Dear all

Lots of media excitement here in Liverpool over the govt "announcement" [if
that's what it was] that there will be some £££ for a faster rail link with
Manchester.

Obviously highly desirable, and there are suggestions that it will be routed
via WBQ, which obviously opens up interesting options for connections north-
and south-bound.

But what I want to know is: how will it get from the city centre [?? Lime St
??] to WBQ? The powerhouse website doesn't seem to tell us. Any info /
suggestions ? A connection at Parkway would obviously be helpful to those of
us who regard Merseyrail as the backbone of the city region.

TIA

Ken W

On 27/03/2024 18:32, Ken W wrote:
> Dear all
>
> Lots of media excitement here in Liverpool over the govt "announcement" [if
> that's what it was] that there will be some £££ for a faster rail link with
> Manchester.
>
> Obviously highly desirable, and there are suggestions that it will be routed
> via WBQ, which obviously opens up interesting options for connections north-
> and south-bound.
>
> But what I want to know is: how will it get from the city centre [?? Lime St
> ??] to WBQ? The powerhouse website doesn't seem to tell us. Any info /
> suggestions ? A connection at Parkway would obviously be helpful to those of
> us who regard Merseyrail as the backbone of the city region.
>
> TIA
>
> Ken W

You probably know just as much as the rest of us; at present it is all
speculation. The only thing seems to be that East of Warrington, they
seem to want it to serve both Manchester Airport and Manchester city
centre, so that part would probably have to use the route proposed for HS2.

From Liverpool, there seem to be several possibilities.
1. Use Lime Street; removing the internal roadway would create space for
two extra (reinstated) platforms. Otherwise, a new undergound station
seems the only option.

2. Use the existing lines through the cutting from Lime Street as far as
Edge Hill, then close the carriage sidings, and realign / make a new
connection to the existing slow lines at Wavertree Junction. Upgrade /
realign the slow lines as far as Ditton Junction, hopefully permitting
up to 100 mph.

Continue along the currently freight only line from Ditton to
Warrington; realigned where necessary to permit higher speeds, and
rebuild the former platforms at Bank Quay Low Level. With some timetable
adjustments, I think they could probably fit at least 2 extra trains
(each way) per hour between Lime street & Edge Hill.

3. Trying to use the current (High Level) platforms at Bank Quay would
probably involve some "difficult" (i.e. curved / slow ) connecting lines.

4. From Bank Quay Low Level, continue partly on the old alignment
towards Lymm, and then a completely new alignment towards Manchester
Airport, probably partly in tunnel.

5. If option 2 is impracticable, the only option seems to involve a long
(expensive) new tunnel, emerging somewhere to the East of Huyton,
Netherley or Halewood, and continuing to Warrington.

It would be impracticable to try and widen the cutting between Lime
Street and Edge Hill; apart from the cost of compulsory purchase of
property, safety considerations would require the cutting (and hence
Lime Street Station) to be closed for several years whilst work proceeded.

But - that is just my speculation. What - if anything - actually happens
remains to be seen.

On 27 Mar 2024 at 20:45:52 GMT, "Bevan Price" <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 27/03/2024 18:32, Ken W wrote:
>> Dear all
>>
>> Lots of media excitement here in Liverpool over the govt "announcement" [if
>> that's what it was] that there will be some £££ for a faster rail link with
>> Manchester.
>>
>> Obviously highly desirable, and there are suggestions that it will be routed
>> via WBQ, which obviously opens up interesting options for connections north-
>> and south-bound.
>>
>> But what I want to know is: how will it get from the city centre [?? Lime St
>> ??] to WBQ? The powerhouse website doesn't seem to tell us. Any info /
>> suggestions ? A connection at Parkway would obviously be helpful to those of
>> us who regard Merseyrail as the backbone of the city region.
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Ken W
>
> You probably know just as much as the rest of us; at present it is all
> speculation. The only thing seems to be that East of Warrington, they
> seem to want it to serve both Manchester Airport and Manchester city
> centre, so that part would probably have to use the route proposed for HS2.
>
> From Liverpool, there seem to be several possibilities.
> 1. Use Lime Street; removing the internal roadway would create space for
> two extra (reinstated) platforms. Otherwise, a new undergound station
> seems the only option.
>
> 2. Use the existing lines through the cutting from Lime Street as far as
> Edge Hill, then close the carriage sidings, and realign / make a new
> connection to the existing slow lines at Wavertree Junction. Upgrade /
> realign the slow lines as far as Ditton Junction, hopefully permitting
> up to 100 mph.
>
> Continue along the currently freight only line from Ditton to
> Warrington; realigned where necessary to permit higher speeds, and
> rebuild the former platforms at Bank Quay Low Level. With some timetable
> adjustments, I think they could probably fit at least 2 extra trains
> (each way) per hour between Lime street & Edge Hill.
>
> 3. Trying to use the current (High Level) platforms at Bank Quay would
> probably involve some "difficult" (i.e. curved / slow ) connecting lines.
>
> 4. From Bank Quay Low Level, continue partly on the old alignment
> towards Lymm, and then a completely new alignment towards Manchester
> Airport, probably partly in tunnel.
>
> 5. If option 2 is impracticable, the only option seems to involve a long
> (expensive) new tunnel, emerging somewhere to the East of Huyton,
> Netherley or Halewood, and continuing to Warrington.
>
> It would be impracticable to try and widen the cutting between Lime
> Street and Edge Hill; apart from the cost of compulsory purchase of
> property, safety considerations would require the cutting (and hence
> Lime Street Station) to be closed for several years whilst work proceeded.
>
> But - that is just my speculation. What - if anything - actually happens
> remains to be seen.

Latest reports from local media are that funding could be found for a new city
centre station linked to both Lime St and Central.

This would serve both Merseyrail and "main line" services relieving congestion
at Central and freeing capacity at Lime St for the proposed fast services to
Manchester and beyond via WBQ. A couple of locals have suggested that the
street-level entrance / passenger service area could be provided on the former
cinema site at the corner of Lime St and Elliot St but I don't think planning
has got to this stage as yet.

AIUI a couple of lines which currently serve Lime St [? Northern services to
Wigan and Manchester via St Helens Jn etc ?] would be burrowed/extended into
the new station, with a pedestrian subway serving new platforms on Merseyrail
Northern line – a few yards north of the existing Central platform. This would
relieve congestion on the island platform at Central and free capacity at Lime
St for the new fast service to Manchester.
[NB this is third-party info so maybe simply somewhere between wish list and
informed speculation]

So far as WBQ is concerned, I'm sure Bevan is correct re the use of the low
level.