Took just over an hour for both. Same fitter, pretty chatty chappie.]]For
some reason didn't like the fuses that prepended the existing meter, but
worked with them.

All up and running now - with the obligatory 2 week wait for gas to start
reading (I have no idea !).

One thing which I was mildly surprised at was that contrary to something
I picked up in my youth, meters are not required to be changed every 10
years.

I am also under no illusion that Octopus will just throw the old meters
away without any testing. Which slightly saddens me as I could have been
arranging my own 50% discount for years without their knowing.

Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
>
> One thing which I was mildly surprised at was that contrary to something
> I picked up in my youth, meters are not required to be changed every 10
> years.
>
I think it's just another way for the suppliers intermediaries to
persuade us that smart meters are a 'good thing'.

--
Chris Green
·

On 26-Apr-24 19:17, Chris Green wrote:
> Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
>>
>> One thing which I was mildly surprised at was that contrary to something
>> I picked up in my youth, meters are not required to be changed every 10
>> years.
>>
> I think it's just another way for the suppliers intermediaries to
> persuade us that smart meters are a 'good thing'.

Since they (dumb and smart) are a measuring device, there is a period of
time for which their calibration is valid. That was always (AFAIK) 10
years.
In the past, energy suppliers haven't usually bothered to replace an out
of date meter which doesn't seem to be causing any problems, but that
was pragmatism.

--
Sam Plusnet

Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
> Since they (dumb and smart) are a measuring device, there is a period of
> time for which their calibration is valid. That was always (AFAIK) 10
> years.
> In the past, energy suppliers haven't usually bothered to replace an out
> of date meter which doesn't seem to be causing any problems, but that
> was pragmatism.

It's likely that the suppliers have some idea of calibration drift, ie they
know the calibration can drift (according to some statistical model) by X%
per year. They have certain standards that they must meet, eg the meter
must be accurate to within 0.5%, and so if the calibration drift is 0.05%pa
then they meet that standard by recalibrating every 10 years.

However it's possible that mechanical and electronic meters have different
calibration stability: eg the spinning metal disc loses calibration as its
bearings get sticky, while the electronic meter's current sense resistor may
age. The manufacturer's datasheet may have some specification for this.

So the figure of 10 years isn't set in stone, it'll depend on the numbers.
Additionally the supplier may load the measurement in the customer's favour
- like the greengrocer's scales are allowed to report things underweight but
never over. If you're prepared to accept the customer underpaying for their
usage then you can buy yourself a lot of time without needing to
recalibrate. You don't get the full revenue from the customer but you save
money swapping meters.

Theo

On 26/04/2024 17:24, Jethro_uk wrote:

> One thing which I was mildly surprised at was that contrary to something
> I picked up in my youth, meters are not required to be changed every 10
> years.

Long before smart meters the industry had a target of replacing meters
every 10 years, although this target was seldom met. I had a friend who
worked for BG and was responsible for arranging appointments for these
meter replacements. What BG tended to do was to blitz one area at a time
and bring in contractors to support the local BG staff. I was in one
house 20+ years before I had an old meter replaced under this scheme.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 26/04/2024 23:00, Theo wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>> Since they (dumb and smart) are a measuring device, there is a period of
>> time for which their calibration is valid. That was always (AFAIK) 10
>> years.
>> In the past, energy suppliers haven't usually bothered to replace an out
>> of date meter which doesn't seem to be causing any problems, but that
>> was pragmatism.
>
> It's likely that the suppliers have some idea of calibration drift, ie they
> know the calibration can drift (according to some statistical model) by X%
> per year. They have certain standards that they must meet, eg the meter
> must be accurate to within 0.5%, and so if the calibration drift is 0.05%pa
> then they meet that standard by recalibrating every 10 years.
>
> However it's possible that mechanical and electronic meters have different
> calibration stability: eg the spinning metal disc loses calibration as its
> bearings get sticky, while the electronic meter's current sense resistor may
> age. The manufacturer's datasheet may have some specification for this.
>
> So the figure of 10 years isn't set in stone, it'll depend on the numbers.
> Additionally the supplier may load the measurement in the customer's favour
> - like the greengrocer's scales are allowed to report things underweight but
> never over. If you're prepared to accept the customer underpaying for their
> usage then you can buy yourself a lot of time without needing to
> recalibrate. You don't get the full revenue from the customer but you save
> money swapping meters.

The wiki is interesting with respect to accuracy:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_meter#Accuracy>
Basically, the meters are allowed to over-read up to 2.5% and under-read
down to 3.5%.

I was trying to work out how an electromechanical meter could "drift"
into over-read over time, but couldn't see it. As you've mentioned,
sticky bearings might affect calibration, but wouldn't that always lead
to under-read? Fully electronic meters are a different kettle of fish
and, I guess, are equally as likely to go over or under.

On a related matter, do domestic electromechanical meters care about
power factor or things such as SMPS? Or do they "integrate" accurately
and always give a true power consumption over time no matter what is
using the power?

--
Jeff

On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 19:17:23 +0100
Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

> Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
> >
> > One thing which I was mildly surprised at was that contrary to
> > something I picked up in my youth, meters are not required to be
> > changed every 10 years.
> >
> I think it's just another way for the suppliers intermediaries to
> persuade us that smart meters are a 'good thing'.
>

Yes, a couple of years ago, BG insisted that my meter needed to be
replaced as it was out of calibration, and offered me the chance to
'upgrade' to a 'smart' meter. I refused the offer, and suddenly the
calibration issue disappeared.

--
Davey.

On 27/04/2024 08:16, alan_m wrote:
> What BG tended to do was to blitz one area at a time and bring in
> contractors to support the local BG staff.

Which is how smart meter swaps still happen, they blitz an area,
irrespective of the actual supplier.

On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 08:16:27 +0100, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 26/04/2024 17:24, Jethro_uk wrote:
>
>> One thing which I was mildly surprised at was that contrary to something
>> I picked up in my youth, meters are not required to be changed every 10
>> years.
>
>Long before smart meters the industry had a target of replacing meters
>every 10 years, although this target was seldom met. I had a friend who
>worked for BG and was responsible for arranging appointments for these
>meter replacements. What BG tended to do was to blitz one area at a time
>and bring in contractors to support the local BG staff. I was in one
>house 20+ years before I had an old meter replaced under this scheme.

My Ferranti electricity meter is 50 years old.

A couple of years ago Octopus started nagging me to have my GAS meter
replaced as its accuracy couldn't be guaranteed.

The gas meter is "only" 40 years old.

Of course they said it would HAVE to be a smart meter, and it was up
to me whether I wanted both done. A gas meter without its companion
would bot be very smart.

I ignored the letters and they stopped bothering me.

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On 4/27/2024 3:20 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 26/04/2024 23:00, Theo wrote:
>> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>> Since they (dumb and smart) are a measuring device, there is a period of
>>> time for which their calibration is valid.  That was always (AFAIK) 10
>>> years.
>>> In the past, energy suppliers haven't usually bothered to replace an out
>>> of date meter which doesn't seem to be causing any problems, but that
>>> was pragmatism.
>>
>> It's likely that the suppliers have some idea of calibration drift, ie they
>> know the calibration can drift (according to some statistical model) by X%
>> per year.  They have certain standards that they must meet, eg the meter
>> must be accurate to within 0.5%, and so if the calibration drift is 0.05%pa
>> then they meet that standard by recalibrating every 10 years.
>>
>> However it's possible that mechanical and electronic meters have different
>> calibration stability: eg the spinning metal disc loses calibration as its
>> bearings get sticky, while the electronic meter's current sense resistor may
>> age.  The manufacturer's datasheet may have some specification for this.
>>
>> So the figure of 10 years isn't set in stone, it'll depend on the numbers.
>> Additionally the supplier may load the measurement in the customer's favour
>> - like the greengrocer's scales are allowed to report things underweight but
>> never over.  If you're prepared to accept the customer underpaying for their
>> usage then you can buy yourself a lot of time without needing to
>> recalibrate.  You don't get the full revenue from the customer but you save
>> money swapping meters.
>
> The wiki is interesting with respect to accuracy:
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_meter#Accuracy>
> Basically, the meters are allowed to over-read up to 2.5% and under-read down to 3.5%.
>
> I was trying to work out how an electromechanical meter could "drift" into over-read over time, but couldn't see it. As you've mentioned, sticky bearings might affect calibration, but wouldn't that always lead to under-read? Fully electronic meters are a different kettle of fish and, I guess, are equally as likely to go over or under.
>
> On a related matter, do domestic electromechanical meters care about power factor or things such as SMPS? Or do they "integrate" accurately and always give a true power consumption over time no matter what is using the power?
>

The digital meters use a current shunt for measuring current flow.
The shunt would be made of something stable, like manganin or Zeronel.
If you used a piece of copper, the thermal coefficient of copper is
very high, and it would form a lousy basis for building a meter.
You could measure the instantaneous temperature of the copper and
compensate for the error, but it just would not be the same.

The meter uses a couple ADC to convert from analog to digital. The
converters run at 500KHz. The maths are done in real time. While a mechanical
meter used by consumers measures kilowatts (real component), the digital
meter can measure both real and reactive power. The power company may
only bill on real power, so the reactive power is ignored for billing
purposes.

The electromechanical meter is a motor, and it likely has limits
as to what it can do with harmonic consumption. The digital meter
is not limited in the same way.

This is an example of a current shunt. It has four screws. The large
screws are for the current connections. In the sixth picture down,
are the small screws for voltage-developed measurement. The selection
of the shunt, is a compromise between elevated operating temperature,
and the developed voltage. 100mV full scale, is a good number for
the converter to use (as going much lower, attempts to apply "gain"
to the voltage can throw off the metrology.

https://www.amazon.ca/Electrical-Ammeter-Current-Resistor-Resistance/dp/B08FJCDTG9?th=1

The shunt could be thrown off, by corrosion over the years, and I don't
know if there is any observed changes like that, in meters of this type.
Whereas the bearings on the motor-based meter, will eventually be
a concern (the meter back home stopped rotating, after enough
years had passed and no "preemptive" replacement had been done
by the supplier).

If the real-time reporting system is working on the digital meter,
it is useful for network surveillance, such as starting a truck roll
as soon as a power failure occurs in a neighbourhood. What is weird here,
is at first, that scheme was working (I no longer needed to phone, to get
the power restored -- service time as short as 20 minutes). The last time
power went off, *I* had to phone to get service. None of my neighbours
having used their smartphones to report the outage. It was still some
time after I called, before the truck showed up. And the two crew had
to clear foliage (tree trimming) in the dark, near where the tree had
shorted the line. A crew just came out a few days ago, to do tree trimming
on that property, and clear away more of the line. The more things change,
the more they remain the same.

Paul

On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 20:57:54 +0100, Graham. wrote:

> Of course they said it would HAVE to be a smart meter, and it was up to
> me whether I wanted both done. A gas meter without its companion would
> not be very smart.

Yes, I wasn't aware until the guy was putting his tools away that the gas
meter is relaying through the electricity meter.

I can just about see some logic there. However adding the stability of a
wireless connection into the mix seems to be extra complexity for very
little advantages. I appreciate I may not be typical but my meters are
40ft apart with 4 solid brick walls between them.

I look forward with interest as to whether the gas meter ever starts
reading.

Jethro_uk wrote:

> I look forward with interest as to whether the gas meter ever starts
> reading.

My SMETS1 meters were fitted a decade ago, they work in the same fashion

Gas--->Elec-+->Supplier
|
+->Display

They started talking immediately, I can see no reason why SMETS2
shouldn't be able to do that. Of course, the Supplier bit stopped
working as soon as I changed supplier.

On 26/04/2024 23:00, Theo wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>> Since they (dumb and smart) are a measuring device, there is a period of
>> time for which their calibration is valid. That was always (AFAIK) 10
>> years.
>> In the past, energy suppliers haven't usually bothered to replace an out
>> of date meter which doesn't seem to be causing any problems, but that
>> was pragmatism.
>
> It's likely that the suppliers have some idea of calibration drift, ie they
> know the calibration can drift (according to some statistical model) by X%
> per year. They have certain standards that they must meet, eg the meter
> must be accurate to within 0.5%, and so if the calibration drift is 0.05%pa
> then they meet that standard by recalibrating every 10 years.
>
> However it's possible that mechanical and electronic meters have different
> calibration stability: eg the spinning metal disc loses calibration as its
> bearings get sticky, while the electronic meter's current sense resistor may
> age. The manufacturer's datasheet may have some specification for this.
>
> So the figure of 10 years isn't set in stone, it'll depend on the numbers.
> Additionally the supplier may load the measurement in the customer's favour
> - like the greengrocer's scales are allowed to report things underweight but
> never over. If you're prepared to accept the customer underpaying for their
> usage then you can buy yourself a lot of time without needing to
> recalibrate. You don't get the full revenue from the customer but you save
> money swapping meters.

At the Electricity Board where I worked, the electro mechanical meters
were brought back to the workshop and recalibrated before being
re-issued. They only got thrown away if they could not be recalibrated
properly.

--
Colin Bignell

On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 10:02:33 -0000 (UTC)
Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 20:57:54 +0100, Graham. wrote:
>
> > Of course they said it would HAVE to be a smart meter, and it was
> > up to me whether I wanted both done. A gas meter without its
> > companion would not be very smart.
>
> Yes, I wasn't aware until the guy was putting his tools away that the
> gas meter is relaying through the electricity meter.
>
> I can just about see some logic there. However adding the stability
> of a wireless connection into the mix seems to be extra complexity
> for very little advantages. I appreciate I may not be typical but my
> meters are 40ft apart with 4 solid brick walls between them.
>
> I look forward with interest as to whether the gas meter ever starts
> reading.

What happens if you have, say. BG for gas supply and Eon for
electricity? Do they both report to Eon, who then passes the gas
reading to BG?

--
Davey.

Davey wrote:

> What happens if you have, say. BG for gas supply and Eon for
> electricity? Do they both report to Eon, who then passes the gas
> reading to BG?

Meters no longer report directly to the supplier, they report to DCC,
who make the readings available to the supplier, so presumably mixed
supply is possible?

<https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/about-dcc/>

On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 10:02:33 +0000, Jethro_uk wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 20:57:54 +0100, Graham. wrote:
>
>> Of course they said it would HAVE to be a smart meter, and it was up to
>> me whether I wanted both done. A gas meter without its companion would
>> not be very smart.
>
> Yes, I wasn't aware until the guy was putting his tools away that the
> gas meter is relaying through the electricity meter.
>
> I can just about see some logic there. However adding the stability of a
> wireless connection into the mix seems to be extra complexity for very
> little advantages. I appreciate I may not be typical but my meters are
> 40ft apart with 4 solid brick walls between them.
>
> I look forward with interest as to whether the gas meter ever starts
> reading.

Quick update is that today (2 days after) the gas readings are coming
through.

WOuld be nice if there was a web display I could tap into. Time to re-
investigate the curl command they provided a while back.

On 28/04/2024 14:16, Jethro_uk wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 10:02:33 +0000, Jethro_uk wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 20:57:54 +0100, Graham. wrote:
>>
>>> Of course they said it would HAVE to be a smart meter, and it was up to
>>> me whether I wanted both done. A gas meter without its companion would
>>> not be very smart.
>>
>> Yes, I wasn't aware until the guy was putting his tools away that the
>> gas meter is relaying through the electricity meter.
>>
>> I can just about see some logic there. However adding the stability of a
>> wireless connection into the mix seems to be extra complexity for very
>> little advantages. I appreciate I may not be typical but my meters are
>> 40ft apart with 4 solid brick walls between them.
>>
>> I look forward with interest as to whether the gas meter ever starts
>> reading.
>
> Quick update is that today (2 days after) the gas readings are coming
> through.
>
> WOuld be nice if there was a web display I could tap into. Time to re-
> investigate the curl command they provided a while back.

Are you with Octopus? If so there will be a web display for both
electricity and gas, also available on a mobile phone via their app and
a monthly download in a CVS format. You can also request a free Octopus
mini to give near real time (30/60 second update) electricity readings
on you smartphone.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 28/04/2024 11:02, Jethro_uk wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 20:57:54 +0100, Graham. wrote:
>
>> Of course they said it would HAVE to be a smart meter, and it was up to
>> me whether I wanted both done. A gas meter without its companion would
>> not be very smart.
>
> Yes, I wasn't aware until the guy was putting his tools away that the gas
> meter is relaying through the electricity meter.
>
> I can just about see some logic there. However adding the stability of a
> wireless connection into the mix seems to be extra complexity for very
> little advantages.

They work this way as, in general, gas meters don't have an electricity
supply nearby, so they rely on a 10-year battery which is enough to
power a low power transmitter to send the reading to the electricity
meter every 30 minutes, but not enough to power a cellphone (or other)
transmitter to send the readings to the supplier.

--
Max Demian

On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 13:48:48 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

> Davey wrote:
>
> > What happens if you have, say. BG for gas supply and Eon for
> > electricity? Do they both report to Eon, who then passes the gas
> > reading to BG?
>
> Meters no longer report directly to the supplier, they report to DCC,
> who make the readings available to the supplier, so presumably mixed
> supply is possible?
>
> <https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/about-dcc/>
>

Interesting, thanks.

But I wonder how they manage to do this:
"Meter readings: the DCC does not have access to individual meter
readings. These are encrypted and securely transported to energy
providers and distribution networks."

So does each meter encrypt its readings, before sending them to the
DCC, which then sends them on to the appropriate suppliers, so that the
suppliers can un-encrypt the readings?

Strange.

I also note this:
"When will the smart meter roll-out be complete?

The roll-out is forecast to be completed by 2025. Last year (2022), a
total of 6.3 million smart meters were connected to our network."

So this data was gathered in 2023. And they haven't succeeded in
persuading me to have 'smart' meters installed in three possible
service locations, in two buildings.
I have not yet seen why such a meter would benefit ME, I have no
solar, no Electric Vehicles, and certainly no Heat Pumps. They would
not work in my old, draughty house without re-piping and replacing the
whole heating system, and I doubt that I would get a sufficiently large
grant to cover it. Apart from which, it would be a waste of money.

--
Davey.

Jethro_uk wrote:
>Took just over an hour for both. Same fitter, pretty chatty chappie.]]For
>some reason didn't like the fuses that prepended the existing meter, but
>worked with them.
>
>All up and running now - with the obligatory 2 week wait for gas to start
>reading (I have no idea !).
>
>One thing which I was mildly surprised at was that contrary to something
>I picked up in my youth, meters are not required to be changed every 10
>years.
>
>I am also under no illusion that Octopus will just throw the old meters
>away without any testing. Which slightly saddens me as I could have been
>arranging my own 50% discount for years without their knowing.
How long did you wait before they fit the new smart meter for you?

Mine is out of battery and I reported to Octopus in early Feb. Now they still staid it needs few more weeks because all engineers are occupied.

--
Sent by Newsygroup
Newsgroup reader for iPhone
https://apps.apple.com/app/newsygroup/id6480019265

On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 08:29:34 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

> On 28/04/2024 00:57, Paul wrote:
>> On 4/27/2024 3:20 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>> On 26/04/2024 23:00, Theo wrote:
>>>> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>>>> Since they (dumb and smart) are a measuring device, there is a
>>>>> period of time for which their calibration is valid.  That was
>>>>> always (AFAIK) 10 years.
>>>>> In the past, energy suppliers haven't usually bothered to replace an
>>>>> out of date meter which doesn't seem to be causing any problems, but
>>>>> that was pragmatism.
>>>>
>>>> It's likely that the suppliers have some idea of calibration drift,
>>>> ie they know the calibration can drift (according to some statistical
>>>> model) by X% per year.  They have certain standards that they must
>>>> meet, eg the meter must be accurate to within 0.5%, and so if the
>>>> calibration drift is 0.05%pa then they meet that standard by
>>>> recalibrating every 10 years.
>>>>
>>>> However it's possible that mechanical and electronic meters have
>>>> different calibration stability: eg the spinning metal disc loses
>>>> calibration as its bearings get sticky, while the electronic meter's
>>>> current sense resistor may age.  The manufacturer's datasheet may
>>>> have some specification for this.
>>>>
>>>> So the figure of 10 years isn't set in stone, it'll depend on the
>>>> numbers. Additionally the supplier may load the measurement in the
>>>> customer's favour - like the greengrocer's scales are allowed to
>>>> report things underweight but never over.  If you're prepared to
>>>> accept the customer underpaying for their usage then you can buy
>>>> yourself a lot of time without needing to recalibrate.  You don't get
>>>> the full revenue from the customer but you save money swapping
>>>> meters.
>>>
>>> The wiki is interesting with respect to accuracy:
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_meter#Accuracy>
>>> Basically, the meters are allowed to over-read up to 2.5% and
>>> under-read down to 3.5%.
>>>
>>> I was trying to work out how an electromechanical meter could "drift"
>>> into over-read over time, but couldn't see it. As you've mentioned,
>>> sticky bearings might affect calibration, but wouldn't that always
>>> lead to under-read? Fully electronic meters are a different kettle of
>>> fish and, I guess, are equally as likely to go over or under.
>>>
>>> On a related matter, do domestic electromechanical meters care about
>>> power factor or things such as SMPS? Or do they "integrate" accurately
>>> and always give a true power consumption over time no matter what is
>>> using the power?
>>>
>>>
>> The digital meters use a current shunt for measuring current flow.
>> The shunt would be made of something stable, like manganin or Zeronel.
>> If you used a piece of copper, the thermal coefficient of copper is
>> very high, and it would form a lousy basis for building a meter.
>> You could measure the instantaneous temperature of the copper and
>> compensate for the error, but it just would not be the same.
>>
>> The meter uses a couple ADC to convert from analog to digital. The
>> converters run at 500KHz. The maths are done in real time. While a
>> mechanical meter used by consumers measures kilowatts (real component),
>> the digital meter can measure both real and reactive power. The power
>> company may only bill on real power, so the reactive power is ignored
>> for billing purposes.
>>
>> The electromechanical meter is a motor, and it likely has limits as to
>> what it can do with harmonic consumption. The digital meter is not
>> limited in the same way.
>>
>> This is an example of a current shunt. It has four screws. The large
>> screws are for the current connections. In the sixth picture down,
>> are the small screws for voltage-developed measurement. The selection
>> of the shunt, is a compromise between elevated operating temperature,
>> and the developed voltage. 100mV full scale, is a good number for the
>> converter to use (as going much lower, attempts to apply "gain"
>> to the voltage can throw off the metrology.
>>
>> https://www.amazon.ca/Electrical-Ammeter-Current-Resistor-Resistance/dp/
B08FJCDTG9?th=1
>>
>> The shunt could be thrown off, by corrosion over the years, and I don't
>> know if there is any observed changes like that, in meters of this
>> type.
>> Whereas the bearings on the motor-based meter, will eventually be a
>> concern (the meter back home stopped rotating, after enough years had
>> passed and no "preemptive" replacement had been done by the supplier).
>
> It's not the shunt which I'm concerned about, it's the "black box"
> electronics which use the shunt to measure power (ADC and whatever).
> Resistors or capacitors could go high or low; transistor gain might
> change over time, etc. Depending on how those changes affect the
> measurement the effect could be to show an increased or decreased power
> use.
>
> A more obvious question is "how would you know?", and that applies to
> analogue or digital meters. Without repeated real-time calibration,
> you'd never know. It's just one of those things we accept as being
> correct. I guess you could always fit your own in series with the
> utility suppliers one as a simple check, eg:
> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/TEW-Emlite-Direction-Connection-ECA2-MID/dp/
B0B2KR5RY2>

Did you get a display repeater for in the house viewing..? The guy that
fitted my smart meter said it wouldn't work, because my meter doesn't work
in smart mode, so I didn't get one.

On 28-Apr-24 19:53, L wrote:
> Jethro_uk wrote:
>> Took just over an hour for both. Same fitter, pretty chatty chappie.]]For
>> some reason didn't like the fuses that prepended the existing meter, but
>> worked with them.
>>
>> All up and running now - with the obligatory 2 week wait for gas to start
>> reading (I have no idea !).
>>
>> One thing which I was mildly surprised at was that contrary to something
>> I picked up in my youth, meters are not required to be changed every 10
>> years.
>>
>> I am also under no illusion that Octopus will just throw the old meters
>> away without any testing. Which slightly saddens me as I could have been
>> arranging my own 50% discount for years without their knowing.
> How long did you wait before they fit the new smart meter for you?
>
> Mine is out of battery and I reported to Octopus in early Feb. Now they still staid it needs few more weeks because all engineers are occupied.
>
Is there any way for you to monitor your energy used? How do Octopus
intend to bill you in the meantime?

(We don't have smart meters, and they would be pretty useless due to
topology - but I know we will end up with a pair at some point.)

--
Sam Plusnet

Sam Plusnet wrote:

> L wrote:
>
>> Mine is out of battery and I reported to Octopus in early Feb. Now
>> they still staid it needs few more weeks because all engineers are
>> occupied.
>
> How do Octopus intend to bill you in the meantime?
Presume they use average for previous year(s) and round-down generously?

My battery isn't dead yet after ~13 years.

In article <DuTXN.18360$ocy9.5843@fx06.iad>, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com>
wrote:
> On 28-Apr-24 19:53, L wrote:
> > Jethro_uk wrote:
> >> Took just over an hour for both. Same fitter, pretty chatty
> >> chappie.]]For some reason didn't like the fuses that prepended the
> >> existing meter, but worked with them.
> >>
> >> All up and running now - with the obligatory 2 week wait for gas to
> >> start reading (I have no idea !).
> >>
> >> One thing which I was mildly surprised at was that contrary to
> >> something I picked up in my youth, meters are not required to be
> >> changed every 10 years.
> >>
> >> I am also under no illusion that Octopus will just throw the old
> >> meters away without any testing. Which slightly saddens me as I could
> >> have been arranging my own 50% discount for years without their
> >> knowing.
> > How long did you wait before they fit the new smart meter for you?
> >
> > Mine is out of battery and I reported to Octopus in early Feb. Now they
> > still staid it needs few more weeks because all engineers are occupied.
> >
> Is there any way for you to monitor your energy used? How do Octopus
> intend to bill you in the meantime?

My smart meters still have dials. They could send a meter reading person.

> (We don't have smart meters, and they would be pretty useless due to
> topology - but I know we will end up with a pair at some point.)

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Sam Plusnet wrote:
>On 28-Apr-24 19:53, L wrote:
>> Jethro_uk wrote:
>>> Took just over an hour for both. Same fitter, pretty chatty chappie.]]For
>>> some reason didn't like the fuses that prepended the existing meter, but
>>> worked with them.
>>>
>>> All up and running now - with the obligatory 2 week wait for gas to start
>>> reading (I have no idea !).
>>>
>>> One thing which I was mildly surprised at was that contrary to something
>>> I picked up in my youth, meters are not required to be changed every 10
>>> years.
>>>
>>> I am also under no illusion that Octopus will just throw the old meters
>>> away without any testing. Which slightly saddens me as I could have been
>>> arranging my own 50% discount for years without their knowing.
>> How long did you wait before they fit the new smart meter for you?
>>
>> Mine is out of battery and I reported to Octopus in early Feb. Now they still staid it needs few more weeks because all engineers are occupied.
>>
>Is there any way for you to monitor your energy used? How do Octopus
>intend to bill you in the meantime?
>
>(We don't have smart meters, and they would be pretty useless due to
>topology - but I know we will end up with a pair at some point.)
>
>--
>Sam Plusnet
>
I used to use Octopus API to retrieve those usage data from home assistant. It has few hours lag though

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