BBC running this clickbait story today.

No, it's not errors/omissions[2] in their fares database, but
availability of tickets "for the same journey". They carefully
skate around whether that's the "tickets for the same train" or
something slightly different.

The three highlighted issues turned out to be (in no particular order):

TVMs not selling AP tickets.
TVMs not offering (either automatically or if requested) passengers
split-ticketing.
TVMs not selling off-peak tickets before they would be valid
for [immediate] travel in the peak. Some think that's actually
a feature, not a bug; but perhaps the TVMs - criticised in the piece
for asking too *many* questions - might ask "do you want to travel on
the next train at 09:15, or prefer to wait for the 09:45"

The most extreme example was TVMs not suggesting alternative routings
(for example getting to Canterbury from St Pancras via a tube to
Victoria[1], rather than direct on HS1).

That might also require asking even more questions like "how important
is it to you that the journey minimises_changes/is_step-free"

Also that there are three different designs of TVM at St Pancras,
depending on which operator's machine you find. (Not including E*).

I wonder if what they need to do is replace the current TVMs with a
kiosk running an online app - but whose? Obviously The Trainline (who
clearly placed this story with the help of Which? magazine) would love
it to be theirs. But what's stopping them doing that anyway?

[1] Which is incidentally 40 minutes slower.

[2] On the Fen Line the TVMs didn't sell Super-Off-Peak tickets for a
long time after they were introduced. And of course in a bid to
"simplify" ticketing that's not really the most appropriate name,
because they are what would traditionally have been called a
"Weekender".

--
Roland Perry

On 18/01/2024 10:05, Roland Perry wrote:
> BBC running this clickbait story today.

They are quoting a report from Which just as The Telegraph, Sky News,
The Independent, Yahoo, Evening Standard, Knutsford Guardian, The Times
etc are doing.

In message <uob1j5$2ihr5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:21:09 on Thu, 18 Jan
2024, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:
>On 18/01/2024 10:05, Roland Perry wrote:

>> BBC running this clickbait story today.
>
>They are quoting a report from Which just as The Telegraph, Sky News,
>The Independent, Yahoo, Evening Standard, Knutsford Guardian, The Times
>etc are doing.

The BBC is doing independent (sic) live reporting. Which is what I saw
earlier.
--
Roland Perry

JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 18/01/2024 10:05, Roland Perry wrote:
>> BBC running this clickbait story today.
>
>
>
> They are quoting a report from Which just as The Telegraph, Sky News,
> The Independent, Yahoo, Evening Standard, Knutsford Guardian, The Times
> etc are doing.

Yes, this is the original report (I know Roland always prefers to read the
original source, rather than second-hand MSM reports):

<https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/train-station-machines-can-charge-twice-the-price-of-online-tickets-asfbN6V5xda8>

On 18/01/2024 11:21, JMB99 wrote:
> On 18/01/2024 10:05, Roland Perry wrote:
>> BBC running this clickbait story today.
>
>
>
> They are quoting a report from Which just as The Telegraph, Sky News,
> The Independent, Yahoo, Evening Standard, Knutsford Guardian, The Times
> etc are doing.
>
>

Knutsford Guardian? Must be true then!
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <X08qN.54906$c1y8.39474@fx15.ams1>, at 11:34:15 on Thu, 18
Jan 2024, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>> On 18/01/2024 10:05, Roland Perry wrote:

>>> BBC running this clickbait story today.
>>
>> They are quoting a report from Which just as The Telegraph, Sky News,
>> The Independent, Yahoo, Evening Standard, Knutsford Guardian, The Times
>> etc are doing.
>
>Yes, this is the original report (I know Roland always prefers to read the
>original source, rather than second-hand MSM reports):
>
><https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/train-station-machines-can-charge-
>twice-the-price-of-online-tickets-asfbN6V5xda8>

Thanks, that helps analyse what the other media are mangling in the
re-telling.

The BBC for example didn't mention:

Great Northern told us: ‘Our ticket machines are optimised to give
people fast service for the simple journeys that most people are
making. If that off-peak fare were to be placed on the home screen,
customers might easily select an invalid ticket if they were in a
rush.’

Which is an excuse I've heard for decades.

But this is a new one:

Splitting your journey is legal, but GWR told us: ‘Current
regulations
do not allow train operators to recommend split tickets from ticket
machines or ticket offices’.

'Do not allow' (aka prohibit), or is it 'fail to give them discretion'?

There's plenty of anecdotal evidence that some ticket offices do
recommend them. But that's probably just tickets split by leg, not also
by peak/off-peak (unless that happens by accident). As we know, some
ticket offices tell passengers that buying split tickets online is
against the rules.
--
Roland Perry

On 18/01/2024 10:05, Roland Perry wrote:
> BBC running this clickbait story today.
>
> No, it's not errors/omissions[2] in their fares database, but
> availability of tickets "for the same journey". They carefully
> skate around whether that's the "tickets for the same train" or
> something slightly different.
>
> The three highlighted issues turned out to be (in no particular order):
>
> TVMs not selling AP tickets.
> TVMs not offering (either automatically or if requested) passengers
>   split-ticketing.
> TVMs not selling off-peak tickets before they would be valid
>   for [immediate] travel in the peak. Some think that's actually
>   a feature, not a bug; but perhaps the TVMs - criticised in the piece
>   for asking too *many* questions - might ask "do you want to travel on
>   the next train at 09:15, or prefer to wait for the 09:45"
>
> The most extreme example was TVMs not suggesting alternative routings
> (for example getting to Canterbury from St Pancras via a tube to
> Victoria[1], rather than direct on HS1).
>
> That might also require asking even more questions like "how important
> is it to you that the journey minimises_changes/is_step-free"
>
> Also that there are three different designs of TVM at St Pancras,
> depending on which operator's machine you find. (Not including E*).
>
> I wonder if what they need to do is replace the current TVMs with a
> kiosk running an online app - but whose? Obviously The Trainline (who
> clearly placed this story with the help of Which? magazine) would love
> it to be theirs. But what's stopping them doing that anyway?
>
> [1] Which is incidentally 40 minutes slower.
>
> [2] On the Fen Line the TVMs didn't sell Super-Off-Peak tickets for a
>     long time after they were introduced. And of course in a bid to
>     "simplify" ticketing that's not really the most appropriate name,
>     because they are what would traditionally have been called a
>     "Weekender".
>

They are often selling two different products. Yes, you can (sometimes)
get much cheaper advance fares, but you are restricted to a single
pre-booked train (in each direction if it is a return trip).

But most TVMs tend to sell tickets usable at anytime on any train
(subject to any peak-hour restrictions).

On 18/01/2024 14:24, Graeme Wall wrote:
> Knutsford Guardian? Must be true then!

Possibly with the Knutsford Guardian, unlikely with the Cayman Island
Guardian.