<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>

Makes a change from the Underground challenge
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>
>Makes a change from the Underground challenge

But "all stations" was done a few years ago.

Although this chap claims to have got off-and-on at *every* station,
which is new. And quite a challenge for those stations with one train a
day (Shippey Hill) or one a week (Denton).
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>
>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>
> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.
>
> Although this chap claims to have got off-and-on at *every* station,
> which is new. And quite a challenge for those stations with one train a
> day (Shippey Hill) or one a week (Denton).

Yes, I think Geoff counted stations where the train either did, or would
stop if requested, but didn't necessarily step on the platform.

In message <%ogON.29863$lu2.9975@fx15.ams1>, at 16:43:39 on Sun, 31 Mar
2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>>
>>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>>
>> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.
>>
>> Although this chap claims to have got off-and-on at *every* station,
>> which is new. And quite a challenge for those stations with one train a
>> day (Shippey Hill) or one a week (Denton).
>
>Yes, I think Geoff counted stations where the train either did, or would
>stop if requested, but didn't necessarily step on the platform.

I think he only used the platform at places where he was first boarding,
or finally getting off, a train. He did Shippea Hill by staying the
night in Ely then getting a lift there at crack of dawn to get on the
train which had a few minutes before departed Ely for Norwich. Where he
was met by a crowd of supporters (because he published the schedule in
advance).

And getting a train to stop at every request stop to get off and on
again is going to piss off the crew pretty quickly!
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <%ogON.29863$lu2.9975@fx15.ams1>, at 16:43:39 on Sun, 31 Mar
> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>>>
>>>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>>>
>>> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.
>>>
>>> Although this chap claims to have got off-and-on at *every* station,
>>> which is new. And quite a challenge for those stations with one train a
>>> day (Shippey Hill) or one a week (Denton).
>>
>> Yes, I think Geoff counted stations where the train either did, or would
>> stop if requested, but didn't necessarily step on the platform.
>
> I think he only used the platform at places where he was first boarding,
> or finally getting off, a train.

I think he did sometimes get off briefly, but only if the train was
stopping anyway.

> He did Shippea Hill by staying the
> night in Ely then getting a lift there at crack of dawn to get on the
> train which had a few minutes before departed Ely for Norwich. Where he
> was met by a crowd of supporters (because he published the schedule in
> advance).
>
> And getting a train to stop at every request stop to get off and on
> again is going to piss off the crew pretty quickly!

Yes, he mentioned that he didn't want to be a nuisance to the railway.

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:16:33 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <%ogON.29863$lu2.9975@fx15.ams1>, at 16:43:39 on Sun, 31 Mar
>2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>>>
>>>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>>>
>>> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.
>>>
>>> Although this chap claims to have got off-and-on at *every* station,
>>> which is new. And quite a challenge for those stations with one train a
>>> day (Shippey Hill) or one a week (Denton).
>>
>>Yes, I think Geoff counted stations where the train either did, or would
>>stop if requested, but didn't necessarily step on the platform.
>
>I think he only used the platform at places where he was first boarding,
>or finally getting off, a train. He did Shippea Hill by staying the
>night in Ely then getting a lift there at crack of dawn to get on the
>train which had a few minutes before departed Ely for Norwich. Where he
>was met by a crowd of supporters (because he published the schedule in
>advance).
>
>And getting a train to stop at every request stop to get off and on
>again is going to piss off the crew pretty quickly!
>
Being a railway worker himself and doing it for charity would probably
have got them in on the game if they knew he was coming.

On 31.03.2024 18:34, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>
>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>
> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.

And of course "all the stations" is now a different set, as several
station have opened since, and I think a couple have closed.

> Although this chap claims to have got off-and-on at *every* station,
> which is new. And quite a challenge for those stations with one train a
> day (Shippey Hill) or one a week (Denton).

Geoff's rules required that the train he was on had to stop at a station
for it to count (my recollection is he did not enforce a stop at request
stops if nobody else using the train wanted the stop). The linked
article suggests this guy worked with the rule that he had to at least
set foot on a platform, but there was no restriction on departing with
the same train he arrived on, so it doesn't seem to be a different set
of rules in a meaningful sense.

Robin

On 02/04/2024 08:13, Bob wrote:
> On 31.03.2024 18:34, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>>
>>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>>
>> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.
>
> And of course "all the stations" is now a different set, as several
> station have opened since, and I think a couple have closed.
>
>> Although this chap claims to have got off-and-on at *every* station,
>> which is new. And quite a challenge for those stations with one train
>> a day (Shippey Hill) or one a week (Denton).
>
> Geoff's rules required that the train he was on had to stop at a station
> for it to count (my recollection is he did not enforce a stop at request
> stops if nobody else using the train wanted the stop). The linked
> article suggests this guy worked with the rule that he had to at least
> set foot on a platform, but there was no restriction on departing with
> the same train he arrived on, so it doesn't seem to be a different set
> of rules in a meaningful sense.

Except that stopping the train at every request halt will annoy the
train crew and other passengers. There may also be edge cases with
visiting pick-up- or set-down-only stations where getting on and off
would technically not be permitted, but staying on would. (I realise
that these are almost never request stops.)

In message <uugb7n$32ere$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:13:59 on Tue, 2 Apr
2024, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>On 31.03.2024 18:34, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>>
>>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.
>
>And of course "all the stations" is now a different set, as several
>station have opened since, and I think a couple have closed.

I don't think that changes the challenge very much, unless there are
newly-opened stations on lines which have also had a newly-introduced
passenger service.

>> Although this chap claims to have got off-and-on at *every* station,
>>which is new. And quite a challenge for those stations with one train
>>a day (Shippey Hill) or one a week (Denton).
>
>Geoff's rules required that the train he was on had to stop at a
>station for it to count

I forgotten it was restrictive as that. But I suppose that explains why
he he was forced to get the one train a day that stops at Shippea Hill
(the regular 1tph service being non-stopping).

>(my recollection is he did not enforce a stop at request stops if
>nobody else using the train wanted the stop).

Did he count the station anyway?

>The linked article suggests this guy worked with the rule that he had
>to at least set foot on a platform, but there was no restriction on
>departing with the same train he arrived on,

Clearly an essential rule when arriving at a terminus.

I wonder if they counted St Pancras as one, or three, stations?

>so it doesn't seem to be a different set of rules in a meaningful
>sense.
>
>Robin

--
Roland Perry

In message <uugcu3$3306f$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:42:59 on Tue, 2 Apr
2024, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>On 02/04/2024 08:13, Bob wrote:
>> On 31.03.2024 18:34, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31
>>>Mar 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>>>
>>>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>>>
>>> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.

>> And of course "all the stations" is now a different set, as several
>>station have opened since, and I think a couple have closed.
>>
>>> Although this chap claims to have got off-and-on at *every* station,
>>>which is new. And quite a challenge for those stations with one train
>>>a day (Shippey Hill) or one a week (Denton).

>> Geoff's rules required that the train he was on had to stop at a
>>station for it to count (my recollection is he did not enforce a stop
>>at request stops if nobody else using the train wanted the stop). The
>>linked article suggests this guy worked with the rule that he had to
>>at least set foot on a platform, but there was no restriction on
>>departing with the same train he arrived on, so it doesn't seem to be
>>a different set of rules in a meaningful sense.
>
>Except that stopping the train at every request halt will annoy the
>train crew and other passengers. There may also be edge cases with
>visiting pick-up- or set-down-only stations where getting on and off
>would technically not be permitted,

Typically that's only some services at the station. For example from
time to time at Stevenage for InterCity, but no restriction on local
services.

>but staying on would. (I realise that these are almost never request
>stops.)
>

--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 08:59:23 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <uugb7n$32ere$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:13:59 on Tue, 2 Apr
>2024, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>On 31.03.2024 18:34, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>>2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>>>
>>>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>>> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.
>>
>>And of course "all the stations" is now a different set, as several
>>station have opened since, and I think a couple have closed.
>
>I don't think that changes the challenge very much, unless there are
>newly-opened stations on lines which have also had a newly-introduced
>passenger service.

I wonder where the boundaries are with the Liz Line? Clearly going all the
way out to Reading and back won't be on the cards but would they just do the
underground bits or everything inside the zones?

In message <uugf5f$33jjt$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:21:04 on Tue, 2 Apr
2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 08:59:23 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <uugb7n$32ere$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:13:59 on Tue, 2 Apr
>>2024, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>>On 31.03.2024 18:34, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>>>2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>>>>
>>>>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>>>> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.
>>>
>>>And of course "all the stations" is now a different set, as several
>>>station have opened since, and I think a couple have closed.
>>
>>I don't think that changes the challenge very much, unless there are
>>newly-opened stations on lines which have also had a newly-introduced
>>passenger service.
>
>I wonder where the boundaries are with the Liz Line? Clearly going all the
>way out to Reading and back won't be on the cards but would they just do the
>underground bits or everything inside the zones?

That sounds like a consideration for the "Underground" challenge, not
the "All stations". But let's humour you on this latest goalpost shift.

It's just UndergrounD stations, so excludes the Elizabeth Line. Recent
chatter suggests that the Northern Line extension to Battersea Power
Station Station means it's impossible to beat any earlier records.

Of course all the Liz Line stations in Z1 will be visited anyway (being
interchanges with UndergrounD) and there's no prohibition on using Liz
Line as a way to hop from one UndergrounD section to another.
--
Roland Perry

Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
> On 31.03.2024 18:34, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>>
>>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>>
>> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.
>
> And of course "all the stations" is now a different set, as several
> station have opened since, and I think a couple have closed.
>
>> Although this chap claims to have got off-and-on at *every* station,
>> which is new. And quite a challenge for those stations with one train a
>> day (Shippey Hill) or one a week (Denton).
>
> Geoff's rules required that the train he was on had to stop at a station
> for it to count (my recollection is he did not enforce a stop at request
> stops if nobody else using the train wanted the stop).

Specifically, Geoff counted that station if the train would stop there if
requested, with no requirement that he actually requested a stop. So there
would have been a number of stations that he counted without the train
actually stopping. I think this was part of his deal with the railway.

On 02/04/2024 09:02, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <uugcu3$3306f$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:42:59 on Tue, 2 Apr
> 2024, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>> On 02/04/2024 08:13, Bob wrote:
>>> On 31.03.2024 18:34, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31
>>>> Mar  2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>>>>
>>>>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>>>>
>>>> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.
>
>>>  And of course "all the stations" is now a different set, as several
>>> station have opened since, and I think a couple have closed.
>>>
>>>> Although this chap claims to have got off-and-on at *every* station,
>>>> which is new. And quite a challenge for those stations with one
>>>> train a day (Shippey Hill) or one a week (Denton).
>
>>>  Geoff's rules required that the train he was on had to stop at a
>>> station  for it to count (my recollection is he did not enforce a
>>> stop at request  stops if nobody else using the train wanted the
>>> stop). The linked  article suggests this guy worked with the rule
>>> that he had to at least  set foot on a platform, but there was no
>>> restriction on departing with  the same train he arrived on, so it
>>> doesn't seem to be a different set  of rules in a meaningful sense.
>>
>> Except that stopping the train at every request halt will annoy the
>> train crew and other passengers.  There may also be edge cases with
>> visiting pick-up- or set-down-only stations where getting on and off
>> would technically not be permitted,
>
> Typically that's only some services at the station. For example from
> time to time at Stevenage for InterCity, but no restriction on local
> services.
>
>> but staying on would.  (I realise that these are almost never request
>> stops.)

Yes, I meant pick-up- or set-down-only calls. Depending on the exact
rules of the challenge, they might require getting off an express and
waiting for the local stopper behind. I doubt that there's such a thing
as a literal set-down-only station, where one may never board any train,
though there will be a few like Moorfields (Liverpool) where getting off
is much more useful than getting on.

On Tue, 02 Apr 2024 03:21:35 +0100, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:16:33 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <%ogON.29863$lu2.9975@fx15.ams1>, at 16:43:39 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>>>>
>>>>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>>>>
>>>> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.
>>>>
>>>> Although this chap claims to have got off-and-on at *every* station,
>>>> which is new. And quite a challenge for those stations with one train a
>>>> day (Shippey Hill) or one a week (Denton).
>>>
>>>Yes, I think Geoff counted stations where the train either did, or would
>>>stop if requested, but didn't necessarily step on the platform.
>>
>>I think he only used the platform at places where he was first boarding,
>>or finally getting off, a train. He did Shippea Hill by staying the
>>night in Ely then getting a lift there at crack of dawn to get on the
>>train which had a few minutes before departed Ely for Norwich. Where he
>>was met by a crowd of supporters (because he published the schedule in
>>advance).
>>
>>And getting a train to stop at every request stop to get off and on
>>again is going to piss off the crew pretty quickly!
>>
>Being a railway worker himself and doing it for charity would probably
>have got them in on the game if they knew he was coming.

They still wouldn't want to disrupt the timetable by stopping at more stops than usual.

On 02.04.2024 09:42, Certes wrote:
> On 02/04/2024 08:13, Bob wrote:
>> On 31.03.2024 18:34, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>>>
>>>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>>>
>>> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.
>>
>> And of course "all the stations" is now a different set, as several
>> station have opened since, and I think a couple have closed.
>>
>>> Although this chap claims to have got off-and-on at *every* station,
>>> which is new. And quite a challenge for those stations with one train
>>> a day (Shippey Hill) or one a week (Denton).
>>
>> Geoff's rules required that the train he was on had to stop at a
>> station for it to count (my recollection is he did not enforce a stop
>> at request stops if nobody else using the train wanted the stop). The
>> linked article suggests this guy worked with the rule that he had to
>> at least set foot on a platform, but there was no restriction on
>> departing with the same train he arrived on, so it doesn't seem to be
>> a different set of rules in a meaningful sense.
>
> Except that stopping the train at every request halt will annoy the
> train crew and other passengers.  There may also be edge cases with
> visiting pick-up- or set-down-only stations where getting on and off
> would technically not be permitted, but staying on would.  (I realise
> that these are almost never request stops.)

I'm not sure pick up and set down only stops make any meaningful
difference to completing such a challenge. They almost exclusively exist
as moderately important edge-of-city stations that feature on the local
train networks, and their status as pick up/set down only exists to keep
local travellers off limited stop trains. As the challenge would involve
calling at all the stations served by the local services on the line
anyway, that would "tick off" those stations at basically no extra effort.

Robin

On 31.03.2024 19:16, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <%ogON.29863$lu2.9975@fx15.ams1>, at 16:43:39 on Sun, 31 Mar
> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>>>
>>>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>>>
>>> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.
>>>
>>> Although this chap claims to have got off-and-on at *every* station,
>>> which is new. And quite a challenge for those stations with one train a
>>> day (Shippey Hill) or one a week (Denton).
>>
>> Yes, I think Geoff counted stations where the train either did, or would
>> stop if requested, but didn't necessarily step on the platform.
>
> I think he only used the platform at places where he was first boarding,
> or finally getting off, a train. He did Shippea Hill by staying the
> night in Ely then getting a lift there at crack of dawn to get on the
> train which had a few minutes before departed Ely for Norwich. Where he
> was met by a crowd of supporters (because he published the schedule in
> advance).
>
> And getting a train to stop at every request stop to get off and on
> again is going to piss off the crew pretty quickly!

I see his website for the project is still up, and has a section
outlining his rules:

At each station we had to either arrive or leave on a scheduled train
that was timetabled to stop. Fast trains that passed through did not count.
We did not have to leave the train at every station, but we did get off
at some of the most interesting stations to capture footage of the
surrounding areas.
In England, Wales and Scotland request stops had a special rule. As long
as the train we were on was able to stop, if requested, then we could
count it as having been visited (even if no one actually got off).

So obviously he recognised that being an awkward arse demanding a stop
at every request stop would not go down well, and set his rules accordingly.

Robin

On 02.04.2024 09:59, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <uugb7n$32ere$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:13:59 on Tue, 2 Apr
> 2024, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>> On 31.03.2024 18:34, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>>>
>>>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>>>  But "all stations" was done a few years ago.
>>
>> And of course "all the stations" is now a different set, as several
>> station have opened since, and I think a couple have closed.
>
> I don't think that changes the challenge very much, unless there are
> newly-opened stations on lines which have also had a newly-introduced
> passenger service.

The obvious candidates are Barking Riverside and the Elizabeth line.
Given Geoff's statements about the status of the purple train, I'm
pretty sure he would have counted it (his video episode 13 covered the
Overground, so he did count that at the time).

>>> Although this chap claims to have got off-and-on at *every* station,
>>> which is new. And quite a challenge for those stations with one train
>>> a  day (Shippey Hill) or one a week (Denton).
>>
>> Geoff's rules required that the train he was on had to stop at a
>> station for it to count
>
> I forgotten it was restrictive as that. But I suppose that explains why
> he he was forced to get the one train a day that stops at Shippea Hill
> (the regular 1tph service being non-stopping).
>
>> (my recollection is he did not enforce a stop at request stops if
>> nobody else using the train wanted the stop).
>
> Did he count the station anyway?

He made a carve-out in his rules for request stops. The train had to be
scheduled to serve the station, but in the interests of not messing with
railway operations, if no other passengers requested a particular stop,
it still counted. What wouldn't count would be a train passing through a
request stop that did not feature on its timetable (for example some
trains on the Exmouth line do not allow for stops at Lympstone Commando
or Exton to be requested, so to get those stations involved chosing a
train that did allow for requests there).

>> The linked article suggests this guy worked with the rule that he had
>> to at least set foot on a platform, but there was no restriction on
>> departing with the same train he arrived on,
>
> Clearly an essential rule when arriving at a terminus.

There are plenty of instances on routes in places like 3rd rail inner
suburban land where a unit will be diagrammed in from one route and sent
out on a different one, so depending on how you plan to cover that
collection of lines, it isn't inconceivable for the optimal collection
of journeys to involve arriving and departing on the same physical
train. As diagrams are not generally made available to the public, it
may not be possible to plan for or avoid doing so.

> I wonder if they counted St Pancras as one, or three, stations?

It's pretty hard to get a sensible set of routes that doesn't at least
involve both the Kent platforms and the Thameslink platforms.

When it comes to the way network rail accounts for stations for various
purposes, they are counted as a single entity. There are a fair number
of stations with some platforms that are in some sense physically not
immediately connected with others, and realistically you need a working
definition of what counts as a single station. Using the definition
chosen by Network Rail is a sensible enough choice, otherwise you just
tie yourself up in knots of indecision.

Robin

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Apr 2024 03:21:35 +0100, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:16:33 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <%ogON.29863$lu2.9975@fx15.ams1>, at 16:43:39 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>>>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>>>>>
>>>>> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Although this chap claims to have got off-and-on at *every* station,
>>>>> which is new. And quite a challenge for those stations with one train a
>>>>> day (Shippey Hill) or one a week (Denton).
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I think Geoff counted stations where the train either did, or would
>>>> stop if requested, but didn't necessarily step on the platform.
>>>
>>> I think he only used the platform at places where he was first boarding,
>>> or finally getting off, a train. He did Shippea Hill by staying the
>>> night in Ely then getting a lift there at crack of dawn to get on the
>>> train which had a few minutes before departed Ely for Norwich. Where he
>>> was met by a crowd of supporters (because he published the schedule in
>>> advance).
>>>
>>> And getting a train to stop at every request stop to get off and on
>>> again is going to piss off the crew pretty quickly!
>>>
>> Being a railway worker himself and doing it for charity would probably
>> have got them in on the game if they knew he was coming.
>
> They still wouldn't want to disrupt the timetable by stopping at more stops than usual.

The timetable doesn’t allow for stopping at every request stop? Is there a
quota, do you think?

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 02.04.2024 10:21, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 08:59:23 +0100
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uugb7n$32ere$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:13:59 on Tue, 2 Apr
>> 2024, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>> On 31.03.2024 18:34, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>>>>
>>>>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>>>> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.
>>>
>>> And of course "all the stations" is now a different set, as several
>>> station have opened since, and I think a couple have closed.
>>
>> I don't think that changes the challenge very much, unless there are
>> newly-opened stations on lines which have also had a newly-introduced
>> passenger service.
>
> I wonder where the boundaries are with the Liz Line? Clearly going all the
> way out to Reading and back won't be on the cards but would they just do the
> underground bits or everything inside the zones?

The only way to arrive at the stated number of 2580 stations is to use
the ORR method of determining what is and is not a station, which
includes both Overground and Elizabeth line stations within that total.

As the Elizebeth line service pattern subsumed both the Shenfield and
Maidenhead inner suburban all stations stopping patterns, there are a
number of stations on those lines for which the Elizabeth line is the
only service to stop there.

Robin

On 02/04/2024 19:14, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 02 Apr 2024 03:21:35 +0100, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:16:33 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <%ogON.29863$lu2.9975@fx15.ams1>, at 16:43:39 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>>>>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Although this chap claims to have got off-and-on at *every* station,
>>>>>> which is new. And quite a challenge for those stations with one train a
>>>>>> day (Shippey Hill) or one a week (Denton).
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I think Geoff counted stations where the train either did, or would
>>>>> stop if requested, but didn't necessarily step on the platform.
>>>>
>>>> I think he only used the platform at places where he was first boarding,
>>>> or finally getting off, a train. He did Shippea Hill by staying the
>>>> night in Ely then getting a lift there at crack of dawn to get on the
>>>> train which had a few minutes before departed Ely for Norwich. Where he
>>>> was met by a crowd of supporters (because he published the schedule in
>>>> advance).
>>>>
>>>> And getting a train to stop at every request stop to get off and on
>>>> again is going to piss off the crew pretty quickly!
>>>>
>>> Being a railway worker himself and doing it for charity would probably
>>> have got them in on the game if they knew he was coming.
>>
>> They still wouldn't want to disrupt the timetable by stopping at more stops than usual.
>
> The timetable doesn’t allow for stopping at every request stop? Is there a
> quota, do you think?

It'll be probabilistic. The planners will have observed that the 12:34
typically stops at two of the ten request halts, and timed it so that it
arrives on time if that happens. If it stops everywhere, it'll be late.

In message <uuhhd6$3bm0o$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:05:26 on Tue, 2 Apr
2024, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:

>As diagrams are not generally made available to the public, it may not
>be possible to plan for or avoid doing so.

They can trivially be reverse engineered from sites like Realtimetrains.
Which even have annotations sometimes regarding which inbound service an
outbound one is formed from. So not just looking at platform numbers.
--
Roland Perry

Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
> On 02/04/2024 19:14, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 02 Apr 2024 03:21:35 +0100, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:16:33 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <%ogON.29863$lu2.9975@fx15.ams1>, at 16:43:39 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>>>>>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Although this chap claims to have got off-and-on at *every* station,
>>>>>>> which is new. And quite a challenge for those stations with one train a
>>>>>>> day (Shippey Hill) or one a week (Denton).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I think Geoff counted stations where the train either did, or would
>>>>>> stop if requested, but didn't necessarily step on the platform.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think he only used the platform at places where he was first boarding,
>>>>> or finally getting off, a train. He did Shippea Hill by staying the
>>>>> night in Ely then getting a lift there at crack of dawn to get on the
>>>>> train which had a few minutes before departed Ely for Norwich. Where he
>>>>> was met by a crowd of supporters (because he published the schedule in
>>>>> advance).
>>>>>
>>>>> And getting a train to stop at every request stop to get off and on
>>>>> again is going to piss off the crew pretty quickly!
>>>>>
>>>> Being a railway worker himself and doing it for charity would probably
>>>> have got them in on the game if they knew he was coming.
>>>
>>> They still wouldn't want to disrupt the timetable by stopping at more stops than usual.
>>
>> The timetable doesn’t allow for stopping at every request stop? Is there a
>> quota, do you think?
>
> It'll be probabilistic. The planners will have observed that the 12:34
> typically stops at two of the ten request halts, and timed it so that it
> arrives on time if that happens. If it stops everywhere, it'll be late.

So do they change it at different times of day, or on holiday weekends when
people might be taking walking trips or the like?

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>> On 02/04/2024 19:14, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 02 Apr 2024 03:21:35 +0100, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 18:16:33 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <%ogON.29863$lu2.9975@fx15.ams1>, at 16:43:39 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <uuc1n6$1s2j6$9@dont-email.me>, at 17:07:02 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>>>>>>> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgdxglke59o>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Makes a change from the Underground challenge
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But "all stations" was done a few years ago.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Although this chap claims to have got off-and-on at *every* station,
>>>>>>>> which is new. And quite a challenge for those stations with one train a
>>>>>>>> day (Shippey Hill) or one a week (Denton).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, I think Geoff counted stations where the train either did, or would
>>>>>>> stop if requested, but didn't necessarily step on the platform.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think he only used the platform at places where he was first boarding,
>>>>>> or finally getting off, a train. He did Shippea Hill by staying the
>>>>>> night in Ely then getting a lift there at crack of dawn to get on the
>>>>>> train which had a few minutes before departed Ely for Norwich. Where he
>>>>>> was met by a crowd of supporters (because he published the schedule in
>>>>>> advance).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And getting a train to stop at every request stop to get off and on
>>>>>> again is going to piss off the crew pretty quickly!
>>>>>>
>>>>> Being a railway worker himself and doing it for charity would probably
>>>>> have got them in on the game if they knew he was coming.
>>>>
>>>> They still wouldn't want to disrupt the timetable by stopping at more stops than usual.
>>>
>>> The timetable doesn’t allow for stopping at every request stop? Is there a
>>> quota, do you think?
>>
>> It'll be probabilistic. The planners will have observed that the 12:34
>> typically stops at two of the ten request halts, and timed it so that it
>> arrives on time if that happens. If it stops everywhere, it'll be late.
>
> So do they change it at different times of day, or on holiday weekends when
> people might be taking walking trips or the like?

Buses certainly do. At busy times, they're likely to have more stops, with
longer dwell times, and encounter heavier traffic. The timetables take this
into account.

On 03/04/2024 10:44, Recliner wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>>> On 02/04/2024 19:14, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>> The timetable doesn’t allow for stopping at every request stop? Is there a
>>>> quota, do you think?
>>>
>>> It'll be probabilistic. The planners will have observed that the 12:34
>>> typically stops at two of the ten request halts, and timed it so that it
>>> arrives on time if that happens. If it stops everywhere, it'll be late.
>>
>> So do they change it at different times of day, or on holiday weekends when
>> people might be taking walking trips or the like?
>
> Buses certainly do. At busy times, they're likely to have more stops, with
> longer dwell times, and encounter heavier traffic. The timetables take this
> into account.

My uninformed guess is that they allow more time for the train journey
at peak times when more request stops are likely to be demanded. This
may include weekends or even holidays if they have a special timetable.

Bus timings certainly vary around here. One timetable that happens to
be on my screen varies from 75 minutes at 5 am to 113 minutes for the
same journey in the evening peak. That's partly due to congestion but
also to having to serve all the stops rather than whizz past empty.