Birthday lunch today at the fabulous Bistro Moncur at Woollahra:

https://www.bistromoncur.com.au/

A bit exciting for the missus. Sam Neil was sitting near the front of
the place.

Anyway, she talked me out of driving, as parking is a bitch in
Woollahra, so we caught the train to Central and hopped on a bus to
Woollahra. Weird bus. Smooth as butter and quiet as an angel's fart. Air
conditioning and all the mod cons, it was just like a regular bus but
WAY better. So, when I got out, I checked it out more closely. Yep. An
electric bus. Cool. On the way back, I was jolted back into real life in
a regular Diesel bus. Jerky gear changes and noisy as fuck.

Standing outside the restaurant, I spotted a truck delivering Jack
Daniels to the pub next door. An electric truck! How about that? I guess
it was about a 3 ~ 4 Tonne truck too. Not a teeny delivery van.

Great day. I don't feel much like dinner tonight.

--
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On 3/08/2023 4:24 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> Birthday lunch today at the fabulous Bistro Moncur at Woollahra:
>
> https://www.bistromoncur.com.au/
>
> A bit exciting for the missus. Sam Neil was sitting near the front of
> the place.
>
> Anyway, she talked me out of driving, as parking is a bitch in
> Woollahra, so we caught the train to Central and hopped on a bus to
> Woollahra. Weird bus. Smooth as butter and quiet as an angel's fart. Air
> conditioning and all the mod cons, it was just like a regular bus but
> WAY better. So, when I got out, I checked it out more closely. Yep. An
> electric bus. Cool. On the way back, I was jolted back into real life in
> a regular Diesel bus. Jerky gear changes and noisy as fuck.
>
> Standing outside the restaurant, I spotted a truck delivering Jack
> Daniels to the pub next door. An electric truck! How about that? I guess
> it was about a 3 ~ 4 Tonne truck too. Not a teeny delivery van.
>
> Great day. I don't feel much like dinner tonight.

Man you must be so easily satisfied :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 3/8/2023 5:12 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 3/08/2023 4:24 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> Birthday lunch today at the fabulous Bistro Moncur at Woollahra:
>>
>> https://www.bistromoncur.com.au/
>>
>> A bit exciting for the missus. Sam Neil was sitting near the front of
>> the place.
>>
>> Anyway, she talked me out of driving, as parking is a bitch in
>> Woollahra, so we caught the train to Central and hopped on a bus to
>> Woollahra. Weird bus. Smooth as butter and quiet as an angel's fart.
>> Air conditioning and all the mod cons, it was just like a regular bus
>> but WAY better. So, when I got out, I checked it out more closely.
>> Yep. An electric bus. Cool. On the way back, I was jolted back into
>> real life in a regular Diesel bus. Jerky gear changes and noisy as fuck.
>>
>> Standing outside the restaurant, I spotted a truck delivering Jack
>> Daniels to the pub next door. An electric truck! How about that? I
>> guess it was about a 3 ~ 4 Tonne truck too. Not a teeny delivery van.
>>
>> Great day. I don't feel much like dinner tonight.
>
> Man you must be so easily satisfied :)
>
Good food, nice company and a day out, what's not to like?

Your problem - you don't have the nice company to go out with and you
wouldn't know what good food even tasted like. Bistro dining in Bacchus
Marsh? Nope! Not the done thing in bogan land!

Last saturday evening my wife and I had a Thai night out in *The
Valley*, Fortitude Valley that is. A maxi taxi from Stafford to *The
Blue Moon* Thai restaurant in Wickham Street for dinner all done to real
Thai style, then around the corner to the *Soapbox Beer*
(brewery-bar-kitchen) for after dinner drinks and then upstairs for a
Thai concert. It was packed because well known singers were touring from
Thailand. The concert finished about 9:30pm and it was back round to
Wickham Street to a nightclub. It was a Thai nightclub so only Thai
music was played by the band and as the night drew on the music became
*heavier* until 2am, kickout time! The chap hosting us seemed rather
familiar with the staff and I asked if he came there often. Quite a lot
he said - found out later he was a co-owner. Ah hah! Explains a lot.

Keeping it relevant to cars, as Trevor so artfully managed, we used a
maxi taxi rather than the Toyota to get to the venue. Traffic's a real
pain around Wickham Street so I'm glad I wasn't trying to get there and
find a parking spot. Not really familiar with Brisbane roads. Bus and
train wouldn't have been options at 2am I suspect. ;-)

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 03-Aug-23 4:24 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> Birthday lunch today at the fabulous Bistro Moncur at Woollahra:
>
> https://www.bistromoncur.com.au/
>
> A bit exciting for the missus. Sam Neil was sitting near the front of
> the place.
>
> Anyway, she talked me out of driving, as parking is a bitch in
> Woollahra, so we caught the train to Central and hopped on a bus to
> Woollahra. Weird bus. Smooth as butter and quiet as an angel's fart. Air
> conditioning and all the mod cons, it was just like a regular bus but
> WAY better. So, when I got out, I checked it out more closely. Yep. An
> electric bus. Cool. On the way back, I was jolted back into real life in
> a regular Diesel bus. Jerky gear changes and noisy as fuck.
>
> Standing outside the restaurant, I spotted a truck delivering Jack
> Daniels to the pub next door. An electric truck! How about that? I guess
> it was about a 3 ~ 4 Tonne truck too. Not a teeny delivery van.
>
> Great day. I don't feel much like dinner tonight.
>
>

When I was a child living in London, there were deliveries of milk made
to the door each day. The vehicles used to do this were electric. Mind
you, they weren't that fast, but given that almost everyone got their
milk this way, they didn't need to be.

Sylvia.

On 3/8/2023 7:15 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 03-Aug-23 4:24 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> Birthday lunch today at the fabulous Bistro Moncur at Woollahra:
>>
>> https://www.bistromoncur.com.au/
>>
>> A bit exciting for the missus. Sam Neil was sitting near the front of
>> the place.
>>
>> Anyway, she talked me out of driving, as parking is a bitch in
>> Woollahra, so we caught the train to Central and hopped on a bus to
>> Woollahra. Weird bus. Smooth as butter and quiet as an angel's fart.
>> Air conditioning and all the mod cons, it was just like a regular bus
>> but WAY better. So, when I got out, I checked it out more closely.
>> Yep. An electric bus. Cool. On the way back, I was jolted back into
>> real life in a regular Diesel bus. Jerky gear changes and noisy as fuck.
>>
>> Standing outside the restaurant, I spotted a truck delivering Jack
>> Daniels to the pub next door. An electric truck! How about that? I
>> guess it was about a 3 ~ 4 Tonne truck too. Not a teeny delivery van.
>>
>> Great day. I don't feel much like dinner tonight.
>>
>>
>
> When I was a child living in London, there were deliveries of milk made
> to the door each day. The vehicles used to do this were electric. Mind
> you, they weren't that fast, but given that almost everyone got their
> milk this way, they didn't need to be.
>

Nothing new about electric vehicles, first time I drove an electric car
was in the mid 70's, the tech has come a long way since then with much
more power and range but the basics are still the same.
Melbourne has had electric public transport vehicles that are fast and
quiet since well before I was born, we call them trams:-)

--
Daryl

On 3/8/2023 9:31 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 3/8/2023 7:15 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 03-Aug-23 4:24 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> Birthday lunch today at the fabulous Bistro Moncur at Woollahra:
>>>
>>> https://www.bistromoncur.com.au/
>>>
>>> A bit exciting for the missus. Sam Neil was sitting near the front of
>>> the place.
>>>
>>> Anyway, she talked me out of driving, as parking is a bitch in
>>> Woollahra, so we caught the train to Central and hopped on a bus to
>>> Woollahra. Weird bus. Smooth as butter and quiet as an angel's fart.
>>> Air conditioning and all the mod cons, it was just like a regular bus
>>> but WAY better. So, when I got out, I checked it out more closely.
>>> Yep. An electric bus. Cool. On the way back, I was jolted back into
>>> real life in a regular Diesel bus. Jerky gear changes and noisy as fuck.
>>>
>>> Standing outside the restaurant, I spotted a truck delivering Jack
>>> Daniels to the pub next door. An electric truck! How about that? I
>>> guess it was about a 3 ~ 4 Tonne truck too. Not a teeny delivery van.
>>>
>>> Great day. I don't feel much like dinner tonight.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> When I was a child living in London, there were deliveries of milk
>> made to the door each day. The vehicles used to do this were electric.
>> Mind you, they weren't that fast, but given that almost everyone got
>> their milk this way, they didn't need to be.
>>
>
> Nothing new about electric vehicles, first time I drove an electric car
> was in the mid 70's, the tech has come a long way since then with much
> more power and range but the basics are still the same.
> Melbourne has had electric public transport vehicles that are fast and
> quiet since well before I was born, we call them trams:-)
>
In truth, your *comparison* sucks! In case you hadn't noticed, trams are
somewhat *tethered* - to a *power station* way off in the distance. Take
the panto down, or worse, take the tram off the rails, and you end up
with a rather large and *immobile* street ornament. In Tassie we had a
thing called trolley buses, 2 pantos, no rails, same tethered deal! Only
needed one panto down off the wire - immobile street ornament.
You can't compare a tram, an electric train, or a trolley bus to a BEV.
For the record, battery electric cars didn't spring up in the 60s, they
were around long before that! Around the turn of the century in fact. No
not *that* turn of the century, this one :-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_Motor_Vehicle

But that was not the first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicle

Crude electric carriages were first invented in the late 1820s
and 1830s. Practical, commercially available electric vehicles
appeared during the 1890s.

What happened with such an *early* head start?

An electric vehicle held the vehicular land speed record until
around 1900. In the early 20th century, the high cost, low top
speed, and short-range of battery electric vehicles, compared
to internal combustion engine vehicles, led to a worldwide
decline in their use as private motor vehicles. Electric
vehicles have continued to be used for loading and freight
equipment and for public transport – especially rail vehicles.

What happened? The problem was they needed to be *untethered* and carry
*all* their *stored power* with them. Back in the day that was
invariably lead acid batteries. Do I really need to explain the
limitations of lead acid batteries? To you? I would hope not. Currently
we have Li ion batteries which got us over the bogey of power, range and
charge times but they still, at intervals, need to be tethered to a
*power source*.
But you simply cannot compare a BEV of the 70s with a current BEV, no
way, no how, and you definitely cannot compare a current BEV with a *tram*.
Li ion batteries are not without their issues however.

https://theloadstar.com/fears-for-still-burning-fremantle-highway-as-number-of-evs-aboard-is-revised/

And this isn't where it ends.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-12/firefighters-call-for-ev-crash-policy-awareness/101824468#

but this excerpt exposes the elephant in the room when it comes to Li
ion batteries.

Lithium-ion battery fires release toxins such as carbon monoxide,
hydrogen cyanide, hydrogen fluoride and cobalt. Mr McConville
said these toxins were particularly dangerous for firefighters
because they were absorbed through the skin and clothing could
not protect against them.

But it gets worse;

https://batteriesnews.com/7-battery-electric-cars-day-catch-fire-china-most-involved-brands/

Going to charge your EV in your garage?

I'm getting a warm glow when I think about tethered trams, trains and
trolley buses, a different kind of glow than that which I'd get from an
EV battery catching fire whilst charging in my garage.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 3/08/2023 2:24 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> Birthday lunch today at the fabulous Bistro Moncur at Woollahra:
>

Your birthday 03/08 ? Happy birthday if so same day as me :-)

> https://www.bistromoncur.com.au/
>
> A bit exciting for the missus. Sam Neil was sitting near the front of
> the place.
>
> Anyway, she talked me out of driving, as parking is a bitch in
> Woollahra, so we caught the train to Central and hopped on a bus to
> Woollahra. Weird bus. Smooth as butter and quiet as an angel's fart. Air
> conditioning and all the mod cons, it was just like a regular bus but
> WAY better. So, when I got out, I checked it out more closely. Yep. An
> electric bus. Cool. On the way back, I was jolted back into real life in
> a regular Diesel bus. Jerky gear changes and noisy as fuck.
>
> Standing outside the restaurant, I spotted a truck delivering Jack
> Daniels to the pub next door. An electric truck! How about that? I guess
> it was about a 3 ~ 4 Tonne truck too. Not a teeny delivery van.
>
> Great day. I don't feel much like dinner tonight.
>
>

As long as you enjoyed it that's all that matters!

--
In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
proven liar."

On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."

On 4/08/2023 1:30 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 3/08/2023 2:24 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> Birthday lunch today at the fabulous Bistro Moncur at Woollahra:
>>
>
> Your birthday 03/08 ? Happy birthday if so same day as me :-)

**Not quite. My birthday falls on the 4th.

>
>
>> https://www.bistromoncur.com.au/
>>
>> A bit exciting for the missus. Sam Neil was sitting near the front of
>> the place.
>>
>> Anyway, she talked me out of driving, as parking is a bitch in
>> Woollahra, so we caught the train to Central and hopped on a bus to
>> Woollahra. Weird bus. Smooth as butter and quiet as an angel's fart.
>> Air conditioning and all the mod cons, it was just like a regular bus
>> but WAY better. So, when I got out, I checked it out more closely.
>> Yep. An electric bus. Cool. On the way back, I was jolted back into
>> real life in a regular Diesel bus. Jerky gear changes and noisy as fuck.
>>
>> Standing outside the restaurant, I spotted a truck delivering Jack
>> Daniels to the pub next door. An electric truck! How about that? I
>> guess it was about a 3 ~ 4 Tonne truck too. Not a teeny delivery van.
>>
>> Great day. I don't feel much like dinner tonight.
>>
>>
>
> As long as you enjoyed it that's all that matters!

**Pre-zactly.

--
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On 3/08/2023 9:31 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 3/8/2023 7:15 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 03-Aug-23 4:24 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> Birthday lunch today at the fabulous Bistro Moncur at Woollahra:
>>>
>>> https://www.bistromoncur.com.au/
>>>
>>> A bit exciting for the missus. Sam Neil was sitting near the front of
>>> the place.
>>>
>>> Anyway, she talked me out of driving, as parking is a bitch in
>>> Woollahra, so we caught the train to Central and hopped on a bus to
>>> Woollahra. Weird bus. Smooth as butter and quiet as an angel's fart.
>>> Air conditioning and all the mod cons, it was just like a regular bus
>>> but WAY better. So, when I got out, I checked it out more closely.
>>> Yep. An electric bus. Cool. On the way back, I was jolted back into
>>> real life in a regular Diesel bus. Jerky gear changes and noisy as fuck.
>>>
>>> Standing outside the restaurant, I spotted a truck delivering Jack
>>> Daniels to the pub next door. An electric truck! How about that? I
>>> guess it was about a 3 ~ 4 Tonne truck too. Not a teeny delivery van.
>>>
>>> Great day. I don't feel much like dinner tonight.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> When I was a child living in London, there were deliveries of milk
>> made to the door each day. The vehicles used to do this were electric.
>> Mind you, they weren't that fast, but given that almost everyone got
>> their milk this way, they didn't need to be.
>>
>
> Nothing new about electric vehicles, first time I drove an electric car
> was in the mid 70's, the tech has come a long way since then with much
> more power and range but the basics are still the same.
> Melbourne has had electric public transport vehicles that are fast and
> quiet since well before I was born, we call them trams:-)
>

**I've travelled on Melbourne trams many time (including the restaurant
one). There is no comparison to the electric bus I rode in last week.
The bus was WAY better, faster (accelerating), quieter (the air
conditioning was the noisiest thing about the bus), more comfortable and
SMOOTH. If this is what buses will be in the future, I will be happy to
ride in them.

--
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www.avast.com

On 7/8/2023 1:45 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 3/08/2023 9:31 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 3/8/2023 7:15 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>> On 03-Aug-23 4:24 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> Birthday lunch today at the fabulous Bistro Moncur at Woollahra:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.bistromoncur.com.au/
>>>>
>>>> A bit exciting for the missus. Sam Neil was sitting near the front
>>>> of the place.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, she talked me out of driving, as parking is a bitch in
>>>> Woollahra, so we caught the train to Central and hopped on a bus to
>>>> Woollahra. Weird bus. Smooth as butter and quiet as an angel's fart.
>>>> Air conditioning and all the mod cons, it was just like a regular
>>>> bus but WAY better. So, when I got out, I checked it out more
>>>> closely. Yep. An electric bus. Cool. On the way back, I was jolted
>>>> back into real life in a regular Diesel bus. Jerky gear changes and
>>>> noisy as fuck.
>>>>
>>>> Standing outside the restaurant, I spotted a truck delivering Jack
>>>> Daniels to the pub next door. An electric truck! How about that? I
>>>> guess it was about a 3 ~ 4 Tonne truck too. Not a teeny delivery van.
>>>>
>>>> Great day. I don't feel much like dinner tonight.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> When I was a child living in London, there were deliveries of milk
>>> made to the door each day. The vehicles used to do this were
>>> electric. Mind you, they weren't that fast, but given that almost
>>> everyone got their milk this way, they didn't need to be.
>>>
>>
>> Nothing new about electric vehicles, first time I drove an electric
>> car was in the mid 70's, the tech has come a long way since then with
>> much more power and range but the basics are still the same.
>> Melbourne has had electric public transport vehicles that are fast and
>> quiet since well before I was born, we call them trams:-)
>>
>
> **I've travelled on Melbourne trams many time (including the restaurant
> one).

How long ago?
The restaurant tram is ancient and most likely older than both of us,
the newer trams are much smoother, faster and very quiet.

There is no comparison to the electric bus I rode in last week.
> The bus was WAY better, faster (accelerating), quieter (the air
> conditioning was the noisiest thing about the bus), more comfortable and
> SMOOTH. If this is what buses will be in the future, I will be happy to
> ride in them.
>
Never been on an EV bus and they would have some advantages over trams
in that they can go anywhere but a tram never needs to be charged.
Melbourne has the largest tram network in the world which covers a lot
of the city so we have had emission free public transport for a very
very long time and very likely we will still have trams when EV buses
are obsolete.

--
Daryl

On 7/8/2023 1:45 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 3/08/2023 9:31 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 3/8/2023 7:15 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>> On 03-Aug-23 4:24 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> Birthday lunch today at the fabulous Bistro Moncur at Woollahra:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.bistromoncur.com.au/
>>>>
>>>> A bit exciting for the missus. Sam Neil was sitting near the front
>>>> of the place.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, she talked me out of driving, as parking is a bitch in
>>>> Woollahra, so we caught the train to Central and hopped on a bus to
>>>> Woollahra. Weird bus. Smooth as butter and quiet as an angel's fart.
>>>> Air conditioning and all the mod cons, it was just like a regular
>>>> bus but WAY better. So, when I got out, I checked it out more
>>>> closely. Yep. An electric bus. Cool. On the way back, I was jolted
>>>> back into real life in a regular Diesel bus. Jerky gear changes and
>>>> noisy as fuck.
>>>>
>>>> Standing outside the restaurant, I spotted a truck delivering Jack
>>>> Daniels to the pub next door. An electric truck! How about that? I
>>>> guess it was about a 3 ~ 4 Tonne truck too. Not a teeny delivery van.
>>>>
>>>> Great day. I don't feel much like dinner tonight.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> When I was a child living in London, there were deliveries of milk
>>> made to the door each day. The vehicles used to do this were
>>> electric. Mind you, they weren't that fast, but given that almost
>>> everyone got their milk this way, they didn't need to be.
>>>
>>
>> Nothing new about electric vehicles, first time I drove an electric
>> car was in the mid 70's, the tech has come a long way since then with
>> much more power and range but the basics are still the same.
>> Melbourne has had electric public transport vehicles that are fast and
>> quiet since well before I was born, we call them trams:-)
>>
>
> **I've travelled on Melbourne trams many time (including the restaurant
> one). There is no comparison to the electric bus I rode in last week.

Well, no, the trams run on rails hence tend to be noisier. That said,
more recent trams are very quiet in comparison.

> The bus was WAY better, faster (accelerating), quieter (the air

You haven't experienced a modern tram under full acceleration then.

> conditioning was the noisiest thing about the bus), more comfortable and
> SMOOTH. If this is what buses will be in the future, I will be happy to
> ride in them.
>
If you live long enough you may not get a choice.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 7/8/2023 3:20 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 7/8/2023 1:45 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 3/08/2023 9:31 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 3/8/2023 7:15 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 03-Aug-23 4:24 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> Birthday lunch today at the fabulous Bistro Moncur at Woollahra:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.bistromoncur.com.au/
>>>>>
>>>>> A bit exciting for the missus. Sam Neil was sitting near the front
>>>>> of the place.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, she talked me out of driving, as parking is a bitch in
>>>>> Woollahra, so we caught the train to Central and hopped on a bus to
>>>>> Woollahra. Weird bus. Smooth as butter and quiet as an angel's
>>>>> fart. Air conditioning and all the mod cons, it was just like a
>>>>> regular bus but WAY better. So, when I got out, I checked it out
>>>>> more closely. Yep. An electric bus. Cool. On the way back, I was
>>>>> jolted back into real life in a regular Diesel bus. Jerky gear
>>>>> changes and noisy as fuck.
>>>>>
>>>>> Standing outside the restaurant, I spotted a truck delivering Jack
>>>>> Daniels to the pub next door. An electric truck! How about that? I
>>>>> guess it was about a 3 ~ 4 Tonne truck too. Not a teeny delivery van.
>>>>>
>>>>> Great day. I don't feel much like dinner tonight.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When I was a child living in London, there were deliveries of milk
>>>> made to the door each day. The vehicles used to do this were
>>>> electric. Mind you, they weren't that fast, but given that almost
>>>> everyone got their milk this way, they didn't need to be.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nothing new about electric vehicles, first time I drove an electric
>>> car was in the mid 70's, the tech has come a long way since then with
>>> much more power and range but the basics are still the same.
>>> Melbourne has had electric public transport vehicles that are fast
>>> and quiet since well before I was born, we call them trams:-)
>>>
>>
>> **I've travelled on Melbourne trams many time (including the
>> restaurant one).
>
> How long ago?
> The restaurant tram is ancient and most likely older than both of us,
> the newer trams are much smoother, faster and very quiet.
>
> There is no comparison to the electric bus I rode in last week.
>> The bus was WAY better, faster (accelerating), quieter (the air
>> conditioning was the noisiest thing about the bus), more comfortable
>> and SMOOTH. If this is what buses will be in the future, I will be
>> happy to ride in them.
>>
> Never been on an EV bus and they would have some advantages over trams
> in that they can go anywhere but a tram never needs to be charged.
> Melbourne has the largest tram network in the world which covers a lot
> of the city so we have had emission free public transport for a very

Emission free public transport? You must be joking! Been to the Latrobe
Valley lately? All the tram network has done is move the emissions
problem *out of the city*. But then, the tram network is not
all-encompassing so dirty old diesel buses fill out the network - and
those diesel buses aren't limited to the outer urban area. They spew
their shit out in the CBD as well.

> very long time and very likely we will still have trams when EV buses
> are obsolete.

Sounds like you will be (are) obsolete.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/melbourne-s-next-generation-trams-could-be-trackless-with-rubber-wheels-20210422-p57ldr.html

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 7/08/2023 1:45 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 3/08/2023 9:31 pm, Daryl wrote:

>> Nothing new about electric vehicles, first time I drove an electric
>> car was in the mid 70's, the tech has come a long way since then with
>> much more power and range but the basics are still the same.
>> Melbourne has had electric public transport vehicles that are fast and
>> quiet since well before I was born, we call them trams:-)
>>
>
> **I've travelled on Melbourne trams many time (including the restaurant
> one). There is no comparison to the electric bus I rode in last week.
> The bus was WAY better, faster (accelerating), quieter (the air
> conditioning was the noisiest thing about the bus), more comfortable and
> SMOOTH. If this is what buses will be in the future, I will be happy to
> ride in them.

Bot really fair in comparing a modern electric bus to the Restaurant
tram, as that was World War 2 vintage :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 7/08/2023 3:20 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 7/8/2023 1:45 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:

> There is no comparison to the electric bus I rode in last week.
>> The bus was WAY better, faster (accelerating), quieter (the air
>> conditioning was the noisiest thing about the bus), more comfortable
>> and SMOOTH. If this is what buses will be in the future, I will be
>> happy to ride in them.
>>
> Never been on an EV bus and they would have some advantages over trams
> in that they can go anywhere but a tram never needs to be charged.
> Melbourne has the largest tram network in the world which covers a lot
> of the city so we have had emission free public transport for a very
> very long time and very likely we will still have trams when EV buses
> are obsolete.

Probably, and the network is continually expanding and the fleet being
updated. Some of the newer models look pretty smooth. I'm off to the
Paul McCartney concert in October and was thinking of using public
transport to get to the stadium, so I might get to find out just exactly
how smooth and quiet they really are.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 7/08/2023 3:20 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 7/8/2023 1:45 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 3/08/2023 9:31 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 3/8/2023 7:15 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 03-Aug-23 4:24 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> Birthday lunch today at the fabulous Bistro Moncur at Woollahra:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.bistromoncur.com.au/
>>>>>
>>>>> A bit exciting for the missus. Sam Neil was sitting near the front
>>>>> of the place.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, she talked me out of driving, as parking is a bitch in
>>>>> Woollahra, so we caught the train to Central and hopped on a bus to
>>>>> Woollahra. Weird bus. Smooth as butter and quiet as an angel's
>>>>> fart. Air conditioning and all the mod cons, it was just like a
>>>>> regular bus but WAY better. So, when I got out, I checked it out
>>>>> more closely. Yep. An electric bus. Cool. On the way back, I was
>>>>> jolted back into real life in a regular Diesel bus. Jerky gear
>>>>> changes and noisy as fuck.
>>>>>
>>>>> Standing outside the restaurant, I spotted a truck delivering Jack
>>>>> Daniels to the pub next door. An electric truck! How about that? I
>>>>> guess it was about a 3 ~ 4 Tonne truck too. Not a teeny delivery van.
>>>>>
>>>>> Great day. I don't feel much like dinner tonight.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When I was a child living in London, there were deliveries of milk
>>>> made to the door each day. The vehicles used to do this were
>>>> electric. Mind you, they weren't that fast, but given that almost
>>>> everyone got their milk this way, they didn't need to be.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nothing new about electric vehicles, first time I drove an electric
>>> car was in the mid 70's, the tech has come a long way since then with
>>> much more power and range but the basics are still the same.
>>> Melbourne has had electric public transport vehicles that are fast
>>> and quiet since well before I was born, we call them trams:-)
>>>
>>
>> **I've travelled on Melbourne trams many time (including the
>> restaurant one).
>
> How long ago?

**In Melbourne? 20 years ago. In Sydney? Last year. In Newcastle? Last
year. Newcastle's trams are very interesting. They are battery operated.
Good that both systems are ( no doubt as good as Melbourne's trams), the
electric bus was better.

> The restaurant tram is ancient and most likely older than both of us,
> the newer trams are much smoother, faster and very quiet.

**I'm am confident that they are as good as Sydney's and Newcastle's new
trams.

>
> There is no comparison to the electric bus I rode in last week.
>> The bus was WAY better, faster (accelerating), quieter (the air
>> conditioning was the noisiest thing about the bus), more comfortable
>> and SMOOTH. If this is what buses will be in the future, I will be
>> happy to ride in them.
>>
> Never been on an EV bus and they would have some advantages over trams
> in that they can go anywhere but a tram never needs to be charged.
> Melbourne has the largest tram network in the world which covers a lot
> of the city so we have had emission free public transport for a very
> very long time and very likely we will still have trams when EV buses
> are obsolete.

**You hit the nail on the head, when you acknowledged that electric
buses are not confined to tracks. That fact will kill off trams.

--
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On 8/08/2023 5:21 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 7/08/2023 3:20 pm, Daryl wrote:

>> Never been on an EV bus and they would have some advantages over trams
>> in that they can go anywhere but a tram never needs to be charged.
>> Melbourne has the largest tram network in the world which covers a lot
>> of the city so we have had emission free public transport for a very
>> very long time and very likely we will still have trams when EV buses
>> are obsolete.
>
> **You hit the nail on the head, when you acknowledged that electric
> buses are not confined to tracks. That fact will kill off trams.

ROTFL :)

I doubt it. Sydney made the decision to kill off it's tram fleet decades
ago and have regretted it ever since. Trams in Melbourne work very well,
and given that it's the largest tram network in the world and
continually being expanded it's highly unlikely that it will ever be got
rid of.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On Tue, 08 Aug 2023 07:38:56 +1000, Noddy wrote:

> On 8/08/2023 5:21 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 7/08/2023 3:20 pm, Daryl wrote:
>
>>> Never been on an EV bus and they would have some advantages over trams
>>> in that they can go anywhere but a tram never needs to be charged.
>>> Melbourne has the largest tram network in the world which covers a lot
>>> of the city so we have had emission free public transport for a very
>>> very long time and very likely we will still have trams when EV buses
>>> are obsolete.
>>
>> **You hit the nail on the head, when you acknowledged that electric
>> buses are not confined to tracks. That fact will kill off trams.
>
> ROTFL :)
>
> I doubt it. Sydney made the decision to kill off it's tram fleet decades
> ago and have regretted it ever since.

That's bullshit. Imagine the Sinney traffic if they still had trams taking
up half the road.

> Trams in Melbourne work very well,
> and given that it's the largest tram network in the world and
> continually being expanded it's highly unlikely that it will ever be got
> rid of.

An enquiring mind would wonder *why* Melburg has "the largest tram network
in the world...". Shirley it can't be because they love all those overhead
cables...

alvey

On 8/8/2023 5:21 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 7/08/2023 3:20 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 7/8/2023 1:45 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 3/08/2023 9:31 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 3/8/2023 7:15 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>> On 03-Aug-23 4:24 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> Birthday lunch today at the fabulous Bistro Moncur at Woollahra:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.bistromoncur.com.au/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A bit exciting for the missus. Sam Neil was sitting near the front
>>>>>> of the place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, she talked me out of driving, as parking is a bitch in
>>>>>> Woollahra, so we caught the train to Central and hopped on a bus
>>>>>> to Woollahra. Weird bus. Smooth as butter and quiet as an angel's
>>>>>> fart. Air conditioning and all the mod cons, it was just like a
>>>>>> regular bus but WAY better. So, when I got out, I checked it out
>>>>>> more closely. Yep. An electric bus. Cool. On the way back, I was
>>>>>> jolted back into real life in a regular Diesel bus. Jerky gear
>>>>>> changes and noisy as fuck.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Standing outside the restaurant, I spotted a truck delivering Jack
>>>>>> Daniels to the pub next door. An electric truck! How about that? I
>>>>>> guess it was about a 3 ~ 4 Tonne truck too. Not a teeny delivery van.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Great day. I don't feel much like dinner tonight.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When I was a child living in London, there were deliveries of milk
>>>>> made to the door each day. The vehicles used to do this were
>>>>> electric. Mind you, they weren't that fast, but given that almost
>>>>> everyone got their milk this way, they didn't need to be.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nothing new about electric vehicles, first time I drove an electric
>>>> car was in the mid 70's, the tech has come a long way since then
>>>> with much more power and range but the basics are still the same.
>>>> Melbourne has had electric public transport vehicles that are fast
>>>> and quiet since well before I was born, we call them trams:-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> **I've travelled on Melbourne trams many time (including the
>>> restaurant one).
>>
>> How long ago?
>
> **In Melbourne? 20 years ago. In Sydney? Last year. In Newcastle? Last
> year. Newcastle's trams are very interesting. They are battery operated.
> Good that both systems are ( no doubt as good as Melbourne's trams), the
> electric bus was better.
>
>> The restaurant tram is ancient and most likely older than both of us,
>> the newer trams are much smoother, faster and very quiet.
>
> **I'm am confident that they are as good as Sydney's and Newcastle's new
> trams.
>
>>
>> There is no comparison to the electric bus I rode in last week.
>>> The bus was WAY better, faster (accelerating), quieter (the air
>>> conditioning was the noisiest thing about the bus), more comfortable
>>> and SMOOTH. If this is what buses will be in the future, I will be
>>> happy to ride in them.
>>>
>> Never been on an EV bus and they would have some advantages over trams
>> in that they can go anywhere but a tram never needs to be charged.
>> Melbourne has the largest tram network in the world which covers a lot
>> of the city so we have had emission free public transport for a very
>> very long time and very likely we will still have trams when EV buses
>> are obsolete.
>
> **You hit the nail on the head, when you acknowledged that electric
> buses are not confined to tracks. That fact will kill off trams.
>
>
Maybe in other places but zero chance in Melbourne, the infrastructure
has been in place for a very long time and it all works very well so it
would be crazy to remove it.
--
Daryl

On 8/08/2023 8:20 am, alvey wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Aug 2023 07:38:56 +1000, Noddy wrote:
>
>> On 8/08/2023 5:21 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 7/08/2023 3:20 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>
>>>> Never been on an EV bus and they would have some advantages over trams
>>>> in that they can go anywhere but a tram never needs to be charged.
>>>> Melbourne has the largest tram network in the world which covers a lot
>>>> of the city so we have had emission free public transport for a very
>>>> very long time and very likely we will still have trams when EV buses
>>>> are obsolete.
>>>
>>> **You hit the nail on the head, when you acknowledged that electric
>>> buses are not confined to tracks. That fact will kill off trams.
>>
>> ROTFL :)
>>
>> I doubt it. Sydney made the decision to kill off it's tram fleet decades
>> ago and have regretted it ever since.
>
> That's bullshit. Imagine the Sinney traffic if they still had trams taking
> up half the road.

Been down George Street lately?

>> Trams in Melbourne work very well,
>> and given that it's the largest tram network in the world and
>> continually being expanded it's highly unlikely that it will ever be got
>> rid of.
>
> An enquiring mind would wonder *why* Melburg has "the largest tram network
> in the world...". Shirley it can't be because they love all those overhead
> cables...
>
>
>
> alvey
>

On 8/08/2023 2:20 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 8/08/2023 8:20 am, alvey wrote:
>> On Tue, 08 Aug 2023 07:38:56 +1000, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/08/2023 5:21 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 7/08/2023 3:20 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Never been on an EV bus and they would have some advantages over trams
>>>>> in that they can go anywhere but a tram never needs to be charged.
>>>>> Melbourne has the largest tram network in the world which covers a lot
>>>>> of the city so we have had emission free public transport for a very
>>>>> very long time and very likely we will still have trams when EV buses
>>>>> are obsolete.
>>>>
>>>> **You hit the nail on the head, when you acknowledged that electric
>>>> buses are not confined to tracks. That fact will kill off trams.
>>>
>>> ROTFL :)
>>>
>>> I doubt it. Sydney made the decision to kill off it's tram fleet decades
>>> ago and have regretted it ever since.
>>
>> That's bullshit. Imagine the Sinney traffic if they still had trams
>> taking
>> up half the road.
>
> Been down George Street lately?
>

**I have. Hardly any cars or trucks. It's brilliant. However, unlike
Melbourne, our trams don't really have to co-exist with cars and trucks
(for the most part). None of those insane hook turns, for instance.
Personally, I prefer the Newcastle trams. No overhead wiring. Battery
driven, with charging at each stop. Very cool system.

--
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On 8/08/2023 12:53 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 8/8/2023 5:21 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 7/08/2023 3:20 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 7/8/2023 1:45 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 3/08/2023 9:31 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>> On 3/8/2023 7:15 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>> On 03-Aug-23 4:24 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>> Birthday lunch today at the fabulous Bistro Moncur at Woollahra:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.bistromoncur.com.au/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A bit exciting for the missus. Sam Neil was sitting near the
>>>>>>> front of the place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, she talked me out of driving, as parking is a bitch in
>>>>>>> Woollahra, so we caught the train to Central and hopped on a bus
>>>>>>> to Woollahra. Weird bus. Smooth as butter and quiet as an angel's
>>>>>>> fart. Air conditioning and all the mod cons, it was just like a
>>>>>>> regular bus but WAY better. So, when I got out, I checked it out
>>>>>>> more closely. Yep. An electric bus. Cool. On the way back, I was
>>>>>>> jolted back into real life in a regular Diesel bus. Jerky gear
>>>>>>> changes and noisy as fuck.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Standing outside the restaurant, I spotted a truck delivering
>>>>>>> Jack Daniels to the pub next door. An electric truck! How about
>>>>>>> that? I guess it was about a 3 ~ 4 Tonne truck too. Not a teeny
>>>>>>> delivery van.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Great day. I don't feel much like dinner tonight.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I was a child living in London, there were deliveries of milk
>>>>>> made to the door each day. The vehicles used to do this were
>>>>>> electric. Mind you, they weren't that fast, but given that almost
>>>>>> everyone got their milk this way, they didn't need to be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing new about electric vehicles, first time I drove an electric
>>>>> car was in the mid 70's, the tech has come a long way since then
>>>>> with much more power and range but the basics are still the same.
>>>>> Melbourne has had electric public transport vehicles that are fast
>>>>> and quiet since well before I was born, we call them trams:-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **I've travelled on Melbourne trams many time (including the
>>>> restaurant one).
>>>
>>> How long ago?
>>
>> **In Melbourne? 20 years ago. In Sydney? Last year. In Newcastle? Last
>> year. Newcastle's trams are very interesting. They are battery
>> operated. Good that both systems are ( no doubt as good as Melbourne's
>> trams), the electric bus was better.
>>
>>> The restaurant tram is ancient and most likely older than both of us,
>>> the newer trams are much smoother, faster and very quiet.
>>
>> **I'm am confident that they are as good as Sydney's and Newcastle's
>> new trams.
>>
>>>
>>> There is no comparison to the electric bus I rode in last week.
>>>> The bus was WAY better, faster (accelerating), quieter (the air
>>>> conditioning was the noisiest thing about the bus), more comfortable
>>>> and SMOOTH. If this is what buses will be in the future, I will be
>>>> happy to ride in them.
>>>>
>>> Never been on an EV bus and they would have some advantages over
>>> trams in that they can go anywhere but a tram never needs to be charged.
>>> Melbourne has the largest tram network in the world which covers a
>>> lot of the city so we have had emission free public transport for a
>>> very very long time and very likely we will still have trams when EV
>>> buses are obsolete.
>>
>> **You hit the nail on the head, when you acknowledged that electric
>> buses are not confined to tracks. That fact will kill off trams.
>>
>>
> Maybe in other places but zero chance in Melbourne, the infrastructure
> has been in place for a very long time and it all works very well so it
> would be crazy to remove it.

**In the short term, it will remain. Don't count on it remaining for
another (say) 20 years though. More modern, battery systems, like the
one in Newcastle, are showing enormous promise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_Light_Rail

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On 8/8/2023 12:53 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 8/8/2023 5:21 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 7/08/2023 3:20 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 7/8/2023 1:45 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 3/08/2023 9:31 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>> On 3/8/2023 7:15 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>> On 03-Aug-23 4:24 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>> Birthday lunch today at the fabulous Bistro Moncur at Woollahra:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.bistromoncur.com.au/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A bit exciting for the missus. Sam Neil was sitting near the
>>>>>>> front of the place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, she talked me out of driving, as parking is a bitch in
>>>>>>> Woollahra, so we caught the train to Central and hopped on a bus
>>>>>>> to Woollahra. Weird bus. Smooth as butter and quiet as an angel's
>>>>>>> fart. Air conditioning and all the mod cons, it was just like a
>>>>>>> regular bus but WAY better. So, when I got out, I checked it out
>>>>>>> more closely. Yep. An electric bus. Cool. On the way back, I was
>>>>>>> jolted back into real life in a regular Diesel bus. Jerky gear
>>>>>>> changes and noisy as fuck.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Standing outside the restaurant, I spotted a truck delivering
>>>>>>> Jack Daniels to the pub next door. An electric truck! How about
>>>>>>> that? I guess it was about a 3 ~ 4 Tonne truck too. Not a teeny
>>>>>>> delivery van.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Great day. I don't feel much like dinner tonight.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I was a child living in London, there were deliveries of milk
>>>>>> made to the door each day. The vehicles used to do this were
>>>>>> electric. Mind you, they weren't that fast, but given that almost
>>>>>> everyone got their milk this way, they didn't need to be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing new about electric vehicles, first time I drove an electric
>>>>> car was in the mid 70's, the tech has come a long way since then
>>>>> with much more power and range but the basics are still the same.
>>>>> Melbourne has had electric public transport vehicles that are fast
>>>>> and quiet since well before I was born, we call them trams:-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **I've travelled on Melbourne trams many time (including the
>>>> restaurant one).
>>>
>>> How long ago?
>>
>> **In Melbourne? 20 years ago. In Sydney? Last year. In Newcastle? Last
>> year. Newcastle's trams are very interesting. They are battery
>> operated. Good that both systems are ( no doubt as good as Melbourne's
>> trams), the electric bus was better.
>>
>>> The restaurant tram is ancient and most likely older than both of us,
>>> the newer trams are much smoother, faster and very quiet.
>>
>> **I'm am confident that they are as good as Sydney's and Newcastle's
>> new trams.
>>
>>>
>>> There is no comparison to the electric bus I rode in last week.
>>>> The bus was WAY better, faster (accelerating), quieter (the air
>>>> conditioning was the noisiest thing about the bus), more comfortable
>>>> and SMOOTH. If this is what buses will be in the future, I will be
>>>> happy to ride in them.
>>>>
>>> Never been on an EV bus and they would have some advantages over
>>> trams in that they can go anywhere but a tram never needs to be charged.
>>> Melbourne has the largest tram network in the world which covers a
>>> lot of the city so we have had emission free public transport for a
>>> very very long time and very likely we will still have trams when EV
>>> buses are obsolete.
>>
>> **You hit the nail on the head, when you acknowledged that electric
>> buses are not confined to tracks. That fact will kill off trams.
>>
>>
> Maybe in other places but zero chance in Melbourne, the infrastructure
> has been in place for a very long time and it all works very well so it
> would be crazy to remove it.

Have you watched the buses that replace trams on odd occasions? They run
*on* the tram tracks - they are mostly concreted now. A bus to replace
some trams - or extend some lines beyond the end of the catenary wires -
would both be viable options and wouldn't require ripping up the tracks.
After all, they are considering trackless trams - ie. battery buses.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 8/8/2023 2:20 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 8/08/2023 8:20 am, alvey wrote:
>> On Tue, 08 Aug 2023 07:38:56 +1000, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/08/2023 5:21 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 7/08/2023 3:20 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Never been on an EV bus and they would have some advantages over trams
>>>>> in that they can go anywhere but a tram never needs to be charged.
>>>>> Melbourne has the largest tram network in the world which covers a lot
>>>>> of the city so we have had emission free public transport for a very
>>>>> very long time and very likely we will still have trams when EV buses
>>>>> are obsolete.
>>>>
>>>> **You hit the nail on the head, when you acknowledged that electric
>>>> buses are not confined to tracks. That fact will kill off trams.
>>>
>>> ROTFL :)
>>>
>>> I doubt it. Sydney made the decision to kill off it's tram fleet decades
>>> ago and have regretted it ever since.
>>
>> That's bullshit. Imagine the Sinney traffic if they still had trams
>> taking
>> up half the road.
>
> Been down George Street lately?

Imagine Sinney (sic) traffic. I hear all is not well traffic wise own
there due to trams obstructing it.
>
>>> Trams in Melbourne work very well,
>>> and given that it's the largest tram network in the world and
>>> continually being expanded it's highly unlikely that it will ever be got
>>> rid of.
>>
>> An enquiring mind would wonder *why* Melburg has "the largest tram
>> network
>> in the world...". Shirley it can't be because they love all those
>> overhead
>> cables...
>>
>>
>>
>> alvey
>>
>

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

alvey <Paddy.O.Furniture@Coast.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Aug 2023 07:38:56 +1000, Noddy wrote:
>
>> On 8/08/2023 5:21 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 7/08/2023 3:20 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>
>>>> Never been on an EV bus and they would have some advantages over trams
>>>> in that they can go anywhere but a tram never needs to be charged.
>>>> Melbourne has the largest tram network in the world which covers a lot
>>>> of the city so we have had emission free public transport for a very
>>>> very long time and very likely we will still have trams when EV buses
>>>> are obsolete.
>>>
>>> **You hit the nail on the head, when you acknowledged that electric
>>> buses are not confined to tracks. That fact will kill off trams.
>>
>> ROTFL :)
>>
>> I doubt it. Sydney made the decision to kill off it's tram fleet decades
>> ago and have regretted it ever since.
>
> That's bullshit. Imagine the Sinney traffic if they still had trams taking
> up half the road.

A city has to be designed for and around trams. Melbourne was, Sydney was
already well established so couldn’t be. Look at the hassles Sydney is
going through trying to *reintegrate* trans back into the city - and the
city traffic. Painful!
>
>> Trams in Melbourne work very well,
>> and given that it's the largest tram network in the world and
>> continually being expanded it's highly unlikely that it will ever be got
>> rid of.

Trams in Melbourne hold up car traffic in those narrow streets designed for
an era *pre-cars*. All the new greenfield tram routes place trams in
*reservations* isolated from vehicular traffic - as they should be.
>
> An enquiring mind would wonder *why* Melburg has "the largest tram network
> in the world...". Shirley it can't be because they love all those overhead
> cables...
>
>
>
> alvey
>
>

On 8/8/2023 2:53 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 8/08/2023 12:53 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 8/8/2023 5:21 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 7/08/2023 3:20 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 7/8/2023 1:45 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 3/08/2023 9:31 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/8/2023 7:15 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>> On 03-Aug-23 4:24 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>> Birthday lunch today at the fabulous Bistro Moncur at Woollahra:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.bistromoncur.com.au/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A bit exciting for the missus. Sam Neil was sitting near the
>>>>>>>> front of the place.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, she talked me out of driving, as parking is a bitch in
>>>>>>>> Woollahra, so we caught the train to Central and hopped on a bus
>>>>>>>> to Woollahra. Weird bus. Smooth as butter and quiet as an
>>>>>>>> angel's fart. Air conditioning and all the mod cons, it was just
>>>>>>>> like a regular bus but WAY better. So, when I got out, I checked
>>>>>>>> it out more closely. Yep. An electric bus. Cool. On the way
>>>>>>>> back, I was jolted back into real life in a regular Diesel bus.
>>>>>>>> Jerky gear changes and noisy as fuck.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Standing outside the restaurant, I spotted a truck delivering
>>>>>>>> Jack Daniels to the pub next door. An electric truck! How about
>>>>>>>> that? I guess it was about a 3 ~ 4 Tonne truck too. Not a teeny
>>>>>>>> delivery van.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Great day. I don't feel much like dinner tonight.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I was a child living in London, there were deliveries of
>>>>>>> milk made to the door each day. The vehicles used to do this were
>>>>>>> electric. Mind you, they weren't that fast, but given that almost
>>>>>>> everyone got their milk this way, they didn't need to be.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nothing new about electric vehicles, first time I drove an
>>>>>> electric car was in the mid 70's, the tech has come a long way
>>>>>> since then with much more power and range but the basics are still
>>>>>> the same.
>>>>>> Melbourne has had electric public transport vehicles that are fast
>>>>>> and quiet since well before I was born, we call them trams:-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **I've travelled on Melbourne trams many time (including the
>>>>> restaurant one).
>>>>
>>>> How long ago?
>>>
>>> **In Melbourne? 20 years ago. In Sydney? Last year. In Newcastle?
>>> Last year. Newcastle's trams are very interesting. They are battery
>>> operated. Good that both systems are ( no doubt as good as
>>> Melbourne's trams), the electric bus was better.
>>>
>>>> The restaurant tram is ancient and most likely older than both of
>>>> us, the newer trams are much smoother, faster and very quiet.
>>>
>>> **I'm am confident that they are as good as Sydney's and Newcastle's
>>> new trams.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> There is no comparison to the electric bus I rode in last week.
>>>>> The bus was WAY better, faster (accelerating), quieter (the air
>>>>> conditioning was the noisiest thing about the bus), more
>>>>> comfortable and SMOOTH. If this is what buses will be in the
>>>>> future, I will be happy to ride in them.
>>>>>
>>>> Never been on an EV bus and they would have some advantages over
>>>> trams in that they can go anywhere but a tram never needs to be
>>>> charged.

You're dealing with a simpleton who thinks Melbourne trams don't need to
be *charged*. Drop the trolley pole and see how far you get with a
Melbourne tram. For sure the traction motors won't be *charged*.
Melbourne trams get *charged* from the Latrobe Valley.

>>>> Melbourne has the largest tram network in the world which covers a
>>>> lot of the city so we have had emission free public transport for a
>>>> very very long time and very likely we will still have trams when EV
>>>> buses are obsolete.
>>>
>>> **You hit the nail on the head, when you acknowledged that electric
>>> buses are not confined to tracks. That fact will kill off trams.
>>>
>>>
>> Maybe in other places but zero chance in Melbourne, the infrastructure
>> has been in place for a very long time and it all works very well so
>> it would be crazy to remove it.
>
> **In the short term, it will remain. Don't count on it remaining for
> another (say) 20 years though. More modern, battery systems, like the
> one in Newcastle, are showing enormous promise.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_Light_Rail
>

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)