http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Journey-Shrinker.jpg

I wonder how these times compare to today's "new shinier" trains?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Journey-Shrinker.jpg
>
> I wonder how these times compare to today's "new shinier" trains?

A work colleague was involved in the abortive attempt to install draught
beer and lager in the early HST buffets.For practical reasons oversized
glasses were going to be used with metered dispense but they never worked
reliably , the power supply being unstable causing failures being the main
reason. One legacy that remained within the brewing industry for a few
years were the counter displays that displayed the product name ,marketing
people love big and bold but small displays were needed for the small area
of the Buffet counter. Word soon got around Publicans whose counter top
space was rapidly disappearing as a variety of products were added
alongside the traditional two or three hand pulls that smaller displays
had been produced and some pushed for them much against the wishes of the
marketing men, these smaller displays were known internally as “Railway
Fittings” a term which puzzled many people who did not know how they had
originated.

GH

On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 01:31:05 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

>http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Journey-Shrinker.jpg
>
>I wonder how these times compare to today's "new shinier" trains?

According to TrainTimes.org.uk, based solely on a sample of one day
(tomorrow), the fastest times are:

London - Newcastle 2h 52m
London - Edinburgh 4h 22m
York - London 1h 51m
Edinburgh - Newcastle 1h 24m
Leeds - London 2h 13m
Doncaster - London 1h 39m
York - Edinburgh 2h 39m
Edinburgh - London 4h 22m
Darlington - London 2h 21m

All of those are faster than the times on tbe beermat, although only by a
few minutes in most cases (the exception being London/Edinburgh in both
directions, which is a good half hour quicker these days).

So, our trains do seem to be getting faster, at least on the ECML. Whether
they're as pleasant a journey, of course, is another matter.

Mark

On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 01:31:05 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Journey-Shrinker.jpg
>
>I wonder how these times compare to today's "new shinier" trains?

Suspicious page blocked. Are you a suspicious person :-)

On 04/02/2024 20:24, Mark Goodge wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 01:31:05 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
>> http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Journey-Shrinker.jpg
>>
>> I wonder how these times compare to today's "new shinier" trains?
>
> According to TrainTimes.org.uk, based solely on a sample of one day
> (tomorrow), the fastest times are:
>
> London - Edinburgh 4h 22m

Did we not have the occasional 4h London to Edinburgh with the class 91?

By occasional I mean one or two per day, not special only?

James

James Heaton <heatonandmoore@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 04/02/2024 20:24, Mark Goodge wrote:
>> On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 01:31:05 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Journey-Shrinker.jpg
>>>
>>> I wonder how these times compare to today's "new shinier" trains?
>>
>> According to TrainTimes.org.uk, based solely on a sample of one day
>> (tomorrow), the fastest times are:
>>
>> London - Edinburgh 4h 22m
>
> Did we not have the occasional 4h London to Edinburgh with the class 91?
>
> By occasional I mean one or two per day, not special only?
>

One per day, Up only. It lets them retain the bragging rights.

On 04/02/2024 20:24, Mark Goodge wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 01:31:05 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
>>http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Journey-Shrinker.jpg
>>
>>I wonder how these times compare to today's "new shinier" trains?
>
> According to TrainTimes.org.uk, based solely on a sample of one day
> (tomorrow), the fastest times are:
>
> London - Newcastle 2h 52m
> London - Edinburgh 4h 22m
> York - London 1h 51m
> Edinburgh - Newcastle 1h 24m
> Leeds - London 2h 13m
> Doncaster - London 1h 39m
> York - Edinburgh 2h 39m
> Edinburgh - London 4h 22m
> Darlington - London 2h 21m
>
> All of those are faster than the times on tbe beermat, although only by a
> few minutes in most cases (the exception being London/Edinburgh in both
> directions, which is a good half hour quicker these days).
>
> So, our trains do seem to be getting faster, at least on the ECML. Whether
> they're as pleasant a journey, of course, is another matter.

Similar times were achieved by 125s and 225s in the nineties and naughties,
with a typical (for the time) set of stops (eg Peterborough, Doncaster,
York, Darlington, Newcastle). I think some of the times on the beer mat must
have been with significantly more stops. Given the better acceleration of
the Azumas, I assume they also have more stops.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> James Heaton <heatonandmoore@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 04/02/2024 20:24, Mark Goodge wrote:
>>> On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 01:31:05 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Journey-Shrinker.jpg
>>>>
>>>> I wonder how these times compare to today's "new shinier" trains?
>>>
>>> According to TrainTimes.org.uk, based solely on a sample of one day
>>> (tomorrow), the fastest times are:
>>>
>>> London - Edinburgh 4h 22m
>>
>> Did we not have the occasional 4h London to Edinburgh with the class 91?
>>
>> By occasional I mean one or two per day, not special only?
>>
>
> One per day, Up only. It lets them retain the bragging rights.

Scheduled at 3h59, I think, and often made it a few minutes faster. Early
morning? I think I went on it once.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> James Heaton <heatonandmoore@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 04/02/2024 20:24, Mark Goodge wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 01:31:05 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Journey-Shrinker.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder how these times compare to today's "new shinier" trains?
>>>>
>>>> According to TrainTimes.org.uk, based solely on a sample of one day
>>>> (tomorrow), the fastest times are:
>>>>
>>>> London - Edinburgh 4h 22m
>>>
>>> Did we not have the occasional 4h London to Edinburgh with the class 91?
>>>
>>> By occasional I mean one or two per day, not special only?
>>>
>>
>> One per day, Up only. It lets them retain the bragging rights.
>
> Scheduled at 3h59, I think, and often made it a few minutes faster. Early
> morning? I think I went on it once.

Officially scheduled for 4:00 hours, but 3:58 in the working timetable, so
it should normally be just under four hours. It arrives in London early
enough to (just) make a 10am meeting:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C82147/2024-02-07

It's followed by a possibly more popular service with lots of stops:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C82148/2024-02-07

On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 17:28:07 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> James Heaton <heatonandmoore@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Did we not have the occasional 4h London to Edinburgh with the class
>>> 91?
>>>
>>> By occasional I mean one or two per day, not special only?
>>>
>>>
>> One per day, Up only. It lets them retain the bragging rights.
>
> Scheduled at 3h59, I think, and often made it a few minutes faster.
> Early morning? I think I went on it once.

Still operates - the Flying Scotsman at 05:40 from Edinburgh, exactly four
hours to London, calling only at Newcastle. There's no Flying Scotsman
northbound, looks like the fastest is the 18:00, which calls at York,
Darlington, Newcastle and Berwick, and takes 4h20. This doesn't seem to be
named, despite being slightly faster than some which are. The Carolean
Express takes 4h21 and the Highland Chieftain 4h22, despite calling at the
same stations.

Mike

On 06/02/2024 19:03, Mike Humphrey wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 17:28:07 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> James Heaton <heatonandmoore@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Did we not have the occasional 4h London to Edinburgh with the class
>>>> 91?
>>>>
>>>> By occasional I mean one or two per day, not special only?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> One per day, Up only. It lets them retain the bragging rights.
>>
>> Scheduled at 3h59, I think, and often made it a few minutes faster.
>> Early morning? I think I went on it once.
>
> Still operates - the Flying Scotsman at 05:40 from Edinburgh, exactly four
> hours to London, calling only at Newcastle. There's no Flying Scotsman
> northbound, looks like the fastest is the 18:00, which calls at York,
> Darlington, Newcastle and Berwick, and takes 4h20. This doesn't seem to be
> named, despite being slightly faster than some which are. The Carolean
> Express takes 4h21 and the Highland Chieftain 4h22, despite calling at the
> same stations.

Thanks to all who replied

James

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> James Heaton <heatonandmoore@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 04/02/2024 20:24, Mark Goodge wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 01:31:05 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Journey-Shrinker.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder how these times compare to today's "new shinier" trains?
>>>>>
>>>>> According to TrainTimes.org.uk, based solely on a sample of one day
>>>>> (tomorrow), the fastest times are:
>>>>>
>>>>> London - Edinburgh 4h 22m
>>>>
>>>> Did we not have the occasional 4h London to Edinburgh with the class 91?
>>>>
>>>> By occasional I mean one or two per day, not special only?
>>>>
>>>
>>> One per day, Up only. It lets them retain the bragging rights.
>>
>> Scheduled at 3h59, I think, and often made it a few minutes faster. Early
>> morning? I think I went on it once.
>
> Officially scheduled for 4:00 hours, but 3:58 in the working timetable, so
> it should normally be just under four hours. It arrives in London early
> enough to (just) make a 10am meeting:
> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C82147/2024-02-07
>
> It's followed by a possibly more popular service with lots of stops:
> https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C82148/2024-02-07

Ah, sorry, I was thinking of the historical class 91/225 schedule. IIRC
it’s pretty much the same as previously.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 06/02/2024 19:03, Mike Humphrey wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 17:28:07 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> James Heaton <heatonandmoore@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Did we not have the occasional 4h London to Edinburgh with the class
>>>> 91?
>>>>
>>>> By occasional I mean one or two per day, not special only?
>>>
>>> One per day, Up only. It lets them retain the bragging rights.
>>
>> Scheduled at 3h59, I think, and often made it a few minutes faster.
>> Early morning? I think I went on it once.
>
> Still operates - the Flying Scotsman at 05:40 from Edinburgh, exactly four
> hours to London, calling only at Newcastle. There's no Flying Scotsman
> northbound, looks like the fastest is the 18:00, which calls at York,
> Darlington, Newcastle and Berwick, and takes 4h20. This doesn't seem to be
> named, despite being slightly faster than some which are. The Carolean
> Express takes 4h21 and the Highland Chieftain 4h22, despite calling at the
> same stations.

It used to leave Edinburgh at 0600, stopping at both Newcastle and York,
arriving in London at 0959. I caught it from Newcastle once, at just after
0720. Unfortunately we were diverted through a platform line at Peterborough
and arrived a few minutes late. I think there was a return working at 1500,
but I don't remember if it had exactly the same timings. I might have an old
timetable somewhere, which I might look for if I remember. One reason for
stopping at those two stations in particular, apart from their importance,
is that they have pretty much the lowest speed restrictions anywhere on the
ECML.

Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 01:31:05 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
> >http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Journey-Shrinker.jpg
> >
> >I wonder how these times compare to today's "new shinier" trains?
>
> According to TrainTimes.org.uk, based solely on a sample of one day
> (tomorrow), the fastest times are:
>
> London - Newcastle 2h 52m
> London - Edinburgh 4h 22m
> York - London 1h 51m
> Edinburgh - Newcastle 1h 24m
> Leeds - London 2h 13m
> Doncaster - London 1h 39m
> York - Edinburgh 2h 39m
> Edinburgh - London 4h 22m
> Darlington - London 2h 21m
>
> All of those are faster than the times on tbe beermat, although only by a
> few minutes in most cases (the exception being London/Edinburgh in both
> directions, which is a good half hour quicker these days).

It would be interesting to look those up on RealTimeTrains and see what time
they actually arrived at their destination. Perhaps invented more recently
than the beermat, recovery time has meant the train arriving early to its
final destination in order to reduce statistics for counting as delayed when
things go wrong. I wonder if that skews the figures, or whether there's one
train timetabled with minimal recovery time in order to substantiate the 'X
minutes between Y and Z' marketing claim.

Theo

In message <iioa9k-34b.ln1@castle.rilynn.me.uk>, at 22:31:14 on Tue, 6
Feb 2024, Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> remarked:
>>>>> Did we not have the occasional 4h London to Edinburgh with the class
>>>>> 91?
>>>>>
>>>>> By occasional I mean one or two per day, not special only?
>>>>
>>>> One per day, Up only. It lets them retain the bragging rights.
>>>
>>> Scheduled at 3h59, I think, and often made it a few minutes faster.
>>> Early morning? I think I went on it once.
>>
>> Still operates - the Flying Scotsman at 05:40 from Edinburgh, exactly four
>> hours to London, calling only at Newcastle. There's no Flying Scotsman
>> northbound, looks like the fastest is the 18:00, which calls at York,
>> Darlington, Newcastle and Berwick, and takes 4h20. This doesn't seem to be
>> named, despite being slightly faster than some which are. The Carolean
>> Express takes 4h21 and the Highland Chieftain 4h22, despite calling at the
>> same stations.
>
>It used to leave Edinburgh at 0600, stopping at both Newcastle and York,
>arriving in London at 0959. I caught it from Newcastle once, at just after
>0720. Unfortunately we were diverted through a platform line at Peterborough
>and arrived a few minutes late. I think there was a return working at 1500,
>but I don't remember if it had exactly the same timings. I might have an old
>timetable somewhere, which I might look for if I remember. One reason for
>stopping at those two stations in particular, apart from their importance,

Newcastle stop is for a crew change.

>is that they have pretty much the lowest speed restrictions anywhere on the
>ECML.

--
Roland Perry

In message <-Nn*2unCz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 10:00:59 on Wed,
7 Feb 2024, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:
>Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 01:31:05 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Journey-Shrinker.jpg
>> >
>> >I wonder how these times compare to today's "new shinier" trains?
>>
>> According to TrainTimes.org.uk, based solely on a sample of one day
>> (tomorrow), the fastest times are:
>>
>> London - Newcastle 2h 52m
>> London - Edinburgh 4h 22m
>> York - London 1h 51m
>> Edinburgh - Newcastle 1h 24m
>> Leeds - London 2h 13m
>> Doncaster - London 1h 39m
>> York - Edinburgh 2h 39m
>> Edinburgh - London 4h 22m
>> Darlington - London 2h 21m
>>
>> All of those are faster than the times on tbe beermat, although only by a
>> few minutes in most cases (the exception being London/Edinburgh in both
>> directions, which is a good half hour quicker these days).
>
>It would be interesting to look those up on RealTimeTrains and see what time
>they actually arrived at their destination. Perhaps invented more recently
>than the beermat, recovery time

iirc introduced shortly after privatisation

While I can't date the beermat precisely at the moment, it's most likely
from the late 70's <https://www.gwra.co.uk/auctions/poster-br-journey-
shrinker-is-here-inter-city-125-2021mar-0257.html>

I found it in a box where most of the other beermats I collected are
from 1975-1980

>has meant the train arriving early to its
>final destination in order to reduce statistics for counting as delayed when
>things go wrong. I wonder if that skews the figures, or whether there's one
>train timetabled with minimal recovery time in order to substantiate the 'X
>minutes between Y and Z' marketing claim.
>
>Theo

--
Roland Perry

Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
> On 06/02/2024 19:03, Mike Humphrey wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 17:28:07 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> James Heaton <heatonandmoore@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Did we not have the occasional 4h London to Edinburgh with the class
>>>>> 91?
>>>>>
>>>>> By occasional I mean one or two per day, not special only?
>>>>
>>>> One per day, Up only. It lets them retain the bragging rights.
>>>
>>> Scheduled at 3h59, I think, and often made it a few minutes faster.
>>> Early morning? I think I went on it once.
>>
>> Still operates - the Flying Scotsman at 05:40 from Edinburgh, exactly four
>> hours to London, calling only at Newcastle. There's no Flying Scotsman
>> northbound, looks like the fastest is the 18:00, which calls at York,
>> Darlington, Newcastle and Berwick, and takes 4h20. This doesn't seem to be
>> named, despite being slightly faster than some which are. The Carolean
>> Express takes 4h21 and the Highland Chieftain 4h22, despite calling at the
>> same stations.
>
> It used to leave Edinburgh at 0600, stopping at both Newcastle and York,
> arriving in London at 0959. I caught it from Newcastle once, at just after
> 0720. Unfortunately we were diverted through a platform line at Peterborough
> and arrived a few minutes late. I think there was a return working at 1500,
> but I don't remember if it had exactly the same timings. I might have an old
> timetable somewhere, which I might look for if I remember. One reason for
> stopping at those two stations in particular, apart from their importance,
> is that they have pretty much the lowest speed restrictions anywhere on the
> ECML.

That’ll be the one I remember catching. I hated the early rising, so I
switched to sleepers or, occasionally, a night in London before the
meeting. The £99 executive tickets were amazing value.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <-Nn*2unCz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 10:00:59 on Wed,
>
>>>
>>> All of those are faster than the times on tbe beermat, although only by a
>>> few minutes in most cases (the exception being London/Edinburgh in both
>>> directions, which is a good half hour quicker these days).
>>
>> It would be interesting to look those up on RealTimeTrains and see what time
>> they actually arrived at their destination. Perhaps invented more recently
>> than the beermat, recovery time
>
> iirc introduced shortly after privatisation
>
> While I can't date the beermat precisely at the moment, it's most likely
> from the late 70's <https://www.gwra.co.uk/auctions/poster-br-journey-
> shrinker-is-here-inter-city-125-2021mar-0257.html>
>
> I found it in a box where most of the other beermats I collected are
> from 1975-1980

Many from waterside hostelries by any chance?
We tended to take one from each watering hole visited and seeing how many
we managed to visit
in a week or fortnight was a bit of a shocker especially as this was in the
pre open all day era.
The collection went years ago which in away was a shame as many pf the
breweries have gone as .well. Bar towels were sometimes collected as well
but they were not one use items like mats so
to take without asking would have been theft. The main proginater of
collecting those eventually got his grandmother to sew the better ones
together patchwork quilt style on the outside of his sleeping bag which
made it easily identifiable .

GH

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 01:31:05 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Journey-Shrinker.jpg
>>>
>>> I wonder how these times compare to today's "new shinier" trains?
>>
>> According to TrainTimes.org.uk, based solely on a sample of one day
>> (tomorrow), the fastest times are:
>>
>> London - Newcastle 2h 52m
>> London - Edinburgh 4h 22m
>> York - London 1h 51m
>> Edinburgh - Newcastle 1h 24m
>> Leeds - London 2h 13m
>> Doncaster - London 1h 39m
>> York - Edinburgh 2h 39m
>> Edinburgh - London 4h 22m
>> Darlington - London 2h 21m
>>
>> All of those are faster than the times on tbe beermat, although only by a
>> few minutes in most cases (the exception being London/Edinburgh in both
>> directions, which is a good half hour quicker these days).
>
> It would be interesting to look those up on RealTimeTrains and see what time
> they actually arrived at their destination. Perhaps invented more recently
> than the beermat, recovery time has meant the train arriving early to its
> final destination in order to reduce statistics for counting as delayed when
> things go wrong. I wonder if that skews the figures, or whether there's one
> train timetabled with minimal recovery time in order to substantiate the 'X
> minutes between Y and Z' marketing claim.

Today's 05:40 left Waverley one minute early, but arrived two down at the
Cross, so it took 4:03.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C82147/2024-02-07

In message <l2h5u7F7dmvU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:56:07 on Wed, 7 Feb
2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <-Nn*2unCz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 10:00:59 on Wed,
>>
>>>>
>>>> All of those are faster than the times on tbe beermat, although only by a
>>>> few minutes in most cases (the exception being London/Edinburgh in both
>>>> directions, which is a good half hour quicker these days).
>>>
>>> It would be interesting to look those up on RealTimeTrains and see what time
>>> they actually arrived at their destination. Perhaps invented more recently
>>> than the beermat, recovery time
>>
>> iirc introduced shortly after privatisation
>>
>> While I can't date the beermat precisely at the moment, it's most likely
>> from the late 70's <https://www.gwra.co.uk/auctions/poster-br-journey-
>> shrinker-is-here-inter-city-125-2021mar-0257.html>
>>
>> I found it in a box where most of the other beermats I collected are
>> from 1975-1980
>
>Many from waterside hostelries by any chance?

Not especially. Maybe a third of them. The rest from other hostelries.
After all, even with ambitious waterways holiday plans I was probably
not on a boat more than four weeks a year, which leaves the other
forty-eight.

I'll do a luck dip... "Lees Draught Lager", from what's now a waterside
hostelry, but before that waterway was restored. I've visited it once
this century I think (on my way to pick up some things in Manchester)
but I can date it to 1977, and walking there from where I lived at the
time.

I had hoped to go past last summer on a boat, but water shortages and
other CRT infrastructure issues meant I had to leave the trip about a
week before it got there.

>We tended to take one from each watering hole visited and seeing how many
>we managed to visit
>in a week or fortnight was a bit of a shocker especially as this was in the
>pre open all day era.
>The collection went years ago which in away was a shame as many pf the
>breweries have gone as .well. Bar towels were sometimes collected as well
>but they were not one use items like mats so
>to take without asking would have been theft. The main proginater of
>collecting those eventually got his grandmother to sew the better ones
>together patchwork quilt style on the outside of his sleeping bag which
>made it easily identifiable .
>
>GH

--
Roland Perry