Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <6uun0jtkdlukpqpv53coml4ls1pf5ncea2@4ax.com>, at 13:37:47 on
> Tue, 2 Apr 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 06:37:13 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <pgFON.36294$lu2.18136@fx15.ams1>, at 21:01:09 on Mon, 1 Apr
>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <uovON.8359$jC2.443@fx06.ams1>, at 09:47:06 on Mon, 1 Apr
>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <l6v8scF8g0cU1@mid.individual.net>, at 08:17:16 on Mon, 1 Apr
>>>>>>> 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <THlON.20797$2G2.10163@fx07.ams1>, at 22:45:07 on
>>>>>>>>> Sun, 31 Mar
>>>>>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 29/03/2024 00:44, Yenc-PP-A&A wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Merseyrail 507001 to be preserved at Tanat Railway Centre
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://southport.qlocal.co.uk/southport/news_list/Merseyrail_507001_t
>>>>>>>>>>>> o_be_preserved_at_Tanat_Railway_Centre-55069075.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder how long it will survive?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Other EMUs have been "preserved", but that costs money, and
>>>>>>>>>>> with nowhere to let them work, money runs out, they get
>>>>>>>>>>> neglected, and sadly at least some of the coaches go for scrap.
>>>>>>>>>>> As is happening to the once "preserved" class 503. One coach
>>>>>>>>>>> being saved, the other two coaches as rusting hulks, last seen
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, it's hard to run preserved EMUs under their own power,
>>>>>>>>>> which severely limits their earning potential.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe someone should start a museum adjacent to the Old Dalby test
>>>>>>>>> track?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As static museum pieces, they cost money to preserve, with
>>>>>>>>>> little or no customer revenue to offset the costs. Unless they
>>>>>>>>>> have some sentimental value or national significance, who will pay the net cost?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In the future the same problem may arise with quirky battery
>>>>>>>>> conversions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I could see a quirky battery conversion being used on some of our more
>>>>>>>> scenic Heritage railways where many passengers are more interested in
>>>>>>>> the scenery than the vehicle they are riding in. Then engage some good
>>>>>>>> marketing that promotes the green side of the operation with no dirty
>>>>>>>> diesel emissions or reduced use of Steam locomotives .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thus just one quirky conversion being preserved, along with incurring
>>>>>>> the overheads of installing its quirky recharging infrastructure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The latter wouldn't be needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why?
>>>>
>>>> A preserved line wouldn't need the rapid charger kit.
>>>
>>> I suppose that if in service an overnight charge might last all day,
>>> depending on the length of each trip.
>>
>> They could do a 15 minute top-up after each trip (or return trip on a
>> short line).
>
> Manually plugging them that often seems like a huge faff.

The 230 BMU could probably do several return trips on one charge. So it
might only need one recharge at lunchtime on a typical heritage line.

In any case, it's far less faff than running a steam engine round and
watering it after every trip, with coal top-ups from time to time.

On 02/04/2024 17:27, Recliner wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <6uun0jtkdlukpqpv53coml4ls1pf5ncea2@4ax.com>, at 13:37:47 on
>> Tue, 2 Apr 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 06:37:13 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <pgFON.36294$lu2.18136@fx15.ams1>, at 21:01:09 on Mon, 1 Apr
>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <uovON.8359$jC2.443@fx06.ams1>, at 09:47:06 on Mon, 1 Apr
>>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <l6v8scF8g0cU1@mid.individual.net>, at 08:17:16 on Mon, 1 Apr
>>>>>>>> 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <THlON.20797$2G2.10163@fx07.ams1>, at 22:45:07 on
>>>>>>>>>> Sun, 31 Mar
>>>>>>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 29/03/2024 00:44, Yenc-PP-A&A wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Merseyrail 507001 to be preserved at Tanat Railway Centre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://southport.qlocal.co.uk/southport/news_list/Merseyrail_507001_t
>>>>>>>>>>>>> o_be_preserved_at_Tanat_Railway_Centre-55069075.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder how long it will survive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Other EMUs have been "preserved", but that costs money, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> with nowhere to let them work, money runs out, they get
>>>>>>>>>>>> neglected, and sadly at least some of the coaches go for scrap.
>>>>>>>>>>>> As is happening to the once "preserved" class 503. One coach
>>>>>>>>>>>> being saved, the other two coaches as rusting hulks, last seen
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, it's hard to run preserved EMUs under their own power,
>>>>>>>>>>> which severely limits their earning potential.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe someone should start a museum adjacent to the Old Dalby test
>>>>>>>>>> track?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As static museum pieces, they cost money to preserve, with
>>>>>>>>>>> little or no customer revenue to offset the costs. Unless they
>>>>>>>>>>> have some sentimental value or national significance, who will pay the net cost?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In the future the same problem may arise with quirky battery
>>>>>>>>>> conversions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I could see a quirky battery conversion being used on some of our more
>>>>>>>>> scenic Heritage railways where many passengers are more interested in
>>>>>>>>> the scenery than the vehicle they are riding in. Then engage some good
>>>>>>>>> marketing that promotes the green side of the operation with no dirty
>>>>>>>>> diesel emissions or reduced use of Steam locomotives .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thus just one quirky conversion being preserved, along with incurring
>>>>>>>> the overheads of installing its quirky recharging infrastructure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The latter wouldn't be needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>
>>>>> A preserved line wouldn't need the rapid charger kit.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose that if in service an overnight charge might last all day,
>>>> depending on the length of each trip.
>>>
>>> They could do a 15 minute top-up after each trip (or return trip on a
>>> short line).
>>
>> Manually plugging them that often seems like a huge faff.
>
> The 230 BMU could probably do several return trips on one charge. So it
> might only need one recharge at lunchtime on a typical heritage line.
>
> In any case, it's far less faff than running a steam engine round and
> watering it after every trip, with coal top-ups from time to time.

Except that watering a steam loco is an attraction for the punters,
plugging a cable in, less so.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 02.04.2024 04:14, Charles Ellson wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 22:16:47 +0100, Graeme Wall
> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 01/04/2024 22:01, Recliner wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <uovON.8359$jC2.443@fx06.ams1>, at 09:47:06 on Mon, 1 Apr
>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <l6v8scF8g0cU1@mid.individual.net>, at 08:17:16 on Mon, 1 Apr
>>>>>> 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <THlON.20797$2G2.10163@fx07.ams1>, at 22:45:07 on Sun, 31 Mar
>>>>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 29/03/2024 00:44, Yenc-PP-A&A wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Merseyrail 507001 to be preserved at Tanat Railway Centre
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://southport.qlocal.co.uk/southport/news_list/Merseyrail_507001_t
>>>>>>>>>>> o_be_preserved_at_Tanat_Railway_Centre-55069075.htm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I wonder how long it will survive?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Other EMUs have been "preserved", but that costs money, and with nowhere
>>>>>>>>>> to let them work, money runs out, they get neglected, and sadly at least
>>>>>>>>>> some of the coaches go for scrap. As is happening to the once
>>>>>>>>>> "preserved" class 503. One coach being saved, the other two coaches as
>>>>>>>>>> rusting hulks, last seen dumped in a yard near Stoke On Trent.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, it's hard to run preserved EMUs under their own power, which severely
>>>>>>>>> limits their earning potential.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe someone should start a museum adjacent to the Old Dalby test
>>>>>>>> track?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As static museum pieces, they cost money to preserve, with little or no
>>>>>>>>> customer revenue to offset the costs. Unless they have some sentimental
>>>>>>>>> value or national significance, who will pay the net cost?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the future the same problem may arise with quirky battery
>>>>>>>> conversions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I could see a quirky battery conversion being used on some of our more
>>>>>>> scenic Heritage railways where many passengers are more interested in
>>>>>>> the scenery than the vehicle they are riding in. Then engage some good
>>>>>>> marketing that promotes the green side of the operation with no dirty
>>>>>>> diesel emissions or reduced use of Steam locomotives .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thus just one quirky conversion being preserved, along with incurring
>>>>>> the overheads of installing its quirky recharging infrastructure.
>>>>>
>>>>> The latter wouldn't be needed.
>>>>
>>>> Why?
>>>
>>> A preserved line wouldn't need the rapid charger kit.
>>>
>>
>> They'd need some form of charger kit, presumably a car charger could be
>> modded to suit.
>>
> What voltage do they need? If they work at around 700-800 volts and
> there is a local 33kV supply available then there is maybe an ongoing
> assured supply from scrapped EMUs.

How long is a piece of string? As it stands nobody has designed a
battery solution to retrofit on a heritage EMU, and how long it can be
on charge between runs and how much battery capacity is installed are
all open questions. If you just want to run it up and down your line
once a month at slow speed, a basic 13 plug could probably provided the
needed power.

Robin

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <6uun0jtkdlukpqpv53coml4ls1pf5ncea2@4ax.com>, at 13:37:47 on
> Tue, 2 Apr 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 06:37:13 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <pgFON.36294$lu2.18136@fx15.ams1>, at 21:01:09 on Mon, 1 Apr
>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <uovON.8359$jC2.443@fx06.ams1>, at 09:47:06 on Mon, 1 Apr
>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <l6v8scF8g0cU1@mid.individual.net>, at 08:17:16 on Mon, 1 Apr
>>>>>>> 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <THlON.20797$2G2.10163@fx07.ams1>, at 22:45:07 on
>>>>>>>>> Sun, 31 Mar
>>>>>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 29/03/2024 00:44, Yenc-PP-A&A wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Merseyrail 507001 to be preserved at Tanat Railway Centre
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://southport.qlocal.co.uk/southport/news_list/Merseyrail_507001_t
>>>>>>>>>>>> o_be_preserved_at_Tanat_Railway_Centre-55069075.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder how long it will survive?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Other EMUs have been "preserved", but that costs money, and
>>>>>>>>>>> with nowhere to let them work, money runs out, they get
>>>>>>>>>>> neglected, and sadly at least some of the coaches go for scrap.
>>>>>>>>>>> As is happening to the once "preserved" class 503. One coach
>>>>>>>>>>> being saved, the other two coaches as rusting hulks, last seen
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, it's hard to run preserved EMUs under their own power,
>>>>>>>>>> which severely limits their earning potential.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe someone should start a museum adjacent to the Old Dalby test
>>>>>>>>> track?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As static museum pieces, they cost money to preserve, with
>>>>>>>>>> little or no customer revenue to offset the costs. Unless they
>>>>>>>>>> have some sentimental value or national significance, who will pay the net cost?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In the future the same problem may arise with quirky battery
>>>>>>>>> conversions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I could see a quirky battery conversion being used on some of our more
>>>>>>>> scenic Heritage railways where many passengers are more interested in
>>>>>>>> the scenery than the vehicle they are riding in. Then engage some good
>>>>>>>> marketing that promotes the green side of the operation with no dirty
>>>>>>>> diesel emissions or reduced use of Steam locomotives .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thus just one quirky conversion being preserved, along with incurring
>>>>>>> the overheads of installing its quirky recharging infrastructure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The latter wouldn't be needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why?
>>>>
>>>> A preserved line wouldn't need the rapid charger kit.
>>>
>>> I suppose that if in service an overnight charge might last all day,
>>> depending on the length of each trip.
>>
>> They could do a 15 minute top-up after each trip (or return trip on a
>> short line).
>
> Manually plugging them that often seems like a huge faff.
>

Is plugging in a single cable from a charger into a socket going to be
more of a faff than than uncoupling a locomotive which could involve a
screw link coupling , vacuum or air brake pipe, maybe a steam heat or
electric heating jumpers then running around to the other end of a train
and coupling them all up again and doing the brake test?

GH

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 02/04/2024 17:27, Recliner wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <6uun0jtkdlukpqpv53coml4ls1pf5ncea2@4ax.com>, at 13:37:47 on
>>> Tue, 2 Apr 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 06:37:13 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <pgFON.36294$lu2.18136@fx15.ams1>, at 21:01:09 on Mon, 1 Apr
>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <uovON.8359$jC2.443@fx06.ams1>, at 09:47:06 on Mon, 1 Apr
>>>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <l6v8scF8g0cU1@mid.individual.net>, at 08:17:16 on Mon, 1 Apr
>>>>>>>>> 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <THlON.20797$2G2.10163@fx07.ams1>, at 22:45:07 on
>>>>>>>>>>> Sun, 31 Mar
>>>>>>>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 29/03/2024 00:44, Yenc-PP-A&A wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Merseyrail 507001 to be preserved at Tanat Railway Centre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://southport.qlocal.co.uk/southport/news_list/Merseyrail_507001_t
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o_be_preserved_at_Tanat_Railway_Centre-55069075.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder how long it will survive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other EMUs have been "preserved", but that costs money, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with nowhere to let them work, money runs out, they get
>>>>>>>>>>>>> neglected, and sadly at least some of the coaches go for scrap.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As is happening to the once "preserved" class 503. One coach
>>>>>>>>>>>>> being saved, the other two coaches as rusting hulks, last seen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, it's hard to run preserved EMUs under their own power,
>>>>>>>>>>>> which severely limits their earning potential.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe someone should start a museum adjacent to the Old Dalby test
>>>>>>>>>>> track?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As static museum pieces, they cost money to preserve, with
>>>>>>>>>>>> little or no customer revenue to offset the costs. Unless they
>>>>>>>>>>>> have some sentimental value or national significance, who will pay the net
>>>>>>>>>>>> cost?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In the future the same problem may arise with quirky battery
>>>>>>>>>>> conversions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I could see a quirky battery conversion being used on some of our more
>>>>>>>>>> scenic Heritage railways where many passengers are more interested in
>>>>>>>>>> the scenery than the vehicle they are riding in. Then engage some good
>>>>>>>>>> marketing that promotes the green side of the operation with no dirty
>>>>>>>>>> diesel emissions or reduced use of Steam locomotives .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thus just one quirky conversion being preserved, along with incurring
>>>>>>>>> the overheads of installing its quirky recharging infrastructure.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The latter wouldn't be needed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A preserved line wouldn't need the rapid charger kit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose that if in service an overnight charge might last all day,
>>>>> depending on the length of each trip.
>>>>
>>>> They could do a 15 minute top-up after each trip (or return trip on a
>>>> short line).
>>>
>>> Manually plugging them that often seems like a huge faff.
>>
>> The 230 BMU could probably do several return trips on one charge. So it
>> might only need one recharge at lunchtime on a typical heritage line.
>>
>> In any case, it's far less faff than running a steam engine round and
>> watering it after every trip, with coal top-ups from time to time.
>
> Except that watering a steam loco is an attraction for the punters,
> plugging a cable in, less so.
>

Sure, nothing about a BMU will be as scenic as preserved steam. They're
silent, have no visible moving parts and (hopefully!) don't emit any smoke.
But they'd be far cheaper to run, and need very few volunteer hours to keep
them running. Steam locos are very labour intensive. So, on quiet days they
may be the only practical option to keep running.

In message <l736n2Fqng4U1@mid.individual.net>, at 20:04:50 on Tue, 2 Apr
2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <6uun0jtkdlukpqpv53coml4ls1pf5ncea2@4ax.com>, at 13:37:47 on
>> Tue, 2 Apr 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 06:37:13 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <pgFON.36294$lu2.18136@fx15.ams1>, at 21:01:09 on Mon, 1 Apr
>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <uovON.8359$jC2.443@fx06.ams1>, at 09:47:06 on Mon, 1 Apr
>>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <l6v8scF8g0cU1@mid.individual.net>, at 08:17:16 on
>>>>>>>>Mon, 1 Apr
>>>>>>>> 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <THlON.20797$2G2.10163@fx07.ams1>, at 22:45:07 on
>>>>>>>>>> Sun, 31 Mar
>>>>>>>>>> 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 29/03/2024 00:44, Yenc-PP-A&A wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Merseyrail 507001 to be preserved at Tanat Railway Centre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>https://southport.qlocal.co.uk/southport/news_list/Merseyrail_507001_t
>>>>>>>>>>>>> o_be_preserved_at_Tanat_Railway_Centre-55069075.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder how long it will survive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Other EMUs have been "preserved", but that costs money, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> with nowhere to let them work, money runs out, they get
>>>>>>>>>>>> neglected, and sadly at least some of the coaches go for scrap.
>>>>>>>>>>>> As is happening to the once "preserved" class 503. One coach
>>>>>>>>>>>> being saved, the other two coaches as rusting hulks, last seen
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, it's hard to run preserved EMUs under their own power,
>>>>>>>>>>> which severely limits their earning potential.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe someone should start a museum adjacent to the Old Dalby test
>>>>>>>>>> track?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As static museum pieces, they cost money to preserve, with
>>>>>>>>>>> little or no customer revenue to offset the costs. Unless they
>>>>>>>>>>> have some sentimental value or national significance, who
>>>>>>>>>>>will pay the net cost?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In the future the same problem may arise with quirky battery
>>>>>>>>>> conversions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I could see a quirky battery conversion being used on some of our more
>>>>>>>>> scenic Heritage railways where many passengers are more interested in
>>>>>>>>> the scenery than the vehicle they are riding in. Then engage some good
>>>>>>>>> marketing that promotes the green side of the operation with no dirty
>>>>>>>>> diesel emissions or reduced use of Steam locomotives .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thus just one quirky conversion being preserved, along with incurring
>>>>>>>> the overheads of installing its quirky recharging infrastructure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The latter wouldn't be needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>
>>>>> A preserved line wouldn't need the rapid charger kit.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose that if in service an overnight charge might last all day,
>>>> depending on the length of each trip.
>>>
>>> They could do a 15 minute top-up after each trip (or return trip on a
>>> short line).
>>
>> Manually plugging them that often seems like a huge faff.
>
>Is plugging in a single cable from a charger into a socket going to be
>more of a faff than than uncoupling a locomotive which could involve a
>screw link coupling , vacuum or air brake pipe, maybe a steam heat or
>electric heating jumpers then running around to the other end of a train
>and coupling them all up again and doing the brake test?

Yes, especially when the steam engine's shuffle is part of the spectacle
people are paying for.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I could see a quirky battery conversion being used on some of our more
>>>>>>>>>> scenic Heritage railways where many passengers are more interested in
>>>>>>>>>> the scenery than the vehicle they are riding in. Then engage some good
>>>>>>>>>> marketing that promotes the green side of the operation with no dirty
>>>>>>>>>> diesel emissions or reduced use of Steam locomotives .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thus just one quirky conversion being preserved, along with incurring
>>>>>>>>> the overheads of installing its quirky recharging infrastructure.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The latter wouldn't be needed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A preserved line wouldn't need the rapid charger kit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose that if in service an overnight charge might last all day,
>>>>> depending on the length of each trip.
>>>>
>>>> They could do a 15 minute top-up after each trip (or return trip on a
>>>> short line).
>>>
>>> Manually plugging them that often seems like a huge faff.
>>
>> Is plugging in a single cable from a charger into a socket going to be
>> more of a faff than than uncoupling a locomotive which could involve a
>> screw link coupling , vacuum or air brake pipe, maybe a steam heat or
>> electric heating jumpers then running around to the other end of a train
>> and coupling them all up again and doing the brake test?
>
> Yes, especially when the steam engine's shuffle is part of the spectacle
> people are paying for.

I’ll repeat what I wrote above.

I could see a quirky battery conversion being used on some of our more
>>>>>>>>>> scenic Heritage railways where many passengers are more interested in
>>>>>>>>>> the scenery than the vehicle they are riding in.

So such people will not be interested in seeing that, if they were they
could choose to ride on a more conventional train, that is if one is
scheduled.
I could see an easily operated battery train being useful to a scenic
heritage line on those beginning and end of season days when a steam loco
is becoming harder to run as reduced passenger numbers don’t cover the
cost of coal coupled with the pool of volunteers gradually shrinking due to
various factors. A battery unit would need less people to prepare ,clean
,run and dispose of at end of the day.
The alternative could be no train at all.

And that people are watching all the connections needing to be
disconnected from a locomotive
doesn’t stop it being a lot more faff compared with just putting a plug in
a socket, its just interesting to some spectators.

GH

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I could see a quirky battery conversion being used on some of our more
>>>>>>>>>>> scenic Heritage railways where many passengers are more interested in
>>>>>>>>>>> the scenery than the vehicle they are riding in. Then engage some good
>>>>>>>>>>> marketing that promotes the green side of the operation with no dirty
>>>>>>>>>>> diesel emissions or reduced use of Steam locomotives .
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thus just one quirky conversion being preserved, along with incurring
>>>>>>>>>> the overheads of installing its quirky recharging infrastructure.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The latter wouldn't be needed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A preserved line wouldn't need the rapid charger kit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suppose that if in service an overnight charge might last all day,
>>>>>> depending on the length of each trip.
>>>>>
>>>>> They could do a 15 minute top-up after each trip (or return trip on a
>>>>> short line).
>>>>
>>>> Manually plugging them that often seems like a huge faff.
>>>
>>> Is plugging in a single cable from a charger into a socket going to be
>>> more of a faff than than uncoupling a locomotive which could involve a
>>> screw link coupling , vacuum or air brake pipe, maybe a steam heat or
>>> electric heating jumpers then running around to the other end of a train
>>> and coupling them all up again and doing the brake test?
>>
>> Yes, especially when the steam engine's shuffle is part of the spectacle
>> people are paying for.
>
> I’ll repeat what I wrote above.
>
> I could see a quirky battery conversion being used on some of our more
>>>>>>>>>>> scenic Heritage railways where many passengers are more interested in
>>>>>>>>>>> the scenery than the vehicle they are riding in.
>
> So such people will not be interested in seeing that, if they were they
> could choose to ride on a more conventional train, that is if one is
> scheduled.
> I could see an easily operated battery train being useful to a scenic
> heritage line on those beginning and end of season days when a steam loco
> is becoming harder to run as reduced passenger numbers don’t cover the
> cost of coal coupled with the pool of volunteers gradually shrinking due to
> various factors. A battery unit would need less people to prepare ,clean
> ,run and dispose of at end of the day.
> The alternative could be no train at all.
>
> And that people are watching all the connections needing to be
> disconnected from a locomotive
> doesn’t stop it being a lot more faff compared with just putting a plug in
> a socket, its just interesting to some spectators.
>

I wonder to what extent EMUs can be modified to have windows in the cab
walls, so passengers can have a forward view, as in first gen DMUs? Could
the solid cab door be replaced with a glass (or plexiglass) door? That
would make them more attractive to visitors, especially children.

Perhaps a forward-facing camera feed to 4K screens in each carriage would
also improve the attraction on scenic lines. Or it could be streamed to
passengers' phones via onboard WiFi. Yes, I know this isn't anything like a
1950s steam branch line experience, but it might appeal to younger
visitors.

On 03/04/2024 09:36, Recliner wrote:
> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I could see a quirky battery conversion being used on some of our more
>>>>>>>>>>>> scenic Heritage railways where many passengers are more interested in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the scenery than the vehicle they are riding in. Then engage some good
>>>>>>>>>>>> marketing that promotes the green side of the operation with no dirty
>>>>>>>>>>>> diesel emissions or reduced use of Steam locomotives .
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thus just one quirky conversion being preserved, along with incurring
>>>>>>>>>>> the overheads of installing its quirky recharging infrastructure.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The latter wouldn't be needed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A preserved line wouldn't need the rapid charger kit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suppose that if in service an overnight charge might last all day,
>>>>>>> depending on the length of each trip.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They could do a 15 minute top-up after each trip (or return trip on a
>>>>>> short line).
>>>>>
>>>>> Manually plugging them that often seems like a huge faff.
>>>>
>>>> Is plugging in a single cable from a charger into a socket going to be
>>>> more of a faff than than uncoupling a locomotive which could involve a
>>>> screw link coupling , vacuum or air brake pipe, maybe a steam heat or
>>>> electric heating jumpers then running around to the other end of a train
>>>> and coupling them all up again and doing the brake test?
>>>
>>> Yes, especially when the steam engine's shuffle is part of the spectacle
>>> people are paying for.
>>
>> I’ll repeat what I wrote above.
>>
>> I could see a quirky battery conversion being used on some of our more
>>>>>>>>>>>> scenic Heritage railways where many passengers are more interested in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the scenery than the vehicle they are riding in.
>>
>> So such people will not be interested in seeing that, if they were they
>> could choose to ride on a more conventional train, that is if one is
>> scheduled.
>> I could see an easily operated battery train being useful to a scenic
>> heritage line on those beginning and end of season days when a steam loco
>> is becoming harder to run as reduced passenger numbers don’t cover the
>> cost of coal coupled with the pool of volunteers gradually shrinking due to
>> various factors. A battery unit would need less people to prepare ,clean
>> ,run and dispose of at end of the day.
>> The alternative could be no train at all.
>>
>> And that people are watching all the connections needing to be
>> disconnected from a locomotive
>> doesn’t stop it being a lot more faff compared with just putting a plug in
>> a socket, its just interesting to some spectators.
>>
>
> I wonder to what extent EMUs can be modified to have windows in the cab
> walls, so passengers can have a forward view, as in first gen DMUs? Could
> the solid cab door be replaced with a glass (or plexiglass) door? That
> would make them more attractive to visitors, especially children.

Don't a lot of them have kit against the rear bulkhead?

>
> Perhaps a forward-facing camera feed to 4K screens in each carriage would
> also improve the attraction on scenic lines. Or it could be streamed to
> passengers' phones via onboard WiFi. Yes, I know this isn't anything like a
> 1950s steam branch line experience, but it might appeal to younger
> visitors.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 03/04/2024 09:36, Recliner wrote:
>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I could see a quirky battery conversion being used on some of our more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> scenic Heritage railways where many passengers are more interested in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the scenery than the vehicle they are riding in. Then engage some good
>>>>>>>>>>>>> marketing that promotes the green side of the operation with no dirty
>>>>>>>>>>>>> diesel emissions or reduced use of Steam locomotives .
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thus just one quirky conversion being preserved, along with incurring
>>>>>>>>>>>> the overheads of installing its quirky recharging infrastructure.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The latter wouldn't be needed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A preserved line wouldn't need the rapid charger kit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I suppose that if in service an overnight charge might last all day,
>>>>>>>> depending on the length of each trip.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They could do a 15 minute top-up after each trip (or return trip on a
>>>>>>> short line).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Manually plugging them that often seems like a huge faff.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is plugging in a single cable from a charger into a socket going to be
>>>>> more of a faff than than uncoupling a locomotive which could involve a
>>>>> screw link coupling , vacuum or air brake pipe, maybe a steam heat or
>>>>> electric heating jumpers then running around to the other end of a train
>>>>> and coupling them all up again and doing the brake test?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, especially when the steam engine's shuffle is part of the spectacle
>>>> people are paying for.
>>>
>>> I’ll repeat what I wrote above.
>>>
>>> I could see a quirky battery conversion being used on some of our more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> scenic Heritage railways where many passengers are more interested in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the scenery than the vehicle they are riding in.
>>>
>>> So such people will not be interested in seeing that, if they were they
>>> could choose to ride on a more conventional train, that is if one is
>>> scheduled.
>>> I could see an easily operated battery train being useful to a scenic
>>> heritage line on those beginning and end of season days when a steam loco
>>> is becoming harder to run as reduced passenger numbers don’t cover the
>>> cost of coal coupled with the pool of volunteers gradually shrinking due to
>>> various factors. A battery unit would need less people to prepare ,clean
>>> ,run and dispose of at end of the day.
>>> The alternative could be no train at all.
>>>
>>> And that people are watching all the connections needing to be
>>> disconnected from a locomotive
>>> doesn’t stop it being a lot more faff compared with just putting a plug in
>>> a socket, its just interesting to some spectators.
>>>
>>
>> I wonder to what extent EMUs can be modified to have windows in the cab
>> walls, so passengers can have a forward view, as in first gen DMUs? Could
>> the solid cab door be replaced with a glass (or plexiglass) door? That
>> would make them more attractive to visitors, especially children.
>
> Don't a lot of them have kit against the rear bulkhead?

Some of that kit may be redundant when running on a preserved line, or
could be moved. And there can't be any kit on the door.