a freight train travelling on to the West Ealing
>> goods loop "passed a red signal, and three wheels of the locomotive came
>> off the tracks".
>>
>> Just curious: is it possible for an did number of wheels to come off the
>> track? From the photo, it looks like all three axles (ie, six wheels) of
>> the leading bogie are off the tracks.
>
> Look at the second photo:
>
> https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/16E20/production/_133082739_d1961b38-3c0f-4eae-884f-509239f08328.jpg.webp
>
> If this is a set of catch points, as has been suggested elsewhere in the
> thread, then it's entirely possible that the right three wheels remained on
> the catch track while the left three wheels ended up on the sleepers. You
> can see the location of the catch points here:
>
> https://maps.app.goo.gl/gt1gcvwa3EGeMUpG6
>
> and here:
>
> https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=ef11b3f2-7cd7-4194-a6b5-06c7ef20f24d&cp=51.513103~-0.325352&lvl=21.597809&style=g&pi=0&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027

It looks like it ran on, beyond the short catch rail, so by the time it
stopped, none of the six front bogie wheels were still on a rail.

On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 11:15:47 +0100, Graeme Wall
<rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 05/04/2024 11:04, Recliner wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>
>>>
>>> Quote: A spokesperson said a freight train travelling on to the West Ealing
>>> goods loop "passed a red signal, and three wheels of the locomotive came
>>> off the tracks".
>>>
>>> Just curious: is it possible for an did number of wheels to come off the
>>> track? From the photo, it looks like all three axles (ie, six wheels) of
>>> the leading bogie are off the tracks.
>>>
>>
>> Typo, of course: odd number
>>
>
>Looks like it went through a set of catch points so the whole leading
>bogie is in the dirt. Wouldn't have thought it was that difficult a
>recovery. Don't see why it should have affected the passenger services,
>it is well clear of the running lines and the actually recovery could
>easily wait till a quiet time.

Maybe the points from loop to up relief are failing detection?

On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 10:30:42 +0100
Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 11:15:47 +0100, Graeme Wall
><rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 05/04/2024 11:04, Recliner wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>
>>>>
>>>> Quote: A spokesperson said a freight train travelling on to the West Ealing
>
>>>> goods loop "passed a red signal, and three wheels of the locomotive came
>>>> off the tracks".
>>>>
>>>> Just curious: is it possible for an did number of wheels to come off the
>>>> track? From the photo, it looks like all three axles (ie, six wheels) of
>>>> the leading bogie are off the tracks.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Typo, of course: odd number
>>>
>>
>>Looks like it went through a set of catch points so the whole leading
>>bogie is in the dirt. Wouldn't have thought it was that difficult a
>>recovery. Don't see why it should have affected the passenger services,
>>it is well clear of the running lines and the actually recovery could
>>easily wait till a quiet time.
>
>Maybe the points from loop to up relief are failing detection?

The dilemma of workmen everywhere:

1) Make life hard for yourself but easier for the general public or
2) Make your life easier and screw the public

1 is never selected.

On 06/04/2024 10:30, Ken wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 11:15:47 +0100, Graeme Wall
> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 05/04/2024 11:04, Recliner wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68738960>
>>>>
>>>> Quote: A spokesperson said a freight train travelling on to the West Ealing
>>>> goods loop "passed a red signal, and three wheels of the locomotive came
>>>> off the tracks".
>>>>
>>>> Just curious: is it possible for an did number of wheels to come off the
>>>> track? From the photo, it looks like all three axles (ie, six wheels) of
>>>> the leading bogie are off the tracks.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Typo, of course: odd number
>>>
>>
>> Looks like it went through a set of catch points so the whole leading
>> bogie is in the dirt. Wouldn't have thought it was that difficult a
>> recovery. Don't see why it should have affected the passenger services,
>> it is well clear of the running lines and the actually recovery could
>> easily wait till a quiet time.
>
> Maybe the points from loop to up relief are failing detection?

Didn't get close to them and they were set for the relief line before
the incident.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.