I've had to hire car while travelling interstate.

The one provided has all the automation mod-cons, and I hate it.

Took me 15 minutes just to figure out how to turn the radio off.

Later there was the question of head-lights. Turns out they're automatic
too, but I had to read the manual to figure that out. They seem to stay
on for a while after on leaves the car too, making me concerned about
whether they're actually going to turn off.

And of course it has no proper hand brake - just a small lever that
operates a motor somewhere.

There isn't even a conventional gear-shift for the automatic
transmission - just another little lever that one has to look at just to
find and operate.

And there's no key. Just a fob that needs to be near the car for it to
be possible to start it.

Where was the need to make things so awkward?

Sylvia.

On 19/8/2023 9:29 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
> I've had to hire car while travelling interstate.
>
> The one provided has all the automation mod-cons, and I hate it.
>
> Took me 15 minutes just to figure out how to turn the radio off.
>
> Later there was the question of head-lights. Turns out they're automatic
> too, but I had to read the manual to figure that out. They seem to stay
> on for a while after on leaves the car too, making me concerned about
> whether they're actually going to turn off.
>
> And of course it has no proper hand brake - just a small lever that
> operates a motor somewhere.
>
> There isn't even a conventional gear-shift for the automatic
> transmission - just another little lever that one has to look at just to
> find and operate.
>
> And there's no key. Just a fob that needs to be near the car for it to
> be possible to start it.
>
> Where was the need to make things so awkward?
>
> Sylvia.

Blame people like Darren. He wanted a vehicle with, as he put it, a
"level of kit it offers"

On 23/7/2023 12:23 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> Agreed, but the styling is irrelevant. All dual cab utes
>> are ugly lumps. It's the level of kit it offers,

In other words, he wanted a *poseur truck*. Me, I prefer a car to do
what I regard at its primary role in getting me *reliably* from A to B
and back again with the minimum of fuss and bother and expense.
Everything else is secondary. That's why the *pov pack models fill my
needs more than adequately. My current Toy comes with a CD player. It
has a CD in it currently but it is rarely used. I use instead an MP3
thumb drive with *all* my preferred music on it. Much more convenient.
Having a bluetooth connection to my in-car entertainment system is a
requirement, then my phone can remain in my pocket. Would have been nice
to have had Apple car play so I could use my phone's GPS from the
on-dash screen - save that for my next car. Oh, and a reversing camera,
remote control rear view mirrors and windows. Beyond these, and they are
pretty much standard equipment these days, all the rest is just so much
bling.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 19/08/2023 9:29 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
> I've had to hire car while travelling interstate.
>
> The one provided has all the automation mod-cons, and I hate it.

I'm sure it hates you, too.

> Took me 15 minutes just to figure out how to turn the radio off.

15 minutes. Really?

It was mentioned here once that you hold a private pilot's licence.
Please tell me that isn't true....
> Later there was the question of head-lights. Turns out they're automatic
> too, but I had to read the manual to figure that out. They seem to stay
> on for a while after on leaves the car too, making me concerned about
> whether they're actually going to turn off.

Automatic headlights have been around for some time....

> And of course it has no proper hand brake - just a small lever that
> operates a motor somewhere.

So have electric park brakes.

> There isn't even a conventional gear-shift for the automatic
> transmission - just another little lever that one has to look at just to
> find and operate.

Lol :)

Just so we can get a real understanding of just how difficult this all
was, what make and model are you talking about here?

> And there's no key. Just a fob that needs to be near the car for it to
> be possible to start it.

None of this is new. Well, perhaps it is to you, but then it sounds like
you live in a cave and drive a car Fred Flinstone would be happy to own.

> Where was the need to make things so awkward?

There is nothing "awkward" about any of this other than the fact that
you plonked your backside in a vehicle that you're totally unfamiliar
with, and because you seemed incapable of working out the basics in a
relatively short time that became the *vehicle's* fault.

You are the most one dimensional character imaginable. Stick to driving
antiquated shit, as it sounds like the limit of your ability.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 19/08/2023 10:12 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 19/08/2023 9:29 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> I've had to hire car while travelling interstate.
>>
>> The one provided has all the automation mod-cons, and I hate it.
>
> I'm sure it hates you, too.
>
>> Took me 15 minutes just to figure out how to turn the radio off.
>
> 15 minutes. Really?
>
> It was mentioned here once that you hold a private pilot's licence.
> Please tell me that isn't true....
>> Later there was the question of head-lights. Turns out they're
>> automatic too, but I had to read the manual to figure that out. They
>> seem to stay on for a while after on leaves the car too, making me
>> concerned about whether they're actually going to turn off.
>
> Automatic headlights have been around for some time....
>
>> And of course it has no proper hand brake - just a small lever that
>> operates a motor somewhere.
>
> So have electric park brakes.
>
>> There isn't even a conventional gear-shift for the automatic
>> transmission - just another little lever that one has to look at just
>> to find and operate.
>
> Lol :)
>
> Just so we can get a real understanding of just how difficult this all
> was, what make and model are you talking about here?
>
>> And there's no key. Just a fob that needs to be near the car for it to
>> be possible to start it.
>
> None of this is new. Well, perhaps it is to you, but then it sounds like
> you live in a cave and drive a car Fred Flinstone would be happy to own.
>
>> Where was the need to make things so awkward?
>
> There is nothing "awkward" about any of this other than the fact that
> you plonked your backside in a vehicle that you're totally unfamiliar
> with, and because you seemed incapable of working out the basics in a
> relatively short time that became the *vehicle's* fault.
>
> You are the most one dimensional character imaginable. Stick to driving
> antiquated shit, as it sounds like the limit of your ability.
>

Unbelievable...

As an aside, since you are unqualified and therefore can't work on any
vehicle under warranty - which dealer will be servicing your hulkster? :-)

--
In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
proven liar."

On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."

On 19/08/2023 12:12 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 19/08/2023 9:29 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> I've had to hire car while travelling interstate.
>>
>> The one provided has all the automation mod-cons, and I hate it.
>
> I'm sure it hates you, too.
>
>> Took me 15 minutes just to figure out how to turn the radio off.
>
> 15 minutes. Really?
>
> It was mentioned here once that you hold a private pilot's licence.
> Please tell me that isn't true....
>> Later there was the question of head-lights. Turns out they're
>> automatic too, but I had to read the manual to figure that out. They
>> seem to stay on for a while after on leaves the car too, making me
>> concerned about whether they're actually going to turn off.
>
> Automatic headlights have been around for some time....
>
>> And of course it has no proper hand brake - just a small lever that
>> operates a motor somewhere.
>
> So have electric park brakes.

Evil fucking things, I want to decide when the parking brake comes off
not when the car thinks it should.

I suppose that they are a boon for people who can't do hill starts, but,
if you can't do a hill start in a manual, you're a shit driver, if you
can't do a hill start in an auto then you shouldn't be allowed on the road.

> There is nothing "awkward" about any of this other than the fact that
> you plonked your backside in a vehicle that you're totally unfamiliar
> with, and because you seemed incapable of working out the basics in a
> relatively short time that became the *vehicle's* fault.

Last year, in the UK, we hired a car. It was a manual MG ZS, not much of
a car but cheap (relatively). I did my usual thing, drove out of the
hire place and found a quiet spot to park and work out the controls (was
there a manual? ha ha not even a spare tyre just a 0800 number to call
if you got a puncture - great on a motorway). Anyway, I worked out the
buttons, switches and screen icons, but the missus wanted something from
the boot, I couldn't get out, the stupid fucking car would not unlock
the door. I had to find the correct combination of things to unlock it,
I can't remember what it was but something like engine off gear in
neutral, clutch up, hand brake on, and right index finger stuck in left
ear. Stupid and IMHO potentially dangerous, but it did have a manual
parking brake.

That's one reason I like my MX-5, it does exactly what I tell it to,
nothing more, nothing less.

On 19/08/2023 9:29 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
> I've had to hire car while travelling interstate.
>
> The one provided has all the automation mod-cons, and I hate it.
>
> Took me 15 minutes just to figure out how to turn the radio off.
>
> Later there was the question of head-lights. Turns out they're automatic
> too, but I had to read the manual to figure that out. They seem to stay
> on for a while after on leaves the car too, making me concerned about
> whether they're actually going to turn off.
>
> And of course it has no proper hand brake - just a small lever that
> operates a motor somewhere.
>
> There isn't even a conventional gear-shift for the automatic
> transmission - just another little lever that one has to look at just to
> find and operate.
>
> And there's no key. Just a fob that needs to be near the car for it to
> be possible to start it.
>
> Where was the need to make things so awkward?
>
> Sylvia.

FWIW this is a Cupra Formentor (not the hybrid version). Other than the
automation, which is not just annoying, but at times distracting, it
seems nothing special.

I noticed today that is has a warning light to show that a vehicle is
passing. No doubt so that one doesn't change lanes at that time. Great,
except that if one uses that instead of, you know, looking, and one day
it doesn't work...

And I still haven't figured out how to tell the navigation system to
cancel a route. Even the manual seems to lack any mention of it.

Sylvia.

On 19/08/2023 5:27 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 19/08/2023 12:12 pm, Noddy wrote:

>>> And of course it has no proper hand brake - just a small lever that
>>> operates a motor somewhere.
>>
>> So have electric park brakes.
>
> Evil fucking things, I want to decide when the parking brake comes off
> not when the car thinks it should.

Most of them don't come off until you try to move the car either forward
or backward, which is when they should come off.

> I suppose that they are a boon for people who can't do hill starts, but,
> if you can't do a hill start in a manual, you're a shit driver, if you
> can't do a hill start in an auto then you shouldn't be allowed on the road.

The "auto hold" function in most cars uses the park brake to do the
holding, but it's a separate function to a dedicated use of the brake
itself. It's fully automatic and doesn't release until you press the
throttle which is precisely what you want it to do.

Why you seem to think these things are a problem I'm fucked if I know.
They're easier to use than any conventional hand brake.

>> There is nothing "awkward" about any of this other than the fact that
>> you plonked your backside in a vehicle that you're totally unfamiliar
>> with, and because you seemed incapable of working out the basics in a
>> relatively short time that became the *vehicle's* fault.
>
> Last year, in the UK, we hired a car. It was a manual MG ZS, not much of
> a car but cheap (relatively). I did my usual thing, drove out of the
> hire place and found a quiet spot to park and work out the controls (was
> there a manual? ha ha not even a spare tyre just a 0800 number to call
> if you got a puncture - great on a motorway). Anyway, I worked out the
> buttons, switches and screen icons, but the missus wanted something from
> the boot, I couldn't get out, the stupid fucking car would not unlock
> the door. I had to find the correct combination of things to unlock it,
> I can't remember what it was but something like engine off gear in
> neutral, clutch up, hand brake on, and right index finger stuck in left
> ear. Stupid and IMHO potentially dangerous, but it did have a manual
> parking brake.

I'd be genuinely interested in seeing that in action, as I haven't come
across a car yet that didn't have a manual override of any auto locked
door.

> That's one reason I like my MX-5, it does exactly what I tell it to,
> nothing more, nothing less.

I'm pretty sure most modern cars do precisely that as well, *if* you're
prepared to put a few minutes in to learn how to correctly operate one.

15 minutes to work out how to turn off a radio? I don't thinks so.... :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 19/8/2023 4:22 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 19/08/2023 10:12 am, Noddy wrote:
>> On 19/08/2023 9:29 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>> I've had to hire car while travelling interstate.
>>>
>>> The one provided has all the automation mod-cons, and I hate it.
>>
>> I'm sure it hates you, too.
>>
>>> Took me 15 minutes just to figure out how to turn the radio off.
>>
>> 15 minutes. Really?
>>
>> It was mentioned here once that you hold a private pilot's licence.
>> Please tell me that isn't true....
>>> Later there was the question of head-lights. Turns out they're
>>> automatic too, but I had to read the manual to figure that out. They
>>> seem to stay on for a while after on leaves the car too, making me
>>> concerned about whether they're actually going to turn off.
>>
>> Automatic headlights have been around for some time....
>>
>>> And of course it has no proper hand brake - just a small lever that
>>> operates a motor somewhere.
>>
>> So have electric park brakes.
>>
>>> There isn't even a conventional gear-shift for the automatic
>>> transmission - just another little lever that one has to look at just
>>> to find and operate.
>>
>> Lol :)
>>
>> Just so we can get a real understanding of just how difficult this all
>> was, what make and model are you talking about here?
>>
>>> And there's no key. Just a fob that needs to be near the car for it
>>> to be possible to start it.
>>
>> None of this is new. Well, perhaps it is to you, but then it sounds
>> like you live in a cave and drive a car Fred Flinstone would be happy
>> to own.
>>
>>> Where was the need to make things so awkward?
>>
>> There is nothing "awkward" about any of this other than the fact that
>> you plonked your backside in a vehicle that you're totally unfamiliar
>> with, and because you seemed incapable of working out the basics in a
>> relatively short time that became the *vehicle's* fault.
>>
>> You are the most one dimensional character imaginable. Stick to
>> driving antiquated shit, as it sounds like the limit of your ability.
>>
>
> Unbelievable...
>
> As an aside, since you are unqualified and therefore can't work on any
> vehicle under warranty - which dealer will be servicing your hulkster? :-)
>
It will have to be one of those *Ford dealerships* that he hates with a
passion. I'd like to be a fly on the wall when he presents for his first
service - probably won't say boo, meek little prick he is.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 19/08/2023 9:29 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
> I've had to hire car while travelling interstate.
>
> The one provided has all the automation mod-cons, and I hate it.
>
> Took me 15 minutes just to figure out how to turn the radio off.

**Well, I guess that could be tricky.

>
> Later there was the question of head-lights. Turns out they're
automatic too, but I had to read the manual to figure that out. They
seem to stay on for a while after on leaves the car too, making me
concerned about whether they're actually going to turn off.

**Normal for any modern car. My 22 year old Nissan does that.

>
> And of course it has no proper hand brake - just a small lever that
operates a motor somewhere.

**VERY common on modern cars. WAY better than a regular parking brake.
Works perfectly EVERY time. Unless you own a shitbox Mustang. That car
is still mired in the 20th century.

>
> There isn't even a conventional gear-shift for the automatic
transmission - just another little lever that one has to look at just to
find and operate.

**Yep. Normal.

>
> And there's no key. Just a fob that needs to be near the car for it
to be possible to start it.

**Also very common.

>
> Where was the need to make things so awkward?

**They're not awkward at all. Just SLIGHTLY different. Are you turning
into an old fart?

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 19/08/2023 5:58 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 19/08/2023 5:27 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 19/08/2023 12:12 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>>> And of course it has no proper hand brake - just a small lever that
>>>> operates a motor somewhere.
>>>
>>> So have electric park brakes.
>>
>> Evil fucking things, I want to decide when the parking brake comes off
>> not when the car thinks it should.
>
> Most of them don't come off until you try to move the car either forward
> or backward, which is when they should come off.
>
>> I suppose that they are a boon for people who can't do hill starts,
>> but, if you can't do a hill start in a manual, you're a shit driver,
>> if you can't do a hill start in an auto then you shouldn't be allowed
>> on the road.
>
> The "auto hold" function in most cars uses the park brake to do the
> holding, but it's a separate function to a dedicated use of the brake
> itself. It's fully automatic and doesn't release until you press the
> throttle which is precisely what you want it to do.
>
> Why you seem to think these things are a problem I'm fucked if I know.
> They're easier to use than any conventional hand brake.
>
>>> There is nothing "awkward" about any of this other than the fact that
>>> you plonked your backside in a vehicle that you're totally unfamiliar
>>> with, and because you seemed incapable of working out the basics in a
>>> relatively short time that became the *vehicle's* fault.
>>
>> Last year, in the UK, we hired a car. It was a manual MG ZS, not much
>> of a car but cheap (relatively). I did my usual thing, drove out of
>> the hire place and found a quiet spot to park and work out the
>> controls (was there a manual? ha ha not even a spare tyre just a 0800
>> number to call if you got a puncture - great on a motorway). Anyway, I
>> worked out the buttons, switches and screen icons, but the missus
>> wanted something from the boot, I couldn't get out, the stupid fucking
>> car would not unlock the door. I had to find the correct combination
>> of things to unlock it, I can't remember what it was but something
>> like engine off gear in neutral, clutch up, hand brake on, and right
>> index finger stuck in left ear. Stupid and IMHO potentially dangerous,
>> but it did have a manual parking brake.
>
> I'd be genuinely interested in seeing that in action, as I haven't come
> across a car yet that didn't have a manual override of any auto locked
> door.
>
>> That's one reason I like my MX-5, it does exactly what I tell it to,
>> nothing more, nothing less.
>
> I'm pretty sure most modern cars do precisely that as well, *if* you're
> prepared to put a few minutes in to learn how to correctly operate one.
>
> 15 minutes to work out how to turn off a radio? I don't thinks so.... :)
>

**Emphatically agreed. Although I've only read 1/3rd of Subaru manual,
everything is pretty much obvious. Even with the 40-odd buttons on the
steering wheel. The only issue I found that caused me concern was trying
to find the manual headlight adjuster. I spent considerable time looking
for it. The instruction book showed where it should be, but I was unable
to locate it. I finally turned the page, only to find that my model
Levorg has auto adjusting headlights. Duh! Oh and the mapping function
is very un-intuitive. I just use my 'phone.

The electric parking brake is simply brilliant. How the Hell anyone
could complain is beyond belief.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 20/08/2023 8:21 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 19/08/2023 5:58 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 19/08/2023 5:27 pm, Keithr0 wrote:

>>> That's one reason I like my MX-5, it does exactly what I tell it to,
>>> nothing more, nothing less.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure most modern cars do precisely that as well, *if*
>> you're prepared to put a few minutes in to learn how to correctly
>> operate one.
>>
>> 15 minutes to work out how to turn off a radio? I don't thinks so.... :)
>>
>
> **Emphatically agreed. Although I've only read 1/3rd of Subaru manual,
> everything is pretty much obvious. Even with the 40-odd buttons on the
> steering wheel.

Exactly.

When I picked up my new Ranger a month or so ago, it came with a
*shitload* more controls than the 10 year old Navara it replaced had.
The dealer gave me the customary 30 second "this does this and that does
that" familiarisation course that they give all new car purchasers, but
that generally goes in one ear and out the other as quickly as they rush
you through it. You're largely left to your own devices on your drive home.

Like Keith mentioned, whenever I'm in a car I'm not familiar with I like
to pull over and take a moment to go through the basics, and while
there's some variation between manufacturers most things are pretty much
self explanatory. Some minor details weren't obvious, such as the
"resume" button on the cruise control which I had to look up in the
manual for example, but aside from that there was nothing overly
difficult or complicated.

It's also helpful that the car ships with the owner's manual in PDF form
on the entertainment unit and is searchable.

The only issue I found that caused me concern was trying
> to find the manual headlight adjuster. I spent considerable time looking
> for it. The instruction book showed where it should be, but I was unable
> to locate it. I finally turned the page, only to find that my model
> Levorg has auto adjusting headlights. Duh!

I've only found two controls on the Ranger which weren't immediately
obvious. The first was the resume function of the cruise control which
requires the button to be pushed in rather than up or down as it looked
like it needed to be, and the other was the control for the fog lights.
The vehicle has auto headlights which can be operated in a bunch of
different modes by turning a rotary dial, and the fog lights are turned
on or off by pushing the dial in.

Aside from that, everything else was glaringly obvious. Including the
radio :)

Oh and the mapping function
> is very un-intuitive. I just use my 'phone.

Same. The onboard map system in the Ford is excellent, and I like that
it highlights nearby service stations with the price they're selling
diesel for shown on the map. So far it's proved to be very accurate and
it's great when you're in a populated area and can see a big variation
in fuel prices.

However most times I use Android auto as it has a wireless link to the
phone which stays in my pocket and as I'm usually using either Spotify
or Amazon music while I'm driving it makes it all easier.

Both the integrated map system and Android Auto are voice activated, and
both work exceptionally well in that role.

> The electric parking brake is simply brilliant. How the Hell anyone
> could complain is beyond belief.

Yeah, I don't get that either. Both our Santa Fe and Ranger have them
now, and I wouldn't use any other type. In fact I like them so much I'm
going to incorporate one into my old F-100 and get rid of the shitty old
mechanical system that you need to be Charles Atlas to use :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 19/8/2023 9:29 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
> I've had to hire car while travelling interstate.
>
> The one provided has all the automation mod-cons, and I hate it.
>
> Took me 15 minutes just to figure out how to turn the radio off.
>
> Later there was the question of head-lights. Turns out they're automatic
> too, but I had to read the manual to figure that out. They seem to stay
> on for a while after on leaves the car too, making me concerned about
> whether they're actually going to turn off.
>
> And of course it has no proper hand brake - just a small lever that
> operates a motor somewhere.
>
> There isn't even a conventional gear-shift for the automatic
> transmission - just another little lever that one has to look at just to
> find and operate.

LOL, reminds of the last time I was in the UK, I rented an almost new C
Class MB, started the engine no problem then I sat there for 10mins
trying to figure out how to get it into gear, eventually I found the
small stalk on the rh side of the steering column, some time later I had
to reverse and it took a while to figure that out too:-)
>
> And there's no key. Just a fob that needs to be near the car for it to
> be possible to start it.
>
> Where was the need to make things so awkward?
>

LOL, been that way for quite some time, my 2002 MB has auto headlamps
and many cars have had electric handbrakes (wife's Golf, mates 10yr old
Volvo) for a very long time.
It pays to sit for a while when first getting into a different car and
try and learn where the controls are.

--
Daryl

On 19/8/2023 5:27 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 19/08/2023 12:12 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 19/08/2023 9:29 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>> I've had to hire car while travelling interstate.
>>>
>>> The one provided has all the automation mod-cons, and I hate it.
>>
>> I'm sure it hates you, too.
>>
>>> Took me 15 minutes just to figure out how to turn the radio off.
>>
>> 15 minutes. Really?
>>
>> It was mentioned here once that you hold a private pilot's licence.
>> Please tell me that isn't true....
>>> Later there was the question of head-lights. Turns out they're
>>> automatic too, but I had to read the manual to figure that out. They
>>> seem to stay on for a while after on leaves the car too, making me
>>> concerned about whether they're actually going to turn off.
>>
>> Automatic headlights have been around for some time....
>>
>>> And of course it has no proper hand brake - just a small lever that
>>> operates a motor somewhere.
>>
>> So have electric park brakes.
>
> Evil fucking things, I want to decide when the parking brake comes off
> not when the car thinks it should.

Our VW Golf has an electric handbrake and its very easy to use, you can
either release it via its switch on the console next to the gear
selector or just let it release itself as soon as you start to move,
pretty simple and the advantage that it won't let you drive with the
handbrake on.
>
> I suppose that they are a boon for people who can't do hill starts, but,
> if you can't do a hill start in a manual, you're a shit driver, if you
> can't do a hill start in an auto then you shouldn't be allowed on the road.
>
>> There is nothing "awkward" about any of this other than the fact that
>> you plonked your backside in a vehicle that you're totally unfamiliar
>> with, and because you seemed incapable of working out the basics in a
>> relatively short time that became the *vehicle's* fault.
>
> Last year, in the UK, we hired a car. It was a manual MG ZS, not much of
> a car but cheap (relatively). I did my usual thing, drove out of the
> hire place and found a quiet spot to park and work out the controls (was
> there a manual? ha ha not even a spare tyre just a 0800 number to call
> if you got a puncture - great on a motorway). Anyway, I worked out the
> buttons, switches and screen icons, but the missus wanted something from
> the boot, I couldn't get out, the stupid fucking car would not unlock
> the door. I had to find the correct combination of things to unlock it,
> I can't remember what it was but something like engine off gear in
> neutral, clutch up, hand brake on, and right index finger stuck in left
> ear. Stupid and IMHO potentially dangerous, but it did have a manual
> parking brake.

Not being able to get out easily is very bad design and as you say
potentially dangerous.

>
> That's one reason I like my MX-5, it does exactly what I tell it to,
> nothing more, nothing less.
>

In that type of car simplicity is ideal bu high tech has taken over cars
whether we like it or not, some tech is very good whilst others seem to
be tech just for the hell of it.

--
Daryl

On 20/08/2023 11:05 am, Daryl wrote:
> On 19/8/2023 5:27 pm, Keithr0 wrote:

>> Last year, in the UK, we hired a car. It was a manual MG ZS, not much
>> of a car but cheap (relatively). I did my usual thing, drove out of
>> the hire place and found a quiet spot to park and work out the
>> controls (was there a manual? ha ha not even a spare tyre just a 0800
>> number to call if you got a puncture - great on a motorway). Anyway, I
>> worked out the buttons, switches and screen icons, but the missus
>> wanted something from the boot, I couldn't get out, the stupid fucking
>> car would not unlock the door. I had to find the correct combination
>> of things to unlock it, I can't remember what it was but something
>> like engine off gear in neutral, clutch up, hand brake on, and right
>> index finger stuck in left ear. Stupid and IMHO potentially dangerous,
>> but it did have a manual parking brake.
>
> Not being able to get out easily is very bad design and as you say
> potentially dangerous.

I would have thought any car that locked you in with no means of getting
out manually would be illegal.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 19/8/2023 5:49 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 19/08/2023 9:29 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> I've had to hire car while travelling interstate.
>>
>> The one provided has all the automation mod-cons, and I hate it.
>>
>> Took me 15 minutes just to figure out how to turn the radio off.
>>
>> Later there was the question of head-lights. Turns out they're
>> automatic too, but I had to read the manual to figure that out. They
>> seem to stay on for a while after on leaves the car too, making me
>> concerned about whether they're actually going to turn off.
>>
>> And of course it has no proper hand brake - just a small lever that
>> operates a motor somewhere.
>>
>> There isn't even a conventional gear-shift for the automatic
>> transmission - just another little lever that one has to look at just
>> to find and operate.
>>
>> And there's no key. Just a fob that needs to be near the car for it to
>> be possible to start it.
>>
>> Where was the need to make things so awkward?
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> FWIW this is a Cupra Formentor (not the hybrid version). Other than the
> automation, which is not just annoying, but at times distracting, it
> seems nothing special.
>
> I noticed today that is has a warning light to show that a vehicle is
> passing. No doubt so that one doesn't change lanes at that time. Great,
> except that if one uses that instead of, you know, looking, and one day
> it doesn't work...

Nothing new about that, I'm surprised your Subaru doesn't have it, a
couple of months ago we test drove a new XV and it had that feature,
part of Subaru's "eyesight" package.
When I was in Qld a few weeks ago I drove a couple of years old Kia
Cerato and my brother in laws Ford Focus, both have that lane
change/blind spot warning feature.

--
Daryl

On 19/8/2023 7:27 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 19/08/2023 9:29 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > I've had to hire car while travelling interstate.
> >
> > The one provided has all the automation mod-cons, and I hate it.
> >
> > Took me 15 minutes just to figure out how to turn the radio off.
>
> **Well, I guess that could be tricky.
>
> >
> > Later there was the question of head-lights. Turns out they're
> automatic too, but I had to read the manual to figure that out. They
> seem to stay on for a while after on leaves the car too, making me
> concerned about whether they're actually going to turn off.
>
> **Normal for any modern car. My 22 year old Nissan does that.
>
> >
> > And of course it has no proper hand brake - just a small lever that
> operates a motor somewhere.
>
> **VERY common on modern cars. WAY better than a regular parking brake.
> Works perfectly EVERY time. Unless you own a shitbox Mustang. That car
> is still mired in the 20th century.
>
> >
> > There isn't even a conventional gear-shift for the automatic
> transmission - just another little lever that one has to look at just to
> find and operate.
>
> **Yep. Normal.
>
> >
> > And there's no key. Just a fob that needs to be near the car for it
> to be possible to start it.
>
> **Also very common.
>
> >
> > Where was the need to make things so awkward?
>
> **They're not awkward at all. Just SLIGHTLY different. Are you turning
> into an old fart?
>
>
LOL, aren't we all:-)
I very much dislike electric cars, not because they are electric but
because the manufacturers seem to go out of their way to make them as
weird as possible with ridiculous dash boards that look like video games
and other weird and wonderful crap just for the sake of being different.
Stuffed if I know why they don't just make them look and drive like
normal cars.

--
Daryl

On 20/8/2023 11:16 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 20/08/2023 11:05 am, Daryl wrote:
>> On 19/8/2023 5:27 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>
>>> Last year, in the UK, we hired a car. It was a manual MG ZS, not much
>>> of a car but cheap (relatively). I did my usual thing, drove out of
>>> the hire place and found a quiet spot to park and work out the
>>> controls (was there a manual? ha ha not even a spare tyre just a 0800
>>> number to call if you got a puncture - great on a motorway). Anyway,
>>> I worked out the buttons, switches and screen icons, but the missus
>>> wanted something from the boot, I couldn't get out, the stupid
>>> fucking car would not unlock the door. I had to find the correct
>>> combination of things to unlock it, I can't remember what it was but
>>> something like engine off gear in neutral, clutch up, hand brake on,
>>> and right index finger stuck in left ear. Stupid and IMHO potentially
>>> dangerous, but it did have a manual parking brake.
>>
>> Not being able to get out easily is very bad design and as you say
>> potentially dangerous.
>
> I would have thought any car that locked you in with no means of getting
> out manually would be illegal.
>

Agree, no one should need to do anything special to just exit a car.

--
Daryl

On 20/8/2023 10:14 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 20/08/2023 8:21 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 19/08/2023 5:58 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 19/08/2023 5:27 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>
>>>> That's one reason I like my MX-5, it does exactly what I tell it to,
>>>> nothing more, nothing less.
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure most modern cars do precisely that as well, *if*
>>> you're prepared to put a few minutes in to learn how to correctly
>>> operate one.
>>>
>>> 15 minutes to work out how to turn off a radio? I don't thinks so.... :)
>>>
>>
>> **Emphatically agreed. Although I've only read 1/3rd of Subaru manual,
>> everything is pretty much obvious. Even with the 40-odd buttons on the
>> steering wheel.
>
> Exactly.
>
> When I picked up my new Ranger a month or so ago, it came with a
> *shitload* more controls than the 10 year old Navara it replaced had.
> The dealer gave me the customary 30 second "this does this and that does
> that" familiarisation course that they give all new car purchasers, but
> that generally goes in one ear and out the other as quickly as they rush

That goes without saying in your case - nothing in there to slow the
information flow.

> you through it. You're largely left to your own devices on your drive home.
>
> Like Keith mentioned, whenever I'm in a car I'm not familiar with I like
> to pull over and take a moment to go through the basics, and while
> there's some variation between manufacturers most things are pretty much
> self explanatory. Some minor details weren't obvious, such as the
> "resume" button on the cruise control which I had to look up in the
> manual for example, but aside from that there was nothing overly
> difficult or complicated.
>
> It's also helpful that the car ships with the owner's manual in PDF form
> on the entertainment unit and is searchable.

Just like you looking up stuff on Google, eh?
>
> The only issue I found that caused me concern was trying
>> to find the manual headlight adjuster. I spent considerable time
>> looking for it. The instruction book showed where it should be, but I
>> was unable to locate it. I finally turned the page, only to find that
>> my model Levorg has auto adjusting headlights. Duh!
>
> I've only found two controls on the Ranger which weren't immediately
> obvious. The first was the resume function of the cruise control which
> requires the button to be pushed in rather than up or down as it looked
> like it needed to be, and the other was the control for the fog lights.
> The vehicle has auto headlights which can be operated in a bunch of
> different modes by turning a rotary dial, and the fog lights are turned
> on or off by pushing the dial in.
>
> Aside from that, everything else was glaringly obvious. Including the
> radio :)
>
Entertainment unit Darren. They ceased being *just a radio* many decades
ago.
>
>  Oh and the mapping function
>> is very un-intuitive. I just use my 'phone.
>
> Same. The onboard map system in the Ford is excellent, and I like that
> it highlights nearby service stations with the price they're selling
> diesel for shown on the map. So far it's proved to be very accurate and
> it's great when you're in a populated area and can see a big variation
> in fuel prices.
>
> However most times I use Android auto as it has a wireless link to the
> phone which stays in my pocket and as I'm usually using either Spotify
> or Amazon music while I'm driving it makes it all easier.
>
> Both the integrated map system and Android Auto are voice activated, and
> both work exceptionally well in that role.
>
>
>> The electric parking brake is simply brilliant. How the Hell anyone
>> could complain is beyond belief.
>
> Yeah, I don't get that either. Both our Santa Fe and Ranger have them
> now, and I wouldn't use any other type. In fact I like them so much I'm
> going to incorporate one into my old F-100 and get rid of the shitty old
> mechanical system that you need to be Charles Atlas to use :)

No Darren, you just need to be an average person of average strength to
be capable of using it. That you are sub-par in the muscles department
comes as no surprise.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 20/08/2023 1:59 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 20/8/2023 11:16 am, Noddy wrote:

>>> Not being able to get out easily is very bad design and as you say
>>> potentially dangerous.
>>
>> I would have thought any car that locked you in with no means of
>> getting out manually would be illegal.
>>
>
> Agree, no one should need to do anything special to just exit a car.

It's a bit bizarre.

I have auto door lock enabled on the Ranger. Not something I've even
considered until recent times until the wife had some drug skank open
her passenger front door and try to knick her bag as she was stopped at
a red light. The unfortunate thing for him is that the light had changed
and she was taking off just as he leaned in to grab it, and the door
slammed shut on his arm.

Hope it broke it in 27 places and the cunt died a horrible death. He
would have had I been there :)

Anyway, that night we decided to enable auto door locking which were off
by default. Pretty simple feature. Once the car hits 20km/h or
thereabouts it locks all the doors and doesn't unlock them again until
the car is stationary and the transmission put into park. It's a pretty
decent safety feature which in these times of car jackings and general
cuntiness is pretty handy.

When I got the Ranger I wondered if it had the same thing, as I'm sure
the wife would prefer it to be enabled if it does. According to Ford and
their website the car doesn't have that capability, but has a
"convenient lock/unlock" button on each door that you can use. However
according to Forscan it *does* have autolock capability, but it's just
not enabled from the factory.

I've used Forscan to enable the autolock (amongst other "hidden"
features), and it works very well. But where it differs from the Hyundai
is that it doesn't automatically unlock by itself when you stop the car
and put the trans in park and in fact will only unlock if you manually
open one of the doors.

Just the way Ford thought of doing it I guess, but then the reason why
autolock isn't enabled from the factory is most likely someone realised
after the fact that in the event of an accident where the doors are
locked and the occupant unconscious in the car you can't open the door
from the outside and would need to break in to rescue them. This is
obviously something that no one thought about at the time, and while I'm
not particularly bothered by it I can clearly see a case for a civil
suit if someone were to die as a result of outsiders not being able to
open the car.

Still, despite this any door can be opened from the inside easily even
with the autolock engaged by using the manual handle, and I've never
come across a car where the manual handle was made completely
inoperative by an electronic lock.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 20/08/2023 11:25 am, Daryl wrote:
> On 19/8/2023 7:27 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 19/08/2023 9:29 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>  > I've had to hire car while travelling interstate.
>>  >
>>  > The one provided has all the automation mod-cons, and I hate it.
>>  >
>>  > Took me 15 minutes just to figure out how to turn the radio off.
>>
>> **Well, I guess that could be tricky.
>>
>>  >
>>  > Later there was the question of head-lights. Turns out they're
>> automatic too, but I had to read the manual to figure that out. They
>> seem to stay on for a while after on leaves the car too, making me
>> concerned about whether they're actually going to turn off.
>>
>> **Normal for any modern car. My 22 year old Nissan does that.
>>
>>  >
>>  > And of course it has no proper hand brake - just a small lever that
>> operates a motor somewhere.
>>
>> **VERY common on modern cars. WAY better than a regular parking brake.
>> Works perfectly EVERY time. Unless you own a shitbox Mustang. That car
>> is still mired in the 20th century.
>>
>>  >
>>  > There isn't even a conventional gear-shift for the automatic
>> transmission - just another little lever that one has to look at just
>> to find and operate.
>>
>> **Yep. Normal.
>>
>>  >
>>  > And there's no key. Just a fob that needs to be near the car for it
>> to be possible to start it.
>>
>> **Also very common.
>>
>>  >
>>  > Where was the need to make things so awkward?
>>
>> **They're not awkward at all. Just SLIGHTLY different. Are you turning
>> into an old fart?
>>
>>
> LOL, aren't we all:-)
> I very much dislike electric cars, not because they are electric but
> because the manufacturers seem to go out of their way to make them as
> weird as possible with ridiculous dash boards that look like video games
> and other weird and wonderful crap just for the sake of being different.
> Stuffed if I know why they don't just make them look and drive like
> normal cars.
>

**You should take a look at the new, upmarket Mercs then. A Metre and a
half of computer screen stretched out in front of you. Much as I dislike
Mercs, I must say I like their mapping system. Very cool.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 20/08/2023 11:16 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 20/08/2023 11:05 am, Daryl wrote:
>> On 19/8/2023 5:27 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>
>>> Last year, in the UK, we hired a car. It was a manual MG ZS, not much
>>> of a car but cheap (relatively). I did my usual thing, drove out of
>>> the hire place and found a quiet spot to park and work out the
>>> controls (was there a manual? ha ha not even a spare tyre just a 0800
>>> number to call if you got a puncture - great on a motorway). Anyway,
>>> I worked out the buttons, switches and screen icons, but the missus
>>> wanted something from the boot, I couldn't get out, the stupid
>>> fucking car would not unlock the door. I had to find the correct
>>> combination of things to unlock it, I can't remember what it was but
>>> something like engine off gear in neutral, clutch up, hand brake on,
>>> and right index finger stuck in left ear. Stupid and IMHO potentially
>>> dangerous, but it did have a manual parking brake.
>>
>> Not being able to get out easily is very bad design and as you say
>> potentially dangerous.
>
> I would have thought any car that locked you in with no means of getting
> out manually would be illegal.
>

**That's one feature I really liked about my VP Commodore. It was
possible to dead-lock all four doors from the outside (with the key, not
the remote). Once dead-locked, the only way out was to smash a window. I
thought it was an excellent feature.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 20/8/2023 2:32 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 20/08/2023 1:59 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 20/8/2023 11:16 am, Noddy wrote:
>
>>>> Not being able to get out easily is very bad design and as you say
>>>> potentially dangerous.
>>>
>>> I would have thought any car that locked you in with no means of
>>> getting out manually would be illegal.
>>>
>>
>> Agree, no one should need to do anything special to just exit a car.
>
> It's a bit bizarre.
>
> I have auto door lock enabled on the Ranger. Not something I've even
> considered until recent times until the wife had some drug skank open
> her passenger front door and try to knick her bag as she was stopped at
> a red light. The unfortunate thing for him is that the light had changed
> and she was taking off just as he leaned in to grab it, and the door
> slammed shut on his arm.
>
> Hope it broke it in 27 places and the cunt died a horrible death. He
> would have had I been there :)
>
> Anyway, that night we decided to enable auto door locking which were off
> by default. Pretty simple feature. Once the car hits 20km/h or
> thereabouts it locks all the doors and doesn't unlock them again until
> the car is stationary and the transmission put into park. It's a pretty
> decent safety feature which in these times of car jackings and general
> cuntiness is pretty handy.
>
> When I got the Ranger I wondered if it had the same thing, as I'm sure
> the wife would prefer it to be enabled if it does. According to Ford and
> their website the car doesn't have that capability, but has a
> "convenient lock/unlock" button on each door that you can use. However
> according to Forscan it *does* have autolock capability, but it's just
> not enabled from the factory.
>
> I've used Forscan to enable the autolock (amongst other "hidden"
> features), and it works very well. But where it differs from the Hyundai
> is that it doesn't automatically unlock by itself when you stop the car
> and put the trans in park and in fact will only unlock if you manually
> open one of the doors.
>
> Just the way Ford thought of doing it I guess, but then the reason why
> autolock isn't enabled from the factory is most likely someone realised
> after the fact that in the event of an accident where the doors are
> locked and the occupant unconscious in the car you can't open the door
> from the outside and would need to break in to rescue them. This is
> obviously something that no one thought about at the time, and while I'm
> not particularly bothered by it I can clearly see a case for a civil
> suit if someone were to die as a result of outsiders not being able to
> open the car.

I suspect that in the event of a crash the doors would automatically
unlock, pretty sure that's how MB does it.
My MB and the Golf lock the doors once you go over about 5kph.

--
Daryl

On 20/8/2023 3:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 20/08/2023 11:25 am, Daryl wrote:
>> On 19/8/2023 7:27 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 19/08/2023 9:29 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>  > I've had to hire car while travelling interstate.
>>>  >
>>>  > The one provided has all the automation mod-cons, and I hate it.
>>>  >
>>>  > Took me 15 minutes just to figure out how to turn the radio off.
>>>
>>> **Well, I guess that could be tricky.
>>>
>>>  >
>>>  > Later there was the question of head-lights. Turns out they're
>>> automatic too, but I had to read the manual to figure that out. They
>>> seem to stay on for a while after on leaves the car too, making me
>>> concerned about whether they're actually going to turn off.
>>>
>>> **Normal for any modern car. My 22 year old Nissan does that.
>>>
>>>  >
>>>  > And of course it has no proper hand brake - just a small lever
>>> that operates a motor somewhere.
>>>
>>> **VERY common on modern cars. WAY better than a regular parking
>>> brake. Works perfectly EVERY time. Unless you own a shitbox Mustang.
>>> That car is still mired in the 20th century.
>>>
>>>  >
>>>  > There isn't even a conventional gear-shift for the automatic
>>> transmission - just another little lever that one has to look at just
>>> to find and operate.
>>>
>>> **Yep. Normal.
>>>
>>>  >
>>>  > And there's no key. Just a fob that needs to be near the car for
>>> it to be possible to start it.
>>>
>>> **Also very common.
>>>
>>>  >
>>>  > Where was the need to make things so awkward?
>>>
>>> **They're not awkward at all. Just SLIGHTLY different. Are you
>>> turning into an old fart?
>>>
>>>
>> LOL, aren't we all:-)
>> I very much dislike electric cars, not because they are electric but
>> because the manufacturers seem to go out of their way to make them as
>> weird as possible with ridiculous dash boards that look like video
>> games and other weird and wonderful crap just for the sake of being
>> different.
>> Stuffed if I know why they don't just make them look and drive like
>> normal cars.
>>
>
> **You should take a look at the new, upmarket Mercs then. A Metre and a
> half of computer screen stretched out in front of you. Much as I dislike
> Mercs, I must say I like their mapping system. Very cool.
>

I don't like those silly massive touch screens in any car, I've seen
videos of the MB screens and they do look impressive but IMHO pointless
since a driver is supposed to be looking at the road ahead, not at a screen.
I do like digital speedos but they don't need to be huge or on a big
screen, just in front of the driver.

--
Daryl

On 20/08/2023 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 20/08/2023 11:16 am, Noddy wrote:

>> I would have thought any car that locked you in with no means of
>> getting out manually would be illegal.
>>
>
> **That's one feature I really liked about my VP Commodore. It was
> possible to dead-lock all four doors from the outside (with the key, not
> the remote). Once dead-locked, the only way out was to smash a window. I
> thought it was an excellent feature.

Yeah, but that's something you did from the outside. Not once you were
in the car.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 20/08/2023 4:03 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 20/8/2023 3:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 20/08/2023 11:25 am, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 19/8/2023 7:27 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 19/08/2023 9:29 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>  > I've had to hire car while travelling interstate.
>>>>  >
>>>>  > The one provided has all the automation mod-cons, and I hate it.
>>>>  >
>>>>  > Took me 15 minutes just to figure out how to turn the radio off.
>>>>
>>>> **Well, I guess that could be tricky.
>>>>
>>>>  >
>>>>  > Later there was the question of head-lights. Turns out they're
>>>> automatic too, but I had to read the manual to figure that out. They
>>>> seem to stay on for a while after on leaves the car too, making me
>>>> concerned about whether they're actually going to turn off.
>>>>
>>>> **Normal for any modern car. My 22 year old Nissan does that.
>>>>
>>>>  >
>>>>  > And of course it has no proper hand brake - just a small lever
>>>> that operates a motor somewhere.
>>>>
>>>> **VERY common on modern cars. WAY better than a regular parking
>>>> brake. Works perfectly EVERY time. Unless you own a shitbox Mustang.
>>>> That car is still mired in the 20th century.
>>>>
>>>>  >
>>>>  > There isn't even a conventional gear-shift for the automatic
>>>> transmission - just another little lever that one has to look at
>>>> just to find and operate.
>>>>
>>>> **Yep. Normal.
>>>>
>>>>  >
>>>>  > And there's no key. Just a fob that needs to be near the car for
>>>> it to be possible to start it.
>>>>
>>>> **Also very common.
>>>>
>>>>  >
>>>>  > Where was the need to make things so awkward?
>>>>
>>>> **They're not awkward at all. Just SLIGHTLY different. Are you
>>>> turning into an old fart?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> LOL, aren't we all:-)
>>> I very much dislike electric cars, not because they are electric but
>>> because the manufacturers seem to go out of their way to make them as
>>> weird as possible with ridiculous dash boards that look like video
>>> games and other weird and wonderful crap just for the sake of being
>>> different.
>>> Stuffed if I know why they don't just make them look and drive like
>>> normal cars.
>>>
>>
>> **You should take a look at the new, upmarket Mercs then. A Metre and
>> a half of computer screen stretched out in front of you. Much as I
>> dislike Mercs, I must say I like their mapping system. Very cool.
>>
>
>
> I don't like those silly massive touch screens in any car, I've seen
> videos of the MB screens and they do look impressive but IMHO pointless
> since a driver is supposed to be looking at the road ahead, not at a
> screen.
> I do like digital speedos but they don't need to be huge or on a big
> screen, just in front of the driver.
>

**Whilst I have not seen a digital speedo (dial type), I kinda prefer a
mechanical one. Like those found in 1970s BMWs and other Euro cars.
Clear and unambiguous. FWIW: The Levorg mechanical speedo is a shitful
thing. I never look at it. Luckily the digital speedo is very good. Fast
updating and really obvious. Sadly, it is also obvious to SWMBO (aka:
The Handbrake). I can no longer claim: "Oh it's the parallax error
honey. I'm not really going that fast." Not that she ever bought that
one either.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com