https://www.drive.com.au/news/reversing-cameras-sensors-in-new-vehicles-from-2025/

Given the bonnet height of current utes, there is quite a large blind
spot in front that could easily hide a small child. Do they need a
forward camera too?

On 30/07/2023 4:59 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> https://www.drive.com.au/news/reversing-cameras-sensors-in-new-vehicles-from-2025/
>
> Given the bonnet height of current utes, there is quite a large blind
> spot in front that could easily hide a small child. Do they need a
> forward camera too?

Some already have them. My Ranger has one which automatically engages
with forward motion and turns off after you reach a certain speed. It
also doubles as a "rock crawler" camera if that's your thing.

Reverse cameras being mandatory on cars is something I've suggested for
years, as the benefits are enormous while the cost to implement are
trifling. According to Kidsafe Victoria around 7 kids on average are
killed every year and around 60 seriously injured from being backed over
in their own driveways, and for a number of years the car that caused
most of those casualties was the Holden Commodore which has quite
remarkably poor rear visibility for a family sedan.

A camera wouldn't automatically prevent those accidents from happening
as it requires an operator to actually look at the thing, but it would
have no doubt played a significant part in reducing the numbers.
Personally I'd like to see both rear view cameras combined with
autonomous front and rear braking as being mandatory on every new
vehicle as of yesterday.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 30/07/2023 5:35 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 30/07/2023 4:59 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/reversing-cameras-sensors-in-new-vehicles-from-2025/
>>
>> Given the bonnet height of current utes, there is quite a large blind
>> spot in front that could easily hide a small child. Do they need a
>> forward camera too?
>
> Some already have them. My Ranger has one which automatically engages
> with forward motion and turns off after you reach a certain speed. It
> also doubles as a "rock crawler" camera if that's your thing.
>
> Reverse cameras being mandatory on cars is something I've suggested for
> years, as the benefits are enormous while the cost to implement are
> trifling. According to Kidsafe Victoria around 7 kids on average are
> killed every year and around 60 seriously injured from being backed over
> in their own driveways, and for a number of years the car that caused
> most of those casualties was the Holden Commodore which has quite
> remarkably poor rear visibility for a family sedan.
>
> A camera wouldn't automatically prevent those accidents from happening
> as it requires an operator to actually look at the thing, but it would
> have no doubt played a significant part in reducing the numbers.
> Personally I'd like to see both rear view cameras combined with
> autonomous front and rear braking as being mandatory on every new
> vehicle as of yesterday.
>
I have wondered exactly what is under the bonnet that needs so much
room. I went to the 2013 New York motor show, I stood in front of a yank
ute, the bonnet came up to my nipples, and I though at least we are
still sane in Australia. Ten years on and here we are :(

On 30/07/2023 10:26 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 30/07/2023 5:35 pm, Noddy wrote:

>> A camera wouldn't automatically prevent those accidents from happening
>> as it requires an operator to actually look at the thing, but it would
>> have no doubt played a significant part in reducing the numbers.
>> Personally I'd like to see both rear view cameras combined with
>> autonomous front and rear braking as being mandatory on every new
>> vehicle as of yesterday.
>>
> I have wondered exactly what is under the bonnet that needs so much
> room. I went to the 2013 New York motor show, I stood in front of a yank
> ute, the bonnet came up to my nipples, and I though at least we are
> still sane in Australia. Ten years on and here we are :(

Well, we're not that bad here. At least not yet. Not with the "local"
utes that are nothing like the big yank monsters.

The engine in my ute is nothing out of the ordinary in terms of physical
dimensions. In fact it's the same engine that was fitted to some Ford
Territory's, but just a later variant of it. It doesn't take up lots of
room, and the vehicle itself isn't excessively high. It is, however, a
4WD, and as such has a reasonably high suspension clearance. Still, in
having said that it's not any higher than vehicles of years gone by.

Here's a comparison shot of it next to my old F-100:

> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEN4T7Y

On level ground the old Effy is actually a couple inches taller, and I
expect it will be moreso as time goes by and the Ranger's suspension
settles a bit.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 16:59:00 +1000, Keithr0 wrote:

> https://www.drive.com.au/news/reversing-cameras-sensors-in-new-vehicles-
from-2025/
>
> Given the bonnet height of current utes, there is quite a large blind
> spot in front that could easily hide a small child. Do they need a
> forward camera too?

I'd vote yes. And audio proximity alarms, fully autonomous braking and
something to inflict pain on the driver.

alvey

On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 17:35:08 +1000, Noddy wrote:

> Reverse cameras being mandatory on cars is something I've suggested for
> years, as the benefits are enormous while the cost to implement are
> trifling. According to Kidsafe Victoria around 7 kids on average are
> killed every year and around 60 seriously injured from being backed over
> in their own driveways, and for a number of years the car that caused
> most of those casualties was the Holden Commodore which has quite
> remarkably poor rear visibility for a family sedan.

Of course a reasonable person could conlude that the Commode caused "most
of those casualties" because it was the most popular car on the road.

On 30/07/2023 3:35 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 30/07/2023 4:59 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/reversing-cameras-sensors-in-new-vehicles-from-2025/
>>
>>
>> Given the bonnet height of current utes, there is quite a large blind
>> spot in front that could easily hide a small child. Do they need a
>> forward camera too?
>
> Some already have them. My Ranger has one which automatically engages
> with forward motion and turns off after you reach a certain speed. It
> also doubles as a "rock crawler" camera if that's your thing.
>
> Reverse cameras being mandatory on cars is something I've suggested for
> years,

Putting a seat belt on the child you are supposed to care about is
mandated in law, so why don't you start there before you start preaching
- because that is on *you*.

Any decent father would.

--
In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
proven liar."

On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."

On 30/07/2023 4:59 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> https://www.drive.com.au/news/reversing-cameras-sensors-in-new-vehicles-from-2025/
>
> Given the bonnet height of current utes, there is quite a large blind
> spot in front that could easily hide a small child. Do they need a
> forward camera too?

**Absolutely. My MY18 Levvorg came with a rear camera, several forward
facing cameras and a side camera. Fantastic for parking. However,
cameras are only as good as the driver. A few weeks after I purchased
the Levorg, I was parked at the local garden centre (front in). I came
back to find a monster truck (Toyota Landcruiser) parked on the driver's
side. Naturally, my view to the right was completely obscured. I put the
car in reverse, checked the mirrors, checked the rear view TV screen.
Nothing. I began reversing when all Hell broke loose. There was a VERY
urgent beeping from the dash and the side mirror lights began flashing.
I stomped on the brakes. Then, from the right side, two little kids
(maybe 3 ~ 4 years old) ran across the path of my car. Rear Crossing
Alert (RCA) is what Subaru calls it and I reckon it is fucking
brilliant. It senses stuff that is well beyond the vision of the driver
and cameras. I understand that some newer iterations of the system also
automatically apply the brakes.

IMO, RCA will become mandatory on ALL vehicles in the near future. It's
cheap and would save lives.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 31/07/2023 12:17 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 30/07/2023 4:59 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/reversing-cameras-sensors-in-new-vehicles-from-2025/
>>
>>
>> Given the bonnet height of current utes, there is quite a large blind
>> spot in front that could easily hide a small child. Do they need a
>> forward camera too?
>
> **Absolutely. My MY18 Levvorg came with a rear camera, several forward
> facing cameras and a side camera. Fantastic for parking. However,
> cameras are only as good as the driver. A few weeks after I purchased
> the Levorg, I was parked at the local garden centre (front in). I came
> back to find a monster truck (Toyota Landcruiser) parked on the driver's
> side. Naturally, my view to the right was completely obscured. I put the
> car in reverse, checked the mirrors, checked the rear view TV screen.
> Nothing. I began reversing when all Hell broke loose. There was a VERY
> urgent beeping from the dash and the side mirror lights began flashing.
> I stomped on the brakes. Then, from the right side, two little kids
> (maybe 3 ~ 4 years old) ran across the path of my car. Rear Crossing
> Alert (RCA) is what Subaru calls it and I reckon it is fucking
> brilliant. It senses stuff that is well beyond the vision of the driver
> and cameras. I understand that some newer iterations of the system also
> automatically apply the brakes.
>
> IMO, RCA will become mandatory on ALL vehicles in the near future. It's
> cheap and would save lives.
>

Undoubtedly, especially with the amount of useless parenting these days.

--
In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
proven liar."

On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."

On 31/07/2023 2:17 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 30/07/2023 4:59 pm, Keithr0 wrote:

>
> **Absolutely. My MY18 Levvorg came with a rear camera, several forward
> facing cameras and a side camera. Fantastic for parking. However,
> cameras are only as good as the driver. A few weeks after I purchased
> the Levorg, I was parked at the local garden centre (front in). I came
> back to find a monster truck (Toyota Landcruiser) parked on the driver's
> side. Naturally, my view to the right was completely obscured. I put the
> car in reverse, checked the mirrors, checked the rear view TV screen.
> Nothing. I began reversing when all Hell broke loose. There was a VERY
> urgent beeping from the dash and the side mirror lights began flashing.
> I stomped on the brakes. Then, from the right side, two little kids
> (maybe 3 ~ 4 years old) ran across the path of my car. Rear Crossing
> Alert (RCA) is what Subaru calls it and I reckon it is fucking
> brilliant. It senses stuff that is well beyond the vision of the driver
> and cameras. I understand that some newer iterations of the system also
> automatically apply the brakes.

Yes they will, and by & large they do a decent job, but it's far from a
new idea. Autonomous rear braking has been around for a while. Our Santa
Fe has it and it's coming up to 5 years old now. The Ranger has it also,
and it's interesting to see the differences in operation between the
two. The Santa Fe is somewhat more "refined" in that it has less false
triggers. The Ranger by comparison is somewhat more aggressive in it's
detection of objects that need to be avoided when moving in reverse, and
to the point where if you're backing into a parking bay a little too
quickly for it's liking it will get "spooked" by the kerb and slam the
brakes on while setting off every light and buzzer it can find.

I believe the sensitivity can be adjusted and at the moment it's in it's
default setting, but when it works it certainly lets you know about it.

> IMO, RCA will become mandatory on ALL vehicles in the near future. It's
> cheap and would save lives.

It should have been mandatory 5 years ago.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 31/07/2023 3:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 31/07/2023 2:17 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 30/07/2023 4:59 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>
>>
>> **Absolutely. My MY18 Levvorg came with a rear camera, several forward
>> facing cameras and a side camera. Fantastic for parking. However,
>> cameras are only as good as the driver. A few weeks after I purchased
>> the Levorg, I was parked at the local garden centre (front in). I came
>> back to find a monster truck (Toyota Landcruiser) parked on the
>> driver's side. Naturally, my view to the right was completely
>> obscured. I put the car in reverse, checked the mirrors, checked the
>> rear view TV screen. Nothing. I began reversing when all Hell broke
>> loose. There was a VERY urgent beeping from the dash and the side
>> mirror lights began flashing. I stomped on the brakes. Then, from the
>> right side, two little kids (maybe 3 ~ 4 years old) ran across the
>> path of my car. Rear Crossing Alert (RCA) is what Subaru calls it and
>> I reckon it is fucking brilliant. It senses stuff that is well beyond
>> the vision of the driver and cameras. I understand that some newer
>> iterations of the system also automatically apply the brakes.
>
> Yes they will, and by & large they do a decent job, but it's far from a
> new idea. Autonomous rear braking has been around for a while. Our Santa
> Fe has it and it's coming up to 5 years old now. The Ranger has it also,
> and it's interesting to see the differences in operation between the
> two. The Santa Fe is somewhat more "refined" in that it has less false
> triggers. The Ranger by comparison is somewhat more aggressive in it's
> detection of objects that need to be avoided when moving in reverse, and
> to the point where if you're backing into a parking bay a little too
> quickly for it's liking it will get "spooked" by the kerb and slam the
> brakes on while setting off every light and buzzer it can find.
>
> I believe the sensitivity can be adjusted and at the moment it's in it's
> default setting, but when it works it certainly lets you know about it.
>
>> IMO, RCA will become mandatory on ALL vehicles in the near future.
>> It's cheap and would save lives.
>
> It should have been mandatory 5 years ago.
>

**Well, my MY18 Levorg is 6 years old in September (purchased in
Spetmeber 2017), so yeah. At least. Dunno when Subaru first incorporated
it into their cars. Many cars still lack the facility.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 31/07/2023 3:35 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 31/07/2023 3:20 pm, Noddy wrote:

>>> IMO, RCA will become mandatory on ALL vehicles in the near future.
>>> It's cheap and would save lives.
>>
>> It should have been mandatory 5 years ago.
>>
>
> **Well, my MY18 Levorg is 6 years old in September (purchased in
> Spetmeber 2017), so yeah. At least. Dunno when Subaru first incorporated
> it into their cars. Many cars still lack the facility.

I couldn't tell you the number of vehicles that don't have it these
days, but I would suggest that it's becoming more common and there are
probably more with it than not. Things like poverty pack Corollas and
other bare bones base models are most likely the ones that don't have
it, although I suspect they won't be able to get away with not providing
it for much longer.

If I remember correctly AEB has been declared as mandatory on all new
cars sold in this country by 2023 or 2025 (I can't remember which), and
it won't be difficult to extend that to include reverse AEB. I also
believe that new ANCAP testing will include reverse AEB results as part
of their overall rankings, and cars not so equipped will no doubt rate
poorly compared to those that are.

It's appalling to think that we need rules to force manufacturers to
supply vehicles with such hardware when you consider the relatively low
cost per vehicle to have it implemented versus the massive benefit it
can provide, but that's how the world rolls. It's all about the dollar,
and how much the manufacturers can get away with not having to spend.

It was only just before Covid that I remember seeing a press conference
on the nightly news where the CEO of Mazda Australia who was at a
function to talk about something else stood up at a press conference and
criticised reverse cameras as not being the useful technology some
people thought they were, after a few journalists criticised Mazda as
being one of the few companies who supplied vehicles without them as an
option :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 31/7/2023 4:51 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 31/07/2023 3:35 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 31/07/2023 3:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>>> IMO, RCA will become mandatory on ALL vehicles in the near future.
>>>> It's cheap and would save lives.
>>>
>>> It should have been mandatory 5 years ago.
>>>
>>
>> **Well, my MY18 Levorg is 6 years old in September (purchased in
>> Spetmeber 2017), so yeah. At least. Dunno when Subaru first
>> incorporated it into their cars. Many cars still lack the facility.
>
> I couldn't tell you the number of vehicles that don't have it these
> days, but I would suggest that it's becoming more common and there are
> probably more with it than not. Things like poverty pack Corollas and
> other bare bones base models are most likely the ones that don't have
> it, although I suspect they won't be able to get away with not providing
> it for much longer.

I have a base model Toyota circa 2016 and it came with a reversing
camera. Sadly, no Apple Carplay! My wife's 2016 Swift, much to her
chagrin, lacks a camera.

So you're wrong! How unsurprising! Not.
>
> If I remember correctly AEB has been declared as mandatory on all new
> cars sold in this country by 2023 or 2025 (I can't remember which), and
> it won't be difficult to extend that to include reverse AEB. I also
> believe that new ANCAP testing will include reverse AEB results as part
> of their overall rankings, and cars not so equipped will no doubt rate
> poorly compared to those that are.
>
> It's appalling to think that we need rules to force manufacturers to
> supply vehicles with such hardware when you consider the relatively low
> cost per vehicle to have it implemented versus the massive benefit it
> can provide, but that's how the world rolls. It's all about the dollar,
> and how much the manufacturers can get away with not having to spend.

All the expensive add-ons are put on the up-market *brands* first. Then
to the upmarket models of the *common marques* and they then slowly
gravitate down through the range until every car has them as standard
fitment. It's been like that with every marque in existence and likely
will not change.
>
> It was only just before Covid that I remember seeing a press conference
> on the nightly news where the CEO of Mazda Australia who was at a
> function to talk about something else stood up at a press conference and
> criticised reverse cameras as not being the useful technology some
> people thought they were, after a few journalists criticised Mazda as
> being one of the few companies who supplied vehicles without them as an
> option :)

Cite or it's just another of your bullshit tales!

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 31/07/2023 2:17 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 30/07/2023 4:59 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/reversing-cameras-sensors-in-new-vehicles-from-2025/
>>
>> Given the bonnet height of current utes, there is quite a large blind
>> spot in front that could easily hide a small child. Do they need a
>> forward camera too?
>
> **Absolutely. My MY18 Levvorg came with a rear camera, several forward
> facing cameras and a side camera. Fantastic for parking. However,
> cameras are only as good as the driver. A few weeks after I purchased
> the Levorg, I was parked at the local garden centre (front in). I came
> back to find a monster truck (Toyota Landcruiser) parked on the driver's
> side. Naturally, my view to the right was completely obscured. I put the
> car in reverse, checked the mirrors, checked the rear view TV screen.
> Nothing. I began reversing when all Hell broke loose. There was a VERY
> urgent beeping from the dash and the side mirror lights began flashing.
> I stomped on the brakes. Then, from the right side, two little kids
> (maybe 3 ~ 4 years old) ran across the path of my car. Rear Crossing
> Alert (RCA) is what Subaru calls it and I reckon it is fucking
> brilliant. It senses stuff that is well beyond the vision of the driver
> and cameras. I understand that some newer iterations of the system also
> automatically apply the brakes.
>
> IMO, RCA will become mandatory on ALL vehicles in the near future. It's
> cheap and would save lives.
>
My 7 year old Mazda 3 has rear crossing alert.

On 31/7/2023 3:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 31/07/2023 2:17 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 30/07/2023 4:59 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>
>>
>> **Absolutely. My MY18 Levvorg came with a rear camera, several forward
>> facing cameras and a side camera. Fantastic for parking. However,
>> cameras are only as good as the driver. A few weeks after I purchased
>> the Levorg, I was parked at the local garden centre (front in). I came
>> back to find a monster truck (Toyota Landcruiser) parked on the
>> driver's side. Naturally, my view to the right was completely
>> obscured. I put the car in reverse, checked the mirrors, checked the
>> rear view TV screen. Nothing. I began reversing when all Hell broke
>> loose. There was a VERY urgent beeping from the dash and the side
>> mirror lights began flashing. I stomped on the brakes. Then, from the
>> right side, two little kids (maybe 3 ~ 4 years old) ran across the
>> path of my car. Rear Crossing Alert (RCA) is what Subaru calls it and
>> I reckon it is fucking brilliant. It senses stuff that is well beyond
>> the vision of the driver and cameras. I understand that some newer
>> iterations of the system also automatically apply the brakes.
>
> Yes they will, and by & large they do a decent job, but it's far from a
> new idea. Autonomous rear braking has been around for a while. Our Santa
> Fe has it and it's coming up to 5 years old now. The Ranger has it also,
> and it's interesting to see the differences in operation between the
> two. The Santa Fe is somewhat more "refined" in that it has less false
> triggers. The Ranger by comparison is somewhat more aggressive in it's

Somewhat more aggressive? Matches the clowns behind the wheel.

> detection of objects that need to be avoided when moving in reverse, and
> to the point where if you're backing into a parking bay a little too
> quickly for it's liking it will get "spooked" by the kerb and slam the
> brakes on while setting off every light and buzzer it can find.
>
> I believe the sensitivity can be adjusted and at the moment it's in it's
> default setting, but when it works it certainly lets you know about it.
>
>> IMO, RCA will become mandatory on ALL vehicles in the near future.
>> It's cheap and would save lives.
>
> It should have been mandatory 5 years ago.

What should have been mandatory in Victoria years ago is *trade
licencing* to keep shonks like you out!
>

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 31/07/2023 4:51 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 31/07/2023 3:35 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 31/07/2023 3:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>>> IMO, RCA will become mandatory on ALL vehicles in the near future.
>>>> It's cheap and would save lives.
>>>
>>> It should have been mandatory 5 years ago.
>>>
>>
>> **Well, my MY18 Levorg is 6 years old in September (purchased in
>> Spetmeber 2017), so yeah. At least. Dunno when Subaru first
>> incorporated it into their cars. Many cars still lack the facility.
>
> I couldn't tell you the number of vehicles that don't have it these
> days, but I would suggest that it's becoming more common and there are
> probably more with it than not. Things like poverty pack Corollas and
> other bare bones base models are most likely the ones that don't have
> it, although I suspect they won't be able to get away with not providing
> it for much longer.
>
> If I remember correctly AEB has been declared as mandatory on all new
> cars sold in this country by 2023 or 2025 (I can't remember which), and
> it won't be difficult to extend that to include reverse AEB. I also
> believe that new ANCAP testing will include reverse AEB results as part
> of their overall rankings, and cars not so equipped will no doubt rate
> poorly compared to those that are.
>
> It's appalling to think that we need rules to force manufacturers to
> supply vehicles with such hardware when you consider the relatively low
> cost per vehicle to have it implemented versus the massive benefit it
> can provide, but that's how the world rolls. It's all about the dollar,
> and how much the manufacturers can get away with not having to spend.
>
> It was only just before Covid that I remember seeing a press conference
> on the nightly news where the CEO of Mazda Australia who was at a
> function to talk about something else stood up at a press conference and
> criticised reverse cameras as not being the useful technology some
> people thought they were, after a few journalists criticised Mazda as
> being one of the few companies who supplied vehicles without them as an
> option :)

Again the 7 year old Mazda 3 has a reversing camera, maybe the base
models didn't though.

On 31/7/2023 5:18 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 31/07/2023 4:51 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 31/07/2023 3:35 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 31/07/2023 3:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>>> IMO, RCA will become mandatory on ALL vehicles in the near future.
>>>>> It's cheap and would save lives.
>>>>
>>>> It should have been mandatory 5 years ago.
>>>>
>>>
>>> **Well, my MY18 Levorg is 6 years old in September (purchased in
>>> Spetmeber 2017), so yeah. At least. Dunno when Subaru first
>>> incorporated it into their cars. Many cars still lack the facility.
>>
>> I couldn't tell you the number of vehicles that don't have it these
>> days, but I would suggest that it's becoming more common and there are
>> probably more with it than not. Things like poverty pack Corollas and
>> other bare bones base models are most likely the ones that don't have
>> it, although I suspect they won't be able to get away with not
>> providing it for much longer.
>>
>> If I remember correctly AEB has been declared as mandatory on all new
>> cars sold in this country by 2023 or 2025 (I can't remember which),
>> and it won't be difficult to extend that to include reverse AEB. I
>> also believe that new ANCAP testing will include reverse AEB results
>> as part of their overall rankings, and cars not so equipped will no
>> doubt rate poorly compared to those that are.
>>
>> It's appalling to think that we need rules to force manufacturers to
>> supply vehicles with such hardware when you consider the relatively
>> low cost per vehicle to have it implemented versus the massive benefit
>> it can provide, but that's how the world rolls. It's all about the
>> dollar, and how much the manufacturers can get away with not having to
>> spend.
>>
>> It was only just before Covid that I remember seeing a press
>> conference on the nightly news where the CEO of Mazda Australia who
>> was at a function to talk about something else stood up at a press
>> conference and criticised reverse cameras as not being the useful
>> technology some people thought they were, after a few journalists
>> criticised Mazda as being one of the few companies who supplied
>> vehicles without them as an option :)
>
> Again the 7 year old Mazda 3 has a reversing camera, maybe the base
> models didn't though.
>
My 7 year old base model Toyota has a reversing camera. No big deal.
--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 31/07/2023 5:18 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 31/07/2023 4:51 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 31/07/2023 3:35 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 31/07/2023 3:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>>> IMO, RCA will become mandatory on ALL vehicles in the near future.
>>>>> It's cheap and would save lives.
>>>>
>>>> It should have been mandatory 5 years ago.
>>>>
>>>
>>> **Well, my MY18 Levorg is 6 years old in September (purchased in
>>> Spetmeber 2017), so yeah. At least. Dunno when Subaru first
>>> incorporated it into their cars. Many cars still lack the facility.
>>
>> I couldn't tell you the number of vehicles that don't have it these
>> days, but I would suggest that it's becoming more common and there are
>> probably more with it than not. Things like poverty pack Corollas and
>> other bare bones base models are most likely the ones that don't have
>> it, although I suspect they won't be able to get away with not
>> providing it for much longer.
>>
>> If I remember correctly AEB has been declared as mandatory on all new
>> cars sold in this country by 2023 or 2025 (I can't remember which),
>> and it won't be difficult to extend that to include reverse AEB. I
>> also believe that new ANCAP testing will include reverse AEB results
>> as part of their overall rankings, and cars not so equipped will no
>> doubt rate poorly compared to those that are.
>>
>> It's appalling to think that we need rules to force manufacturers to
>> supply vehicles with such hardware when you consider the relatively
>> low cost per vehicle to have it implemented versus the massive benefit
>> it can provide, but that's how the world rolls. It's all about the
>> dollar, and how much the manufacturers can get away with not having to
>> spend.
>>
>> It was only just before Covid that I remember seeing a press
>> conference on the nightly news where the CEO of Mazda Australia who
>> was at a function to talk about something else stood up at a press
>> conference and criticised reverse cameras as not being the useful
>> technology some people thought they were, after a few journalists
>> criticised Mazda as being one of the few companies who supplied
>> vehicles without them as an option :)
>
> Again the 7 year old Mazda 3 has a reversing camera, maybe the base
> models didn't though.
>

**My TWENTY TWO year old Nissan Stagea is fitted standard with a
reversing camera. And mirrors that angle down, when reverse parking.
Very cool. More useful than the Levorg's camera too.

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On 31/07/2023 5:16 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 31/07/2023 2:17 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 30/07/2023 4:59 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/reversing-cameras-sensors-in-new-vehicles-from-2025/
>>>
>>> Given the bonnet height of current utes, there is quite a large blind
>>> spot in front that could easily hide a small child. Do they need a
>>> forward camera too?
>>
>> **Absolutely. My MY18 Levvorg came with a rear camera, several forward
>> facing cameras and a side camera. Fantastic for parking. However,
>> cameras are only as good as the driver. A few weeks after I purchased
>> the Levorg, I was parked at the local garden centre (front in). I came
>> back to find a monster truck (Toyota Landcruiser) parked on the
>> driver's side. Naturally, my view to the right was completely
>> obscured. I put the car in reverse, checked the mirrors, checked the
>> rear view TV screen. Nothing. I began reversing when all Hell broke
>> loose. There was a VERY urgent beeping from the dash and the side
>> mirror lights began flashing. I stomped on the brakes. Then, from the
>> right side, two little kids (maybe 3 ~ 4 years old) ran across the
>> path of my car. Rear Crossing Alert (RCA) is what Subaru calls it and
>> I reckon it is fucking brilliant. It senses stuff that is well beyond
>> the vision of the driver and cameras. I understand that some newer
>> iterations of the system also automatically apply the brakes.
>>
>> IMO, RCA will become mandatory on ALL vehicles in the near future.
>> It's cheap and would save lives.
>>
> My 7 year old Mazda 3 has rear crossing alert.

**There you go. It's a fabulous accessory.

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On 31/07/2023 5:18 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 31/07/2023 4:51 pm, Noddy wrote:

>> It was only just before Covid that I remember seeing a press
>> conference on the nightly news where the CEO of Mazda Australia who
>> was at a function to talk about something else stood up at a press
>> conference and criticised reverse cameras as not being the useful
>> technology some people thought they were, after a few journalists
>> criticised Mazda as being one of the few companies who supplied
>> vehicles without them as an option :)
>
> Again the 7 year old Mazda 3 has a reversing camera, maybe the base
> models didn't though.

As I said the media conference wasn't about cameras specifically, but
the CEO was asked an ad hoc question about other brands having them and
his products not and he gave a pretty flippant and somewhat arrogant
answer that didn't go overt terribly well :)

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Noddy.

On 31/07/2023 7:12 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 31/07/2023 5:18 pm, Keithr0 wrote:

>> Again the 7 year old Mazda 3 has a reversing camera, maybe the base
>> models didn't though.
>>
>
> **My TWENTY TWO year old Nissan Stagea is fitted standard with a
> reversing camera. And mirrors that angle down, when reverse parking.
> Very cool. More useful than the Levorg's camera too.

A lot of cars have the tilt mirrors, and they're completely useless in
my opinion. Unless, of course, you're a bad enough parker that you
actually need to see where your rear wheel is :)

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Noddy.

On 31/07/2023 7:13 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 31/07/2023 5:16 pm, Keithr0 wrote:

>>> IMO, RCA will become mandatory on ALL vehicles in the near future.
>>> It's cheap and would save lives.
>>>
>> My 7 year old Mazda 3 has rear crossing alert.
>
> **There you go. It's a fabulous accessory.

Indeed it is, and in my opinion it's as important as stability control
or ABS brakes.

We've had compulsory pool fencing for some time in this country to
prevent backyard child drownings, and everyone has to comply even if you
don't have kids. 7 child deaths and over 60 injuries occur from kids
being accidentally backed over in their own driveways every year with
reverse AEB having the potential to prevent every single one of them yet
is currently no law to make it mandatory.

To my mind that's a decision that is bordering on criminal.

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Noddy.

On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 20:34:25 +1000, Noddy wrote:

> On 31/07/2023 7:13 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 31/07/2023 5:16 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>
>>>> IMO, RCA will become mandatory on ALL vehicles in the near future.
>>>> It's cheap and would save lives.
>>>>
>>> My 7 year old Mazda 3 has rear crossing alert.
>>
>> **There you go. It's a fabulous accessory.
>
> Indeed it is, and in my opinion it's as important as stability control
> or ABS brakes.
>
> We've had compulsory pool fencing for some time in this country to
> prevent backyard child drownings, and everyone has to comply even if you
> don't have kids. 7 child deaths and over 60 injuries occur from kids
> being accidentally backed over in their own driveways every year with
> reverse AEB having the potential to prevent every single one of them yet
> is currently no law to make it mandatory.
>
> To my mind that's a decision that is bordering on criminal.

Whereas letting a passenger *not* wear a seatbelt, like you do with your
kid, actually *is* illegal.

hth

alvey

On 31/07/2023 4:51 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 31/07/2023 3:35 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 31/07/2023 3:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>>> IMO, RCA will become mandatory on ALL vehicles in the near future.
>>>> It's cheap and would save lives.
>>>
>>> It should have been mandatory 5 years ago.
>>>
>>
>> **Well, my MY18 Levorg is 6 years old in September (purchased in
>> Spetmeber 2017), so yeah. At least. Dunno when Subaru first
>> incorporated it into their cars. Many cars still lack the facility.
>
> I couldn't tell you the number of vehicles that don't have it these
> days, but I would suggest that it's becoming more common and there are
> probably more with it than not. Things like poverty pack Corollas and
> other bare bones base models are most likely the ones that don't have
> it, although I suspect they won't be able to get away with not providing
> it for much longer.
>
> If I remember correctly AEB has been declared as mandatory on all new
> cars sold in this country by 2023 or 2025 (I can't remember which), and
> it won't be difficult to extend that to include reverse AEB.

**Although they are completely different systems, requiring different
sensors, it was certainly not difficult in 2017. That said, it was an
option on all the Mercs ($25k option pack - fucking greedy arseholes) I
looked at back then. Ditto with Honda, VW and Toyota. I'm pretty certain
Hyundai had it as standard on the models I looked at.

I also
> believe that new ANCAP testing will include reverse AEB results as part
> of their overall rankings, and cars not so equipped will no doubt rate
> poorly compared to those that are.

**Yep.

>
> It's appalling to think that we need rules to force manufacturers to
> supply vehicles with such hardware when you consider the relatively low
> cost per vehicle to have it implemented versus the massive benefit it
> can provide, but that's how the world rolls. It's all about the dollar,
> and how much the manufacturers can get away with not having to spend.

**Yep. Mercedes wanted $25k for the same stuff that Subaru fitted as
standard in my car.

>
> It was only just before Covid that I remember seeing a press conference
> on the nightly news where the CEO of Mazda Australia who was at a
> function to talk about something else stood up at a press conference and
> criticised reverse cameras as not being the useful technology some
> people thought they were, after a few journalists criticised Mazda as
> being one of the few companies who supplied vehicles without them as an
> option :)

**I believe you are wrong. Although most car manufacturers were way
behind Nissan (my 22 year old Stagea has a reversing camera as standard
fitment), Mazda was one of the earlier adopters. AEB was also fitted to
some Mazda models quite some time ago as well.

Correction: It seems that, apart from Buick that had fitted one to a car
in 1956, Toyota was one of the earliest adopters, with the mighty Soarer:

https://drives.today/articles/315/history/first-production-series-car-with-a-reverse-camera-1990-toyota-soarer-limited/lee-911-sib.html

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On 1/08/2023 10:37 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 31/07/2023 4:51 pm, Noddy wrote:

>> If I remember correctly AEB has been declared as mandatory on all new
>> cars sold in this country by 2023 or 2025 (I can't remember which),
>> and it won't be difficult to extend that to include reverse AEB.
>
>
> **Although they are completely different systems, requiring different
> sensors, it was certainly not difficult in 2017.

There is not that much that's different about them Trev. They are both
collision mitigation systems and both set out to achieve the same thing.
The only real difference, apart from the physical location on the
vehicle, is that the Rear AEB has a wider field of view.

That said, it was an
> option on all the Mercs ($25k option pack - fucking greedy arseholes) I
> looked at back then. Ditto with Honda, VW and Toyota. I'm pretty certain
> Hyundai had it as standard on the models I looked at.

When I took my mother in law out to buy a new I30 hatch some years ago
there was an optional safety pack which included front and rear AEB. It
was around 1500 bucks if I remember correctly.

>> It's appalling to think that we need rules to force manufacturers to
>> supply vehicles with such hardware when you consider the relatively
>> low cost per vehicle to have it implemented versus the massive benefit
>> it can provide, but that's how the world rolls. It's all about the
>> dollar, and how much the manufacturers can get away with not having to
>> spend.
>
> **Yep. Mercedes wanted $25k for the same stuff that Subaru fitted as
> standard in my car.

Your Subaru doesn't have rear autonomous braking, so you were getting
something extra in the Benz, even if it was expensive.
>> It was only just before Covid that I remember seeing a press
>> conference on the nightly news where the CEO of Mazda Australia who
>> was at a function to talk about something else stood up at a press
>> conference and criticised reverse cameras as not being the useful
>> technology some people thought they were, after a few journalists
>> criticised Mazda as being one of the few companies who supplied
>> vehicles without them as an option :)
>
> **I believe you are wrong. Although most car manufacturers were way
> behind Nissan (my 22 year old Stagea has a reversing camera as standard
> fitment), Mazda was one of the earlier adopters. AEB was also fitted to
> some Mazda models quite some time ago as well.

Mazda was most certainly *not* one of the early adopters, and
particularly at the low end of the market. It should have also been
obvious to you that as I mentioned the CEO of Mazda *Australia* that
grey imports like your Stagea were not the topic of conversation.

However, I did happen to find a reference to the article that I
remember, and it dates back to 2015 with Mazda's launch of the 3 Neo. As
I said I saw the incident on TV as the responses from Mazda's boss were
ridiculous enough to make the news, but you can read about it here:

> https://www.drive.com.au/news/mazda-3-neo-boss-defends-lack-of-reverse-view-camera-says-kids-shouldnt-be-on-driveways/

Clearly Mazda were not the leaders in low end tech as you like to think,
and early criticism of the car not having a reverse camera while cheaper
alternatives did was quite valid. But it was the ridiculous excuses
offered up my Mazda's chief that grabbed the limelight, including his
response to the suggestion that reverse cameras would go a long way to
preventing children getting run over in their own driveways which he
addressed with:

> “I don’t see the driveway as being a place where kids should be walking around in the first place,”

Which was absolutely disgusting, and not worthy of anyone holding such a
position. He handled himself very badly that day and made both himself
and the product look like something to be avoided, and I hope the powers
that be made a note of it and took the necessary action.

He literally carried on like a fucking idiot who was *way* out of his
depth. Like Clasener in fact, but with not as much irrational bullshit.

> Correction: It seems that, apart from Buick that had fitted one to a car
> in 1956, Toyota was one of the earliest adopters, with the mighty Soarer:

Lol :) Read the article Trev. It would seem that back in 2015 the
*other* cheap-arsed car not to get a reverse camera as standard in
Australia was the Toyota Corolla :)

I nearly bought a Soarer once as I always found it to be a very
attractive looking car. However one drive to get the feel of the thing
left me wondering what all the fuss was about. The V8 engine was
hopelessly lethargic and the cheesy interior made me never want to go
anywhere near one ever again.

The idea of calling one "mighty" is absolutely hilarious :)

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Noddy.