From todays SMH. I like the last line of the piece.

"While driving recently, you may have noticed some huge vehicles on the
road. Perhaps you�ve seen an enormous, shiny SUV too wide to fit in a
turning lane, or maybe you�ve held your breath overtaking a vehicle that
feels more like a tank than a normal car. This isn�t even hyperbole: the
largest Toyota Hiluxes are now around the same size as the Sherman tanks
used during World War II.

Over the past few decades cars have grown a lot bigger, but with the
introduction of the massive Dodge Ram and Ford F-150s, weighing in at up
to three tonnes, we might have reached the absurd extreme. We know that
everything is bigger in Texas, but now these huge SUVs and � to import
another term from the US � �pickup trucks� are also hitting Australian
streets in big numbers.

They�re hard to miss: you�ll find them struggling to fit into car parks
and overhanging into footpaths and bike lanes.

It turns out that they�re not just an oversized annoyance, they�re also
dangerous.

Car crashes are now the leading cause of death of Australian children,
and these monster trucks are their deadliest incarnation.

Part of the problem is the shape of the vehicles. While they might feel
like they sit nice and high with good visibility, the boxy front grille
(which primarily exist to make the vehicles look �tough�) actually
creates huge blind spots. A news crew put this to the test. They lined up
a group of kids in front of a Ford F-150 until they were visible from the
driver�s seat. It wasn�t until the eleventh child joined the row that a
ponytail and the top of their head could be seen. These deadly blind
spots have led to numerous tragedies where children have inadvertently
been driven over in their own driveways.

After decades of work in improving road safety in our country, there�s a
real chance that these vehicles will undo a lot of this progress. They�re
not designed for Australian streets, which are generally narrower and
have more cyclist and pedestrian interactions than their natural habitat
in America. Having just returned from a trip to the US and seen how
common these vehicles are, I�m not surprised that pedestrian deaths in
America are now at a 40-year-high � a public health crisis we should work
to avoid.

The square shape and huge mass of these suburban tanks means that when
they are involved in an accident, it�s much more likely to be a deadly
one. In fact, one study found kids are eight times more likely to die
when hit by a SUV compared to a normal passenger car.

So why have these vehicles become more popular in Australia? For car
manufacturers and dealers, the answer is easy: they make a lot more money
selling truckzillas, which can cost into the six figures, than cheaper
alternatives. Consumers have therefore seen a decline in smaller, lighter
options.

Pickup truck owners will often say their motivation is greater towing and
loading capacity, but the truth is some people just like to feel big on
the road. And the marketing reflects this, describing these colossal
vehicles as the �apex predator[s] of the truck world�, that �eat
everything else for breakfast�. The evidence shows that these vehicles
aren�t always safer, and they�re more likely to be hauling a huge ego
than a large load.

Of course we will always need larger vehicles like removalist vans and
tankers on our roads, but we have to ask ourselves: should people really
be doing the school run in an oversized commercial truck?

It�s not just the damage to people and the quality of street life that
these vehicles are impacting. If SUVs were a country, they would be the
sixth-largest emitter on Earth.

Other parts of the world are being more proactive on this issue,
introducing stricter emissions standards, registration fees that take
into account vehicle weight, and banning trucks in certain areas of the
city. Safety technology such as speed limiters and mandatory 360-degree
cameras would also make these vehicles safer.

If Australia decides that we have to live with these vehicles, there are
a lot of changes we�re going to need to make. To reduce the number and
severity of crashes involving SUV and pickup trucks, speeds in
residential areas will need to be reduced significantly. We�ll need more
separated bike lanes, as there won�t be enough space to share on the
roads. We�ll need fewer (but larger) parking spaces, just to physically
fit them in at the local shopping centre.

Road safety affects all of us, and we need to make our streets work for
the most fragile bodies in our community, not the most fragile egos."

Julian O�Shea is a Lecturer at Monash University.

Maybe a valid excuse if you have to tow large boat/caravan, but too many
in the city. There is a shiny new F-450 that parks illegally at various
shops in the wealthy suburbs of Perth. The driver looks like some gym
junkie on steroids, probably got shrunken genitals.

alvey wrote:
> From todays SMH. I like the last line of the piece.
>
> "While driving recently, you may have noticed some huge vehicles on the
> road. Perhaps you’ve seen an enormous, shiny SUV too wide to fit in a
> turning lane, or maybe you’ve held your breath overtaking a vehicle that
> feels more like a tank than a normal car. This isn’t even hyperbole: the
> largest Toyota Hiluxes are now around the same size as the Sherman tanks
> used during World War II.
>
> Over the past few decades cars have grown a lot bigger, but with the
> introduction of the massive Dodge Ram and Ford F-150s, weighing in at up
> to three tonnes, we might have reached the absurd extreme. We know that
> everything is bigger in Texas, but now these huge SUVs and – to import
> another term from the US – “pickup trucks” are also hitting Australian
> streets in big numbers.
>
> They’re hard to miss: you’ll find them struggling to fit into car parks
> and overhanging into footpaths and bike lanes.
>
> It turns out that they’re not just an oversized annoyance, they’re also
> dangerous.
>
> Car crashes are now the leading cause of death of Australian children,
> and these monster trucks are their deadliest incarnation.
>
> Part of the problem is the shape of the vehicles. While they might feel
> like they sit nice and high with good visibility, the boxy front grille
> (which primarily exist to make the vehicles look “tough”) actually
> creates huge blind spots. A news crew put this to the test. They lined up
> a group of kids in front of a Ford F-150 until they were visible from the
> driver’s seat. It wasn’t until the eleventh child joined the row that a
> ponytail and the top of their head could be seen. These deadly blind
> spots have led to numerous tragedies where children have inadvertently
> been driven over in their own driveways.
>
>
> After decades of work in improving road safety in our country, there’s a
> real chance that these vehicles will undo a lot of this progress. They’re
> not designed for Australian streets, which are generally narrower and
> have more cyclist and pedestrian interactions than their natural habitat
> in America. Having just returned from a trip to the US and seen how
> common these vehicles are, I’m not surprised that pedestrian deaths in
> America are now at a 40-year-high – a public health crisis we should work
> to avoid.
>
> The square shape and huge mass of these suburban tanks means that when
> they are involved in an accident, it’s much more likely to be a deadly
> one. In fact, one study found kids are eight times more likely to die
> when hit by a SUV compared to a normal passenger car.
>
> So why have these vehicles become more popular in Australia? For car
> manufacturers and dealers, the answer is easy: they make a lot more money
> selling truckzillas, which can cost into the six figures, than cheaper
> alternatives. Consumers have therefore seen a decline in smaller, lighter
> options.
>
> Pickup truck owners will often say their motivation is greater towing and
> loading capacity, but the truth is some people just like to feel big on
> the road. And the marketing reflects this, describing these colossal
> vehicles as the “apex predator[s] of the truck world”, that “eat
> everything else for breakfast”. The evidence shows that these vehicles
> aren’t always safer, and they’re more likely to be hauling a huge ego
> than a large load.
>
> Of course we will always need larger vehicles like removalist vans and
> tankers on our roads, but we have to ask ourselves: should people really
> be doing the school run in an oversized commercial truck?
>
> It’s not just the damage to people and the quality of street life that
> these vehicles are impacting. If SUVs were a country, they would be the
> sixth-largest emitter on Earth.
>
> Other parts of the world are being more proactive on this issue,
> introducing stricter emissions standards, registration fees that take
> into account vehicle weight, and banning trucks in certain areas of the
> city. Safety technology such as speed limiters and mandatory 360-degree
> cameras would also make these vehicles safer.
>
> If Australia decides that we have to live with these vehicles, there are
> a lot of changes we’re going to need to make. To reduce the number and
> severity of crashes involving SUV and pickup trucks, speeds in
> residential areas will need to be reduced significantly. We’ll need more
> separated bike lanes, as there won’t be enough space to share on the
> roads. We’ll need fewer (but larger) parking spaces, just to physically
> fit them in at the local shopping centre.
>
> Road safety affects all of us, and we need to make our streets work for
> the most fragile bodies in our community, not the most fragile egos."
>
> Julian O’Shea is a Lecturer at Monash University.

most ppl that drive these monstrosities and oversize SUV's don't need
them. it's all about ego. ergo.. "I'm better bigger, badder, and meaner
then you, and you had better get outa my way".  I remember once asking
my accountant when he bought his big SUV why. I said SUV drivers just
want to bully everyone else on the road, and he said that's exactly
right! so admitted he wanted to too.

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

FUCK PUTIN!!

On 12/5/2023 11:53 am, Ozix wrote:
> Maybe a valid excuse if you have to tow large boat/caravan, but too many
> in the city. There is a shiny new F-450 that parks illegally at various
> shops in the wealthy suburbs of Perth. The driver looks like some gym
> junkie on steroids, probably got shrunken genitals.

Everyone is buying them?
https://www.harrisonftrucks.com.au/all-stock/view/2018-Ford-F450/28830937
At in excess of $250k for a 5yr old used F450 its hardly likely that
"everyone is buying" those vehicles.
Even the smaller models and the Chev and Dodge equivalents are very
expensive so they sell in very small numbers, maybe your shrunken
genitals are affecting your eye sight.

--
Daryl

Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote:
> On 12/5/2023 11:53 am, Ozix wrote:
>> Maybe a valid excuse if you have to tow large boat/caravan, but too many
>> in the city. There is a shiny new F-450 that parks illegally at various
>> shops in the wealthy suburbs of Perth. The driver looks like some gym
>> junkie on steroids, probably got shrunken genitals.
>
>
> Everyone is buying them?

Everyone is buying *big utes*, you clown! Can’t you read between the lines,
the above response was merely an example of pumped up ego.

> https://www.harrisonftrucks.com.au/all-stock/view/2018-Ford-F450/28830937
> At in excess of $250k for a 5yr old used F450 its hardly likely that
> "everyone is buying" those vehicles.
> Even the smaller models and the Chev and Dodge equivalents are very
> expensive so they sell in very small numbers, maybe your shrunken
> genitals are affecting your eye sight.
>
>
The above from a clown whose own ego stroking is used and clapped out
Porsche’s and Benz’s in an effort to conjure up the *image* of wealth.
Sad!

____
Xeno

alvey <Patty.O.Furniture@Coast.org> wrote:
> From todays SMH. I like the last line of the piece.

You beat me too it. Read it this morning at coffee break and thought it
thoroughly apt for some in this newsgroup. Especially this bit;

“and they’re more likely to be hauling a huge ego than a large load.”

____
Xeno

>
> "While driving recently, you may have noticed some huge vehicles on the
> road. Perhaps you’ve seen an enormous, shiny SUV too wide to fit in a
> turning lane, or maybe you’ve held your breath overtaking a vehicle that
> feels more like a tank than a normal car. This isn’t even hyperbole: the
> largest Toyota Hiluxes are now around the same size as the Sherman tanks
> used during World War II.
>
> Over the past few decades cars have grown a lot bigger, but with the
> introduction of the massive Dodge Ram and Ford F-150s, weighing in at up
> to three tonnes, we might have reached the absurd extreme. We know that
> everything is bigger in Texas, but now these huge SUVs and – to import
> another term from the US – “pickup trucks” are also hitting Australian
> streets in big numbers.
>
> They’re hard to miss: you’ll find them struggling to fit into car parks
> and overhanging into footpaths and bike lanes.
>
> It turns out that they’re not just an oversized annoyance, they’re also
> dangerous.
>
> Car crashes are now the leading cause of death of Australian children,
> and these monster trucks are their deadliest incarnation.
>
> Part of the problem is the shape of the vehicles. While they might feel
> like they sit nice and high with good visibility, the boxy front grille
> (which primarily exist to make the vehicles look “tough”) actually
> creates huge blind spots. A news crew put this to the test. They lined up
> a group of kids in front of a Ford F-150 until they were visible from the
> driver’s seat. It wasn’t until the eleventh child joined the row that a
> ponytail and the top of their head could be seen. These deadly blind
> spots have led to numerous tragedies where children have inadvertently
> been driven over in their own driveways.
>
>
> After decades of work in improving road safety in our country, there’s a
> real chance that these vehicles will undo a lot of this progress. They’re
> not designed for Australian streets, which are generally narrower and
> have more cyclist and pedestrian interactions than their natural habitat
> in America. Having just returned from a trip to the US and seen how
> common these vehicles are, I’m not surprised that pedestrian deaths in
> America are now at a 40-year-high – a public health crisis we should work
> to avoid.
>
> The square shape and huge mass of these suburban tanks means that when
> they are involved in an accident, it’s much more likely to be a deadly
> one. In fact, one study found kids are eight times more likely to die
> when hit by a SUV compared to a normal passenger car.
>
> So why have these vehicles become more popular in Australia? For car
> manufacturers and dealers, the answer is easy: they make a lot more money
> selling truckzillas, which can cost into the six figures, than cheaper
> alternatives. Consumers have therefore seen a decline in smaller, lighter
> options.
>
> Pickup truck owners will often say their motivation is greater towing and
> loading capacity, but the truth is some people just like to feel big on
> the road. And the marketing reflects this, describing these colossal
> vehicles as the “apex predator[s] of the truck world”, that “eat
> everything else for breakfast”. The evidence shows that these vehicles
> aren’t always safer, and they’re more likely to be hauling a huge ego
> than a large load.
>
> Of course we will always need larger vehicles like removalist vans and
> tankers on our roads, but we have to ask ourselves: should people really
> be doing the school run in an oversized commercial truck?
>
> It’s not just the damage to people and the quality of street life that
> these vehicles are impacting. If SUVs were a country, they would be the
> sixth-largest emitter on Earth.
>
> Other parts of the world are being more proactive on this issue,
> introducing stricter emissions standards, registration fees that take
> into account vehicle weight, and banning trucks in certain areas of the
> city. Safety technology such as speed limiters and mandatory 360-degree
> cameras would also make these vehicles safer.
>
> If Australia decides that we have to live with these vehicles, there are
> a lot of changes we’re going to need to make. To reduce the number and
> severity of crashes involving SUV and pickup trucks, speeds in
> residential areas will need to be reduced significantly. We’ll need more
> separated bike lanes, as there won’t be enough space to share on the
> roads. We’ll need fewer (but larger) parking spaces, just to physically
> fit them in at the local shopping centre.
>
> Road safety affects all of us, and we need to make our streets work for
> the most fragile bodies in our community, not the most fragile egos."
>
> Julian O’Shea is a Lecturer at Monash University.
>

On 12/05/2023 1:22 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 12/5/2023 11:53 am, Ozix wrote:
>> Maybe a valid excuse if you have to tow large boat/caravan, but too
>> many in the city. There is a shiny new F-450 that parks illegally at
>> various shops in the wealthy suburbs of Perth. The driver looks like
>> some gym junkie on steroids, probably got shrunken genitals.
>
>
> Everyone is buying them?

Yeah, I don't think so, but there's nothing like a bit of nonsensical
hysteria to whip the A Current Affair watching mongs into a frenzy :)

> https://www.harrisonftrucks.com.au/all-stock/view/2018-Ford-F450/28830937
> At in excess of $250k for a 5yr old used F450 its hardly likely that
> "everyone is buying" those vehicles.
> Even the smaller models and the Chev and Dodge equivalents are very
> expensive so they sell in very small numbers, maybe your shrunken
> genitals are affecting your eye sight.

Init funny how the noise making Karens think that they have right to
criticise what *other* people drive on the grounds of their purchase
choice being legitimately justified, but *also* believe that they can
drive whatever the fuck they like without said justification needing to
apply and that it's no one else's business :)

Fucking morons, the lot of them :)

In case they've been sleeping under a rock for the last 20 years, Dual
Cab utes and SUV/Wagons are *not* a recent phenomena and have in fact
been the most popular choice of new vehicle in this country for many
years, and anyone who thinks that's a problem that unfairly affects them
is an imbecile.

It's that simple....

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Daryl wrote:
> On 12/5/2023 11:53 am, Ozix wrote:
>> Maybe a valid excuse if you have to tow large boat/caravan, but too
>> many in the city. There is a shiny new F-450 that parks illegally at
>> various shops in the wealthy suburbs of Perth. The driver looks like
>> some gym junkie on steroids, probably got shrunken genitals.
>
>
> Everyone is buying them?
> https://www.harrisonftrucks.com.au/all-stock/view/2018-Ford-F450/28830937
> At in excess of $250k for a 5yr old used F450 its hardly likely that
> "everyone is buying" those vehicles.
> Even the smaller models and the Chev and Dodge equivalents are very
> expensive so they sell in very small numbers, maybe your shrunken
> genitals are affecting your eye sight.
>
>

there are a LOT of large(ish) SUV's on the road these days, ie. Toyota,
Nissan, Mitsub, etc,. not as large as the super large ones maybe, but
still large enough to be ridiculously unnecessary for most families and
a nuisance on the road and in parking lots.

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

FUCK PUTIN!!

Xeno wrote:
> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote:
>> On 12/5/2023 11:53 am, Ozix wrote:
>>> Maybe a valid excuse if you have to tow large boat/caravan, but too many
>>> in the city. There is a shiny new F-450 that parks illegally at various
>>> shops in the wealthy suburbs of Perth. The driver looks like some gym
>>> junkie on steroids, probably got shrunken genitals.
>>
>> Everyone is buying them?
> Everyone is buying *big utes*, you clown! Can’t you read between the lines,
> the above response was merely an example of pumped up ego.

too many ppl today think they're 'special' and the world needs to
accommodate their wishes.

>> https://www.harrisonftrucks.com.au/all-stock/view/2018-Ford-F450/28830937
>> At in excess of $250k for a 5yr old used F450 its hardly likely that
>> "everyone is buying" those vehicles.
>> Even the smaller models and the Chev and Dodge equivalents are very
>> expensive so they sell in very small numbers, maybe your shrunken
>> genitals are affecting your eye sight.
>>
>>
> The above from a clown whose own ego stroking is used and clapped out
> Porsche’s and Benz’s in an effort to conjure up the *image* of wealth.
> Sad!

example in point lol

> ____
> Xeno
>
>
>

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

FUCK PUTIN!!

Noddy wrote:
> On 12/05/2023 1:22 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 12/5/2023 11:53 am, Ozix wrote:
>>> Maybe a valid excuse if you have to tow large boat/caravan, but too
>>> many in the city. There is a shiny new F-450 that parks illegally at
>>> various shops in the wealthy suburbs of Perth. The driver looks like
>>> some gym junkie on steroids, probably got shrunken genitals.
>>
>>
>> Everyone is buying them?
>
> Yeah, I don't think so, but there's nothing like a bit of nonsensical
> hysteria to whip the A Current Affair watching mongs into a frenzy :)
>
>> https://www.harrisonftrucks.com.au/all-stock/view/2018-Ford-F450/28830937
>>
>> At in excess of $250k for a 5yr old used F450 its hardly likely that
>> "everyone is buying" those vehicles.
>> Even the smaller models and the Chev and Dodge equivalents are very
>> expensive so they sell in very small numbers, maybe your shrunken
>> genitals are affecting your eye sight.
>
> Init funny how the noise making Karens think that they have right to
> criticise what *other* people drive on the grounds of their purchase
> choice being legitimately justified, but *also* believe that they can
> drive whatever the fuck they like without said justification needing
> to apply and that it's no one else's business :)

no

>
> Fucking morons, the lot of them :)

no

>
> In case they've been sleeping under a rock for the last 20 years, Dual
> Cab utes and SUV/Wagons are *not* a recent phenomena and have in fact
> been the most popular choice of new vehicle in this country for many
> years, and anyone who thinks that's a problem that unfairly affects
> them is an imbecile.
>
> It's that simple....
>
>

your brain?

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

FUCK PUTIN!!

On 12/5/2023 3:04 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 12/05/2023 1:22 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 12/5/2023 11:53 am, Ozix wrote:
>>> Maybe a valid excuse if you have to tow large boat/caravan, but too
>>> many in the city. There is a shiny new F-450 that parks illegally at
>>> various shops in the wealthy suburbs of Perth. The driver looks like
>>> some gym junkie on steroids, probably got shrunken genitals.
>>
>>
>> Everyone is buying them?
>
> Yeah, I don't think so, but there's nothing like a bit of nonsensical
> hysteria to whip the A Current Affair watching mongs into a frenzy :)

You must watch that show Darren - since you brought it into the
discussion. Just like you *claim* you never watch John Cadogan's Youtube
videos yet channel his patter line and verse. You're such a hypocrite!
>
>> https://www.harrisonftrucks.com.au/all-stock/view/2018-Ford-F450/28830937
>> At in excess of $250k for a 5yr old used F450 its hardly likely that
>> "everyone is buying" those vehicles.
>> Even the smaller models and the Chev and Dodge equivalents are very
>> expensive so they sell in very small numbers, maybe your shrunken
>> genitals are affecting your eye sight.
>
> Init funny how the noise making Karens think that they have right to

Mr shrunken balls himself comments!

> criticise what *other* people drive on the grounds of their purchase
> choice being legitimately justified, but *also* believe that they can

People should drive a vehicle sized according to their *needs*, not
their ego. Ergo, overinflated vehicles pandering to the needs of
overinflated egos. Hey, given the size of *your* overinflated ego, I'm
surprised you don't drive a Mack truck down town when you go for your
morning coffee. And the school drop offs and pick ups. There, we've
covered 95%+ of your vehicular *needs*.

> drive whatever the fuck they like without said justification needing to
> apply and that it's no one else's business :)

It is when the oversized vehicles try to squeeze into small parking
spaces sized for *cars*.
>
> Fucking morons, the lot of them :)

Well, yes, you are. Proven too!
>
> In case they've been sleeping under a rock for the last 20 years, Dual
> Cab utes and SUV/Wagons are *not* a recent phenomena and have in fact
> been the most popular choice of new vehicle in this country for many
> years, and anyone who thinks that's a problem that unfairly affects them
> is an imbecile.

The time scale is *not* the point of the newspaper article Darren, it's
the *fact that large fourbys* are becoming the predominant vehicle on
our roads.
>
> It's that simple....

Correction, *you* are that simple!

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 12/5/2023 4:22 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> Noddy wrote:
>> On 12/05/2023 1:22 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 12/5/2023 11:53 am, Ozix wrote:
>>>> Maybe a valid excuse if you have to tow large boat/caravan, but too
>>>> many in the city. There is a shiny new F-450 that parks illegally at
>>>> various shops in the wealthy suburbs of Perth. The driver looks like
>>>> some gym junkie on steroids, probably got shrunken genitals.
>>>
>>>
>>> Everyone is buying them?
>>
>> Yeah, I don't think so, but there's nothing like a bit of nonsensical
>> hysteria to whip the A Current Affair watching mongs into a frenzy :)
>>
>>> https://www.harrisonftrucks.com.au/all-stock/view/2018-Ford-F450/28830937
>>> At in excess of $250k for a 5yr old used F450 its hardly likely that
>>> "everyone is buying" those vehicles.
>>> Even the smaller models and the Chev and Dodge equivalents are very
>>> expensive so they sell in very small numbers, maybe your shrunken
>>> genitals are affecting your eye sight.
>>
>> Init funny how the noise making Karens think that they have right to
>> criticise what *other* people drive on the grounds of their purchase
>> choice being legitimately justified, but *also* believe that they can
>> drive whatever the fuck they like without said justification needing
>> to apply and that it's no one else's business :)
>
> no
>
>>
>> Fucking morons, the lot of them :)
>
> no
>
>>
>> In case they've been sleeping under a rock for the last 20 years, Dual
>> Cab utes and SUV/Wagons are *not* a recent phenomena and have in fact
>> been the most popular choice of new vehicle in this country for many
>> years, and anyone who thinks that's a problem that unfairly affects
>> them is an imbecile.
>>
>> It's that simple....
>>
>>
>
> your brain?
>
Big assumption there - if he has one he keeps it well hidden.
--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 12/05/2023 2:51 pm, Xeno wrote:

> The above from a clown whose own ego stroking is used and clapped out
> Porsche’s and Benz’s in an effort to conjure up the *image* of wealth.
> Sad!

Oh the spite. "an effort to conjure up the *image* of wealth" you must
be desperate to make a stupid statement like that.

On 12/05/2023 1:22 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 12/5/2023 11:53 am, Ozix wrote:
>> Maybe a valid excuse if you have to tow large boat/caravan, but too
>> many in the city. There is a shiny new F-450 that parks illegally at
>> various shops in the wealthy suburbs of Perth. The driver looks like
>> some gym junkie on steroids, probably got shrunken genitals.
>
>
> Everyone is buying them?
> https://www.harrisonftrucks.com.au/all-stock/view/2018-Ford-F450/28830937
> At in excess of $250k for a 5yr old used F450 its hardly likely that
> "everyone is buying" those vehicles.
> Even the smaller models and the Chev and Dodge equivalents are very
> expensive so they sell in very small numbers, maybe your shrunken
> genitals are affecting your eye sight.
>
April 2023 top-sellers listed below:

Ford Ranger
Toyota Hilux
Toyota RAV4
Tesla Model Y
Hyundai i30
Mitsubishi Outlander
Isuzu UTE D-Max
Hyundai Tucson
MG ZS
Tesla Model 3

3 utes in the top 10, and utes are getting progressively bigger. In
2013, I went to the New York motor show, I stood in front of one of the
utes (sorry trerks) on show, the bonnet came up to my nipples, and I
thought thank god there is some sanity back in Australia, but recently,
I got into the Mazda 3 at Woolies, there was a ute parked in front of
me, the top of the bonnet was above my eye-line. Now that we don't build
anything here we are getting the stuff mostly designed for the US where
bigger is better is the mantra in just about anything. Big utes are the
current fashion, some people need utes, some need big utes, but as a
family car, I just don't see the point.

A couple of points, the market here for RAM utes/trucks has got to the
point where they are talking about making factory built RHD models
rather than converting them here. Toyota believe that there is now a
market here for the Tundra, it has been on sale in the US for more than
a decade but was previously thought too big for the Australian market.

On 13/05/2023 3:44 am, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 12/05/2023 2:51 pm, Xeno wrote:
>
>> The above from a clown whose own ego stroking is used and clapped out
>> Porsche’s and Benz’s in an effort to conjure up the *image* of wealth.
>> Sad!
>
> Oh the spite. "an effort to conjure up the *image* of wealth" you must
> be desperate to make a stupid statement like that.

You're talking to a bloke who's "toy" is an old poverty pack Corolla. It
doesn't get any sadder than that.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 13/05/2023 4:07 am, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 12/05/2023 1:22 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 12/5/2023 11:53 am, Ozix wrote:
>>> Maybe a valid excuse if you have to tow large boat/caravan, but too
>>> many in the city. There is a shiny new F-450 that parks illegally at
>>> various shops in the wealthy suburbs of Perth. The driver looks like
>>> some gym junkie on steroids, probably got shrunken genitals.
>>
>>
>> Everyone is buying them?
>> https://www.harrisonftrucks.com.au/all-stock/view/2018-Ford-F450/28830937
>> At in excess of $250k for a 5yr old used F450 its hardly likely that
>> "everyone is buying" those vehicles.
>> Even the smaller models and the Chev and Dodge equivalents are very
>> expensive so they sell in very small numbers, maybe your shrunken
>> genitals are affecting your eye sight.
>>
> April 2023 top-sellers listed below:
>
> Ford Ranger
> Toyota Hilux
> Toyota RAV4
> Tesla Model Y
> Hyundai i30
> Mitsubishi Outlander
> Isuzu UTE D-Max
> Hyundai Tucson
> MG ZS
> Tesla Model 3
>
> 3 utes in the top 10, and utes are getting progressively bigger.

*All* vehicles are getting progressively bigger, and have been for some
time. I was at my local shopping centre yesterday where a current Honda
Civic was parked next to a VY Commodore. Apart from the Civic being
unbelievably ugly, it was almost the same size as the Commy.

They were a small car once....

> In 2013, I went to the New York motor show, I stood in front of one of the
> utes (sorry trerks) on show, the bonnet came up to my nipples, and I
> thought thank god there is some sanity back in Australia, but recently,
> I got into the Mazda 3 at Woolies, there was a ute parked in front of
> me, the top of the bonnet was above my eye-line. Now that we don't build
> anything here we are getting the stuff mostly designed for the US where
> bigger is better is the mantra in just about anything. Big utes are the
> current fashion, some people need utes, some need big utes, but as a
> family car, I just don't see the point.

And you could say *exactly* the same thing about any vehicle currently
on the market. I don't see the point in Land Cruisers or MX5's, but some
people like them and that's *their* business.

What you're saying here isn't exactly true, as the current crop of utes
here aren't big sellers on the US market and never really have been.
Americans are more into the Ford F series, the Chevy Silverados and the
Dodge Rams, and the current crop of dual cab utes we know here are
"compact" models in the US. In fact not all of them are even offered on
the US market.

The current Ford Ranger is a case in point. It's *not* designed for the
US at all, but rather for the rest of the world and in fact was designed
right here in Australia. It's 4 biggest market areas are here, Africa,
Asia and Europe, and while Ford is looking to release the new Ranger on
the US market either late this year or early next it's difficult to see
how well it will do. The "compact" ute market has never been a big field
in America and Ford pulled out of it due to lack of sales 10 years ago....

> A couple of points, the market here for RAM utes/trucks has got to the
> point where they are talking about making factory built RHD models
> rather than converting them here.

Yeah, right :)

The Dodge Ram is certainly the most popular of the American pickups, but
they're not selling in *anywhere* near large enough numbers to have
their own production facility here. Their best month was 710 units in
November last year, and at that rate they'd go broke in about a week if
they tried to start local production :)
> Toyota believe that there is now a
> market here for the Tundra, it has been on sale in the US for more than
> a decade but was previously thought too big for the Australian market.

Time will tell.

They're already selling the Ram & Silverado here as low volume models,
and Ford is planning on releasing the F-150 here soon. There may me room
on the market for the Tundra, but it could be a costly fail for Toyota
as well. The American pickup segment is *very* niche and uber expensive,
and I don't expect *any* of them would sell in large enough numbers to
make it profitable for long.

Ram has been doing reasonably well for a while principally due to a lack
of alternatives, but that could change quite quickly.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 13/5/2023 4:07 am, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 12/05/2023 1:22 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 12/5/2023 11:53 am, Ozix wrote:
>>> Maybe a valid excuse if you have to tow large boat/caravan, but too
>>> many in the city. There is a shiny new F-450 that parks illegally at
>>> various shops in the wealthy suburbs of Perth. The driver looks like
>>> some gym junkie on steroids, probably got shrunken genitals.
>>
>>
>> Everyone is buying them?
>> https://www.harrisonftrucks.com.au/all-stock/view/2018-Ford-F450/28830937
>> At in excess of $250k for a 5yr old used F450 its hardly likely that
>> "everyone is buying" those vehicles.
>> Even the smaller models and the Chev and Dodge equivalents are very
>> expensive so they sell in very small numbers, maybe your shrunken
>> genitals are affecting your eye sight.
>>
> April 2023 top-sellers listed below:
>
> Ford Ranger
> Toyota Hilux
> Toyota RAV4
> Tesla Model Y
> Hyundai i30
> Mitsubishi Outlander
> Isuzu UTE D-Max
> Hyundai Tucson
> MG ZS
> Tesla Model 3
>
> 3 utes in the top 10, and utes are getting progressively bigger. In
> 2013, I went to the New York motor show, I stood in front of one of the
> utes (sorry trerks) on show, the bonnet came up to my nipples, and I
> thought thank god there is some sanity back in Australia, but recently,
> I got into the Mazda 3 at Woolies, there was a ute parked in front of
> me, the top of the bonnet was above my eye-line. Now that we don't build
> anything here we are getting the stuff mostly designed for the US where
> bigger is better is the mantra in just about anything. Big utes are the
> current fashion, some people need utes, some need big utes, but as a
> family car, I just don't see the point.

Neither do I but large SUV's are just as if not more common, I've driven
plenty of large SUV's and utes and I don't get why people choose them
over a normal car but its their choice not mine.
Very possibly they choose a ute as a family car because of the FBT
benefits, as long as it has a one tonne or greater load capacity they
pay no FBT so if you have a business a ute makes sense, same as when a
boss gives someone a company vehicle, supply your employee a ute and
save FBT.
I recently suggested to a friends daughter in law that she should buy a
C Class wagon instead of a MB SUV to replace her 10yr old A Class but I
just looked at MB web site and they don't sell them anymore, don't know
if the car companies are just making what people want to buy or they are
pushing them in that direction by not making wagons anymore.

>
> A couple of points, the market here for RAM utes/trucks has got to the
> point where they are talking about making factory built RHD models
> rather than converting them here. Toyota believe that there is now a
> market here for the Tundra, it has been on sale in the US for more than
> a decade but was previously thought too big for the Australian market.
>

Vehicles in general are getting bigger, current Mazda 3 and Corolla
which used to be called small cars are both now bigger than my 20yr old
C240 which was called a medium sized car.
Ozix specifically mentioned an F450 which is a very large ute but its
also very rare as are other US "utes" although I agree they are becoming
more common but like I said they are very expensive so they are hardly
likely to replace most of the Hiluxes and Rangers.
Only time I find large vehicles to be a problem is when parked next to
one and I have to be extra careful when pulling out of a parking space
because I can't see around them but that issue is far from new.
Almost 40yrs ago I owned a one tonne Mazda van, I bet quite a few people
cursed me when I parked next to them because it blocked their view.

--
Daryl

On 13/5/2023 8:34 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 13/05/2023 4:07 am, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 12/05/2023 1:22 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 12/5/2023 11:53 am, Ozix wrote:
>>>> Maybe a valid excuse if you have to tow large boat/caravan, but too
>>>> many in the city. There is a shiny new F-450 that parks illegally at
>>>> various shops in the wealthy suburbs of Perth. The driver looks like
>>>> some gym junkie on steroids, probably got shrunken genitals.
>>>
>>>
>>> Everyone is buying them?
>>> https://www.harrisonftrucks.com.au/all-stock/view/2018-Ford-F450/28830937
>>> At in excess of $250k for a 5yr old used F450 its hardly likely that
>>> "everyone is buying" those vehicles.
>>> Even the smaller models and the Chev and Dodge equivalents are very
>>> expensive so they sell in very small numbers, maybe your shrunken
>>> genitals are affecting your eye sight.
>>>
>> April 2023 top-sellers listed below:
>>
>> Ford Ranger
>> Toyota Hilux
>> Toyota RAV4
>> Tesla Model Y
>> Hyundai i30
>> Mitsubishi Outlander
>> Isuzu UTE D-Max
>> Hyundai Tucson
>> MG ZS
>> Tesla Model 3
>>
>> 3 utes in the top 10, and utes are getting progressively bigger.
>
> *All* vehicles are getting progressively bigger, and have been for some
> time. I was at my local shopping centre yesterday where a current Honda
> Civic was parked next to a VY Commodore. Apart from the Civic being
> unbelievably ugly, it was almost the same size as the Commy.
>
> They were a small car once....
>
>> In 2013, I went to the New York motor show, I stood in front of one of
>> the utes (sorry trerks) on show, the bonnet came up to my nipples, and
>> I thought thank god there is some sanity back in Australia, but
>> recently, I got into the Mazda 3 at Woolies, there was a ute parked in
>> front of me, the top of the bonnet was above my eye-line. Now that we
>> don't build anything here we are getting the stuff mostly designed for
>> the US where bigger is better is the mantra in just about anything.
>> Big utes are the current fashion, some people need utes, some need big
>> utes, but as a family car, I just don't see the point.
>
> And you could say *exactly* the same thing about any vehicle currently
> on the market. I don't see the point in Land Cruisers or MX5's, but some
> people like them and that's *their* business.
>
> What you're saying here isn't exactly true, as the current crop of utes
> here aren't big sellers on the US market and never really have been.
> Americans are more into the Ford F series, the Chevy Silverados and the
> Dodge Rams, and the current crop of dual cab utes we know here are
> "compact" models in the US. In fact not all of them are even offered on
> the US market.
>
> The current Ford Ranger is a case in point. It's *not* designed for the
> US at all, but rather for the rest of the world and in fact was designed
> right here in Australia. It's 4 biggest market areas are here, Africa,
> Asia and Europe, and while Ford is looking to release the new Ranger on
> the US market either late this year or early next it's difficult to see
> how well it will do. The "compact" ute market has never been a big field
> in America and Ford pulled out of it due to lack of sales 10 years ago....
>
>
>> A couple of points, the market here for RAM utes/trucks has got to the
>> point where they are talking about making factory built RHD models
>> rather than converting them here.
>
> Yeah, right :)
>
> The Dodge Ram is certainly the most popular of the American pickups, but
> they're not selling in *anywhere* near large enough numbers to have
> their own production facility here. Their best month was 710 units in
> November last year, and at that rate they'd go broke in about a week if
> they tried to start local production :)
>  > Toyota believe that there is now a
>> market here for the Tundra, it has been on sale in the US for more
>> than a decade but was previously thought too big for the Australian
>> market.
>
> Time will tell.
>
> They're already selling the Ram & Silverado here as low volume models,
> and Ford is planning on releasing the F-150 here soon. There may me room
> on the market for the Tundra, but it could be a costly fail for Toyota
> as well. The American pickup segment is *very* niche and uber expensive,
> and I don't expect *any* of them would sell in large enough numbers to
> make it profitable for long.
>
> Ram has been doing reasonably well for a while principally due to a lack
> of alternatives, but that could change quite quickly.
>
>
Dodge have been spending quite a bit on advertising so its no surprise
that their sales have increased.
A mate tows his large caravan with a Landcruiser ute which he doesn't
particularly like but he's yet to find an affordable alternative that is
anywhere near as reliable as the Toyota.
Larger utes such as the Ram tow very well but apart from being expensive
to buy they are no where near as reliable and sourcing parts can be a
nightmare outside of big cities, he's told me of people being stranded
for weeks in remote towns waiting for parts for their US made vehicles.

--
Daryl

On 13/5/2023 3:44 am, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 12/05/2023 2:51 pm, Xeno wrote:
>
>> The above from a clown whose own ego stroking is used and clapped out
>> Porsche’s and Benz’s in an effort to conjure up the *image* of wealth.
>> Sad!
>
> Oh the spite. "an effort to conjure up the *image* of wealth" you must
> be desperate to make a stupid statement like that.
>
Just telling it like it is.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 13/5/2023 4:07 am, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 12/05/2023 1:22 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 12/5/2023 11:53 am, Ozix wrote:
>>> Maybe a valid excuse if you have to tow large boat/caravan, but too
>>> many in the city. There is a shiny new F-450 that parks illegally at
>>> various shops in the wealthy suburbs of Perth. The driver looks like
>>> some gym junkie on steroids, probably got shrunken genitals.
>>
>>
>> Everyone is buying them?
>> https://www.harrisonftrucks.com.au/all-stock/view/2018-Ford-F450/28830937
>> At in excess of $250k for a 5yr old used F450 its hardly likely that
>> "everyone is buying" those vehicles.
>> Even the smaller models and the Chev and Dodge equivalents are very
>> expensive so they sell in very small numbers, maybe your shrunken
>> genitals are affecting your eye sight.
>>
> April 2023 top-sellers listed below:
>
> Ford Ranger
> Toyota Hilux
> Toyota RAV4
> Tesla Model Y
> Hyundai i30
> Mitsubishi Outlander
> Isuzu UTE D-Max
> Hyundai Tucson
> MG ZS
> Tesla Model 3
>
> 3 utes in the top 10, and utes are getting progressively bigger. In
> 2013, I went to the New York motor show, I stood in front of one of the
> utes (sorry trerks) on show, the bonnet came up to my nipples, and I
> thought thank god there is some sanity back in Australia, but recently,
> I got into the Mazda 3 at Woolies, there was a ute parked in front of
> me, the top of the bonnet was above my eye-line. Now that we don't build
> anything here we are getting the stuff mostly designed for the US where
> bigger is better is the mantra in just about anything. Big utes are the
> current fashion, some people need utes, some need big utes, but as a
> family car, I just don't see the point.
>
> A couple of points, the market here for RAM utes/trucks has got to the
> point where they are talking about making factory built RHD models
> rather than converting them here. Toyota believe that there is now a
> market here for the Tundra, it has been on sale in the US for more than
> a decade but was previously thought too big for the Australian market.
>
So it does indeed appear that "everyone" is buying them. Thanks for
confirming.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 13/5/2023 8:14 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 13/05/2023 3:44 am, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 12/05/2023 2:51 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>
>>> The above from a clown whose own ego stroking is used and clapped out
>>> Porsche’s and Benz’s in an effort to conjure up the *image* of wealth.
>>> Sad!
>>
>> Oh the spite. "an effort to conjure up the *image* of wealth" you must
>> be desperate to make a stupid statement like that.
>
> You're talking to a bloke who's "toy" is an old poverty pack Corolla. It
> doesn't get any sadder than that.
>
I buy what is suitable for my needs and I value reliability.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 13/5/2023 8:34 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 13/05/2023 4:07 am, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 12/05/2023 1:22 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 12/5/2023 11:53 am, Ozix wrote:
>>>> Maybe a valid excuse if you have to tow large boat/caravan, but too
>>>> many in the city. There is a shiny new F-450 that parks illegally at
>>>> various shops in the wealthy suburbs of Perth. The driver looks like
>>>> some gym junkie on steroids, probably got shrunken genitals.
>>>
>>>
>>> Everyone is buying them?
>>> https://www.harrisonftrucks.com.au/all-stock/view/2018-Ford-F450/28830937
>>> At in excess of $250k for a 5yr old used F450 its hardly likely that
>>> "everyone is buying" those vehicles.
>>> Even the smaller models and the Chev and Dodge equivalents are very
>>> expensive so they sell in very small numbers, maybe your shrunken
>>> genitals are affecting your eye sight.
>>>
>> April 2023 top-sellers listed below:
>>
>> Ford Ranger
>> Toyota Hilux
>> Toyota RAV4
>> Tesla Model Y
>> Hyundai i30
>> Mitsubishi Outlander
>> Isuzu UTE D-Max
>> Hyundai Tucson
>> MG ZS
>> Tesla Model 3
>>
>> 3 utes in the top 10, and utes are getting progressively bigger.
>
> *All* vehicles are getting progressively bigger, and have been for some
> time. I was at my local shopping centre yesterday where a current Honda
> Civic was parked next to a VY Commodore. Apart from the Civic being
> unbelievably ugly, it was almost the same size as the Commy.
>
> They were a small car once....
>
>> In 2013, I went to the New York motor show, I stood in front of one of
>> the utes (sorry trerks) on show, the bonnet came up to my nipples, and
>> I thought thank god there is some sanity back in Australia, but
>> recently, I got into the Mazda 3 at Woolies, there was a ute parked in
>> front of me, the top of the bonnet was above my eye-line. Now that we
>> don't build anything here we are getting the stuff mostly designed for
>> the US where bigger is better is the mantra in just about anything.
>> Big utes are the current fashion, some people need utes, some need big
>> utes, but as a family car, I just don't see the point.
>
> And you could say *exactly* the same thing about any vehicle currently
> on the market. I don't see the point in Land Cruisers or MX5's, but some
> people like them and that's *their* business.

You don't see the point in a lot of things - except lying - and you do
that a lot.
>
> What you're saying here isn't exactly true, as the current crop of utes
> here aren't big sellers on the US market and never really have been.
> Americans are more into the Ford F series, the Chevy Silverados and the
> Dodge Rams, and the current crop of dual cab utes we know here are
> "compact" models in the US. In fact not all of them are even offered on
> the US market.

Please read for comprehension. I know it is difficult for you but please
do try.
>
> The current Ford Ranger is a case in point. It's *not* designed for the
> US at all, but rather for the rest of the world and in fact was designed
> right here in Australia. It's 4 biggest market areas are here, Africa,
> Asia and Europe, and while Ford is looking to release the new Ranger on
> the US market either late this year or early next it's difficult to see
> how well it will do. The "compact" ute market has never been a big field
> in America and Ford pulled out of it due to lack of sales 10 years ago....
>
>
>> A couple of points, the market here for RAM utes/trucks has got to the
>> point where they are talking about making factory built RHD models
>> rather than converting them here.
>
> Yeah, right :)

There are a few big'uns running round up here now - getting popular.
>
> The Dodge Ram is certainly the most popular of the American pickups, but
> they're not selling in *anywhere* near large enough numbers to have
> their own production facility here. Their best month was 710 units in

Factory built - *in the US*. No mention was made of a production
facility here. You really are shit at comprehension, aren't you?

> November last year, and at that rate they'd go broke in about a week if
> they tried to start local production :)

FFS, no mention of local production was made. Factory built RHD models
as in made in the *US Factory* alongside LHD models currently being
made. Much cheaper to make them in a factory rather than a local
conversion. Is that concept too hard for you to grasp?

>  > Toyota believe that there is now a
>> market here for the Tundra, it has been on sale in the US for more
>> than a decade but was previously thought too big for the Australian
>> market.
>
> Time will tell.
>
> They're already selling the Ram & Silverado here as low volume models,
> and Ford is planning on releasing the F-150 here soon. There may me room
> on the market for the Tundra, but it could be a costly fail for Toyota
> as well. The American pickup segment is *very* niche and uber expensive,
> and I don't expect *any* of them would sell in large enough numbers to
> make it profitable for long.

Are you for real?

https://www.aftermarketnews.com/number-of-suvs-pickup-trucks-on-the-road-holds-strong-according-to-experian-automotive/

Talking out of your arse again I see.

Pickups 20.57% market share, SUVs 11.42

I don't think I'd call those percentages *niche*.

But then, simple arithmetic was never your bag, eh?
>
> Ram has been doing reasonably well for a while principally due to a lack
> of alternatives, but that could change quite quickly.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 13/5/2023 9:58 am, Daryl wrote:
> On 13/5/2023 4:07 am, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 12/05/2023 1:22 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 12/5/2023 11:53 am, Ozix wrote:
>>>> Maybe a valid excuse if you have to tow large boat/caravan, but too
>>>> many in the city. There is a shiny new F-450 that parks illegally at
>>>> various shops in the wealthy suburbs of Perth. The driver looks like
>>>> some gym junkie on steroids, probably got shrunken genitals.
>>>
>>>
>>> Everyone is buying them?
>>> https://www.harrisonftrucks.com.au/all-stock/view/2018-Ford-F450/28830937
>>> At in excess of $250k for a 5yr old used F450 its hardly likely that
>>> "everyone is buying" those vehicles.
>>> Even the smaller models and the Chev and Dodge equivalents are very
>>> expensive so they sell in very small numbers, maybe your shrunken
>>> genitals are affecting your eye sight.
>>>
>> April 2023 top-sellers listed below:
>>
>> Ford Ranger
>> Toyota Hilux
>> Toyota RAV4
>> Tesla Model Y
>> Hyundai i30
>> Mitsubishi Outlander
>> Isuzu UTE D-Max
>> Hyundai Tucson
>> MG ZS
>> Tesla Model 3
>>
>> 3 utes in the top 10, and utes are getting progressively bigger. In
>> 2013, I went to the New York motor show, I stood in front of one of
>> the utes (sorry trerks) on show, the bonnet came up to my nipples, and
>> I thought thank god there is some sanity back in Australia, but
>> recently, I got into the Mazda 3 at Woolies, there was a ute parked in
>> front of me, the top of the bonnet was above my eye-line. Now that we
>> don't build anything here we are getting the stuff mostly designed for
>> the US where bigger is better is the mantra in just about anything.
>> Big utes are the current fashion, some people need utes, some need big
>> utes, but as a family car, I just don't see the point.
>
> Neither do I but large SUV's are just as if not more common, I've driven
> plenty of large SUV's and utes and I don't get why people choose them
> over a normal car but its their choice not mine.
> Very possibly they choose a ute as a family car because of the FBT
> benefits, as long as it has a one tonne or greater load capacity they
> pay no FBT so if you have a business a ute makes sense, same as when a
> boss gives someone a company vehicle, supply your employee a ute and
> save FBT.
> I recently suggested to a friends daughter in law that she should buy a
> C Class wagon instead of a MB SUV to replace her 10yr old A Class but I
> just looked at MB web site and they don't sell them anymore, don't know
> if the car companies are just making what people want to buy or they are
> pushing them in that direction by not making wagons anymore.
>
Car manufacturers will make what people want. People decide with their
wallets and that's why Commodores and Falcons disappeared here.
>>
>> A couple of points, the market here for RAM utes/trucks has got to the
>> point where they are talking about making factory built RHD models
>> rather than converting them here. Toyota believe that there is now a
>> market here for the Tundra, it has been on sale in the US for more
>> than a decade but was previously thought too big for the Australian
>> market.
>>
>
> Vehicles in general are getting bigger, current Mazda 3 and Corolla
> which used to be called small cars are both now bigger than my 20yr old
> C240 which was called a medium sized car.
> Ozix specifically mentioned an F450 which is a very large ute but its
> also very rare as are other US "utes" although I agree they are becoming
> more common but like I said they are very expensive so they are hardly
> likely to replace most of the Hiluxes and Rangers.
> Only time I find large vehicles to be a problem is when parked next to
> one and I have to be extra careful when pulling out of a parking space
> because I can't see around them but that issue is far from new.
> Almost 40yrs ago I owned a one tonne Mazda van, I bet quite a few people
> cursed me when I parked next to them because it blocked their view.
>
>

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 13/5/2023 10:09 am, Daryl wrote:
> On 13/5/2023 8:34 am, Noddy wrote:
>> On 13/05/2023 4:07 am, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 12/05/2023 1:22 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 12/5/2023 11:53 am, Ozix wrote:
>>>>> Maybe a valid excuse if you have to tow large boat/caravan, but too
>>>>> many in the city. There is a shiny new F-450 that parks illegally
>>>>> at various shops in the wealthy suburbs of Perth. The driver looks
>>>>> like some gym junkie on steroids, probably got shrunken genitals.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Everyone is buying them?
>>>> https://www.harrisonftrucks.com.au/all-stock/view/2018-Ford-F450/28830937
>>>> At in excess of $250k for a 5yr old used F450 its hardly likely that
>>>> "everyone is buying" those vehicles.
>>>> Even the smaller models and the Chev and Dodge equivalents are very
>>>> expensive so they sell in very small numbers, maybe your shrunken
>>>> genitals are affecting your eye sight.
>>>>
>>> April 2023 top-sellers listed below:
>>>
>>> Ford Ranger
>>> Toyota Hilux
>>> Toyota RAV4
>>> Tesla Model Y
>>> Hyundai i30
>>> Mitsubishi Outlander
>>> Isuzu UTE D-Max
>>> Hyundai Tucson
>>> MG ZS
>>> Tesla Model 3
>>>
>>> 3 utes in the top 10, and utes are getting progressively bigger.
>>
>> *All* vehicles are getting progressively bigger, and have been for
>> some time. I was at my local shopping centre yesterday where a current
>> Honda Civic was parked next to a VY Commodore. Apart from the Civic
>> being unbelievably ugly, it was almost the same size as the Commy.
>>
>> They were a small car once....
>>
>>> In 2013, I went to the New York motor show, I stood in front of one
>>> of the utes (sorry trerks) on show, the bonnet came up to my nipples,
>>> and I thought thank god there is some sanity back in Australia, but
>>> recently, I got into the Mazda 3 at Woolies, there was a ute parked
>>> in front of me, the top of the bonnet was above my eye-line. Now that
>>> we don't build anything here we are getting the stuff mostly designed
>>> for the US where bigger is better is the mantra in just about
>>> anything. Big utes are the current fashion, some people need utes,
>>> some need big utes, but as a family car, I just don't see the point.
>>
>> And you could say *exactly* the same thing about any vehicle currently
>> on the market. I don't see the point in Land Cruisers or MX5's, but
>> some people like them and that's *their* business.
>>
>> What you're saying here isn't exactly true, as the current crop of
>> utes here aren't big sellers on the US market and never really have
>> been. Americans are more into the Ford F series, the Chevy Silverados
>> and the Dodge Rams, and the current crop of dual cab utes we know here
>> are "compact" models in the US. In fact not all of them are even
>> offered on the US market.
>>
>> The current Ford Ranger is a case in point. It's *not* designed for
>> the US at all, but rather for the rest of the world and in fact was
>> designed right here in Australia. It's 4 biggest market areas are
>> here, Africa, Asia and Europe, and while Ford is looking to release
>> the new Ranger on the US market either late this year or early next
>> it's difficult to see how well it will do. The "compact" ute market
>> has never been a big field in America and Ford pulled out of it due to
>> lack of sales 10 years ago....
>>
>>
>>> A couple of points, the market here for RAM utes/trucks has got to
>>> the point where they are talking about making factory built RHD
>>> models rather than converting them here.
>>
>> Yeah, right :)
>>
>> The Dodge Ram is certainly the most popular of the American pickups,
>> but they're not selling in *anywhere* near large enough numbers to
>> have their own production facility here. Their best month was 710
>> units in November last year, and at that rate they'd go broke in about
>> a week if they tried to start local production :)
>>   > Toyota believe that there is now a
>>> market here for the Tundra, it has been on sale in the US for more
>>> than a decade but was previously thought too big for the Australian
>>> market.
>>
>> Time will tell.
>>
>> They're already selling the Ram & Silverado here as low volume models,
>> and Ford is planning on releasing the F-150 here soon. There may me
>> room on the market for the Tundra, but it could be a costly fail for
>> Toyota as well. The American pickup segment is *very* niche and uber
>> expensive, and I don't expect *any* of them would sell in large enough
>> numbers to make it profitable for long.
>>
>> Ram has been doing reasonably well for a while principally due to a
>> lack of alternatives, but that could change quite quickly.
>>
>>
> Dodge have been spending quite a bit on advertising so its no surprise
> that their sales have increased.
> A mate tows his large caravan with a Landcruiser ute which he doesn't
> particularly like but he's yet to find an affordable alternative that is
> anywhere near as reliable as the Toyota.

Ah, a choice made on Toyota reliability! LOL

> Larger utes such as the Ram tow very well but apart from being expensive
> to buy they are no where near as reliable and sourcing parts can be a
> nightmare outside of big cities, he's told me of people being stranded
> for weeks in remote towns waiting for parts for their US made vehicles.

No different with *anything* not considered *mainstream*.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 13/05/2023 11:02 am, Xeno wrote:

> I buy what is suitable for my needs.

Dullness?