Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On 9 Mar 2024 16:28:26 GMT
>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On 9 Mar 2024 11:57:39 GMT
>>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> As for you bridge rectifier that is a device for converting AC
>>>>> to DC, fat lot of good in a circuit from a battery bank.
>>>>
>>>> It'll also maintain DC polarity regardless if which way the input is wired.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe but another electrical component to fail and waste energy as it heats
>>> up,
>>> The simplicity of conductor rails and their robustness is something that
>>> you often promote and sticking an extra one down a few metres long is
>>> going to be a pretty much fit and forget exercise.
>>>
>>
>> If it uses standard 3rd or 4th rail to charge polarity wouldn't be an issue
>> anyway. Doesn't seem it is with this setup either but I suspect a proprietary
>> conductor/charging rail system will prove to be a false economy long term.
>
> Yep, the topology is pretty much the same as 4th rail but with the outer
> rail duplicated and placed between the running rails rather than outside.
> That means the train only needs one “outer rail” shoe rather than two.

Note that it has third, fourth and fifth rails, not just three in all.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On 9 Mar 2024 16:28:26 GMT
>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 9 Mar 2024 11:57:39 GMT
>>>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> As for you bridge rectifier that is a device for converting AC
>>>>>> to DC, fat lot of good in a circuit from a battery bank.
>>>>>
>>>>> It'll also maintain DC polarity regardless if which way the input is wired.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe but another electrical component to fail and waste energy as it heats
>>>> up,
>>>> The simplicity of conductor rails and their robustness is something that
>>>> you often promote and sticking an extra one down a few metres long is
>>>> going to be a pretty much fit and forget exercise.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If it uses standard 3rd or 4th rail to charge polarity wouldn't be an issue
>>> anyway. Doesn't seem it is with this setup either but I suspect a proprietary
>>> conductor/charging rail system will prove to be a false economy long term.
>>
>> Yep, the topology is pretty much the same as 4th rail but with the outer
>> rail duplicated and placed between the running rails rather than outside.
>> That means the train only needs one “outer rail” shoe rather than two.
>
> Note that it has third, fourth and fifth rails, not just three in all.

Yebbut it’s functionally like 4th rail but with the 3rd rail duplicated and
moved.

Sam
--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On 9 Mar 2024 16:28:26 GMT
>>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 9 Mar 2024 11:57:39 GMT
>>>>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> As for you bridge rectifier that is a device for converting AC
>>>>>>> to DC, fat lot of good in a circuit from a battery bank.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It'll also maintain DC polarity regardless if which way the input is wired.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe but another electrical component to fail and waste energy as it heats
>>>>> up,
>>>>> The simplicity of conductor rails and their robustness is something that
>>>>> you often promote and sticking an extra one down a few metres long is
>>>>> going to be a pretty much fit and forget exercise.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If it uses standard 3rd or 4th rail to charge polarity wouldn't be an issue
>>>> anyway. Doesn't seem it is with this setup either but I suspect a proprietary
>>>> conductor/charging rail system will prove to be a false economy long term.
>>>
>>> Yep, the topology is pretty much the same as 4th rail but with the outer
>>> rail duplicated and placed between the running rails rather than outside.
>>> That means the train only needs one “outer rail” shoe rather than two.
>>
>> Note that it has third, fourth and fifth rails, not just three in all.
>
> Yebbut it’s functionally like 4th rail but with the 3rd rail duplicated and
> moved.

I think the centre rail is the moved (high voltage) third rail, with the
other two performing the earthing function normally performed by the
running rails.

Next week I'll post some pictures of the Nice trams, where I was a week
ago, which do this more simply and unobtrusively.

I'm currently in Genoa, which has a cable-hauled funicular, which also has
two overhead wires, each connected by a mini pantograph.

On 22.03.2024 05:02, Recliner wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 9 Mar 2024 16:28:26 GMT
>>>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9 Mar 2024 11:57:39 GMT
>>>>>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> As for you bridge rectifier that is a device for converting AC
>>>>>>>> to DC, fat lot of good in a circuit from a battery bank.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It'll also maintain DC polarity regardless if which way the input is wired.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe but another electrical component to fail and waste energy as it heats
>>>>>> up,
>>>>>> The simplicity of conductor rails and their robustness is something that
>>>>>> you often promote and sticking an extra one down a few metres long is
>>>>>> going to be a pretty much fit and forget exercise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If it uses standard 3rd or 4th rail to charge polarity wouldn't be an issue
>>>>> anyway. Doesn't seem it is with this setup either but I suspect a proprietary
>>>>> conductor/charging rail system will prove to be a false economy long term.
>>>>
>>>> Yep, the topology is pretty much the same as 4th rail but with the outer
>>>> rail duplicated and placed between the running rails rather than outside.
>>>> That means the train only needs one “outer rail” shoe rather than two.
>>>
>>> Note that it has third, fourth and fifth rails, not just three in all.
>>
>> Yebbut it’s functionally like 4th rail but with the 3rd rail duplicated and
>> moved.
>
> I think the centre rail is the moved (high voltage) third rail, with the
> other two performing the earthing function normally performed by the
> running rails.

Keeping all the electrical connections in a self contained package not
interactign with the running rails allows the system to be isolated from
interactions with things like track circuits or other electrification
systems that might present at locations where it could be installed
(with the obvious exception of the LU 4 rail system). This would reduce
the cost and complexity of installing it on a pre-existing branch line.

Robin

Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
> On 22.03.2024 05:02, Recliner wrote:
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 9 Mar 2024 16:28:26 GMT
>>>>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 9 Mar 2024 11:57:39 GMT
>>>>>>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> As for you bridge rectifier that is a device for converting AC
>>>>>>>>> to DC, fat lot of good in a circuit from a battery bank.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It'll also maintain DC polarity regardless if which way the input is wired.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe but another electrical component to fail and waste energy as it heats
>>>>>>> up,
>>>>>>> The simplicity of conductor rails and their robustness is something that
>>>>>>> you often promote and sticking an extra one down a few metres long is
>>>>>>> going to be a pretty much fit and forget exercise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it uses standard 3rd or 4th rail to charge polarity wouldn't be an issue
>>>>>> anyway. Doesn't seem it is with this setup either but I suspect a proprietary
>>>>>> conductor/charging rail system will prove to be a false economy long term.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep, the topology is pretty much the same as 4th rail but with the outer
>>>>> rail duplicated and placed between the running rails rather than outside.
>>>>> That means the train only needs one “outer rail” shoe rather than two.
>>>>
>>>> Note that it has third, fourth and fifth rails, not just three in all.
>>>
>>> Yebbut it’s functionally like 4th rail but with the 3rd rail duplicated and
>>> moved.
>>
>> I think the centre rail is the moved (high voltage) third rail, with the
>> other two performing the earthing function normally performed by the
>> running rails.
>
> Keeping all the electrical connections in a self contained package not
> interactign with the running rails allows the system to be isolated from
> interactions with things like track circuits or other electrification
> systems that might present at locations where it could be installed
> (with the obvious exception of the LU 4 rail system). This would reduce
> the cost and complexity of installing it on a pre-existing branch line.

Yes, agreed, this method makes it much easier to install with no worries
about interfering with the signalling or damaging the running rails.