I'm selling my Dad's (almost new) kiln on eBay
<https://www.rohde.eu/en/arts-and-crafts/products/gas-kilns/tg-series/tg-170>
I specified collection in person only, of course people are asking "can
it be collected by courier?"
It's near as damn it a metre cubed, and 150kg, so I think would fit on a
standard sized pallet ... but ...
1) I don't have a pallet
2) I worry about split liability if I obtain one, figure out how to
strap it down, then the buyer sends a pallet company to collect it, if
it get damaged in transit, etc
Should I amend the listing to include a delivered option, I suspect the
cost could be well over £100 depending on distance
Then add the price of a couple of ratchet straps to tie it down both
ways, and a king-size roll of "cling film" to wrap it, and I can choose
to insure it, then insist if they not collecting "in person" that they
must go for the pallet option done my way?
WWYD?

On 25/04/2024 18:41, Andy Burns wrote:
> I'm selling my Dad's (almost new) kiln on eBay
>
> <https://www.rohde.eu/en/arts-and-crafts/products/gas-kilns/tg-series/tg-170>
>
> I specified collection in person only, of course people are asking "can
> it be collected by courier?"
>
> It's near as damn it a metre cubed, and 150kg, so I think would fit on a
> standard sized pallet ... but ...
>
> 1) I don't have a pallet
>
> 2) I worry about split liability if I obtain one, figure out how to
> strap it down, then the buyer sends a pallet company to collect it, if
> it get damaged in transit, etc
>
> Should I amend the listing to include a delivered option, I suspect the
> cost could be well over £100 depending on distance
>
> Then add the price of a couple of ratchet straps to tie it down both
> ways, and a king-size roll of "cling film" to wrap it, and I can choose
> to insure it, then insist if they not collecting "in person" that they
> must go for the pallet option done my way?

https://www.shiply.com/

Would be my starting point, and tell any prospective buyer to get a
quote from them to do any appropriate packing etc.

My experience is that if you are willing to assist with palletisation
and arrange delivery you'll get a far better price.

Fredxx wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> I'm selling my Dad's (almost new) kiln on eBay
>> I specified collection in person only, of course people are asking
>> "can it be collected by courier?"
>
> https://www.shiply.com/
> Would be my starting point
Good suggestion, shifts all the hassle/responsibility to the buyer ...

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Fredxx wrote:
>
> > Andy Burns wrote:
> >
> >> I'm selling my Dad's (almost new) kiln on eBay
> >> I specified collection in person only, of course people are asking
> >> "can it be collected by courier?"
> >
> > https://www.shiply.com/
> > Would be my starting point
> Good suggestion, shifts all the hassle/responsibility to the buyer ...
Shiply seems to be a scam if you try to use it. They take no responsibility
for damage, but make you accept a quote without telling you who the courier
behind 'fred123' is. So you have no way to research if they're legit or
trustworthy, beyond the unattributed reviews on the site. ie standard tech
'platform': take money for not doing much and wash their hands of the
inevitable fraud.

I've used Anyvan who have a bit more sane T&C.

However I'd probably do what's suggested. Say the item is for collection but
list the ways you'll assist a courier they employ. eg you can arrange to
be home on the day of collection, if it's a 2 man lift you'll be one pair of
hands, etc. So many 'collection only' listings say nothing about how they
will facilitate collection, and it's a pain to message them especially if
the auction close is near.

I did this for a 1200 litre oil tank (big even for a pallet, although I
looked at pallet services). In the end someone local came with a pickup.

Theo

On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 10:19:16 +0100, Theo wrote:

> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>> [quoted text muted]
>
> Shiply seems to be a scam if you try to use it. They take no
> responsibility for damage, but make you accept a quote without telling
> you who the courier behind 'fred123' is.

Another one of these useless services that takes a %age for doing fuck
all.

I had an experience with "Parcels2Go" who charged me to ship 6 PCs to one
of our offices next day. One didn't arrive and it was "nothing to with
us, guv. Here's a phone number and you can discuss it with Hermes"

See also: Mobile phone contract resellers.

Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:
> Would be my starting point, and tell any prospective buyer to get a
> quote from them to do any appropriate packing etc.
>
> My experience is that if you are willing to assist with palletisation
> and arrange delivery you'll get a far better price.

That's generally true. Although for something this large it's hard to give
a national price - even if you exclude 'highlands and islands', the quote
from NW1 to NW2 is going to be less than the quote from Penzance to
Stranraer, even on a pallet network. To quote you really need the recipient
postcode and that's not something you know until after purchase (or if they
message you), so you can't advertise a fixed shipping cost in the listing.

I think you can list things with shipping as 'freight' with the recipient to
contact you for details. That might make it clearer you're willing to ship
without having to give a price. I'm not sure how that stands with buyer
protection if you make it clear in the listing organising the courier is the
buyer's responsibility.

(ebay may restrict the use of 'freight' to certain categories, so
perhaps it's not available for all listings)

Theo

Theo wrote:

> However I'd probably do what's suggested. Say the item is for collection but
> list the ways you'll assist a courier they employ. eg you can arrange to
> be home on the day of collection, if it's a 2 man lift you'll be one pair of
> hands, etc. So many 'collection only' listings say nothing about how they
> will facilitate collection, and it's a pain to message them especially if
> the auction close is near.

It's annoying that they wait until day 8 of 10, then say "can I send a
courier to collect?" ... It isn't located at my home, at this point I'm
tempted to say, I'll be there when arranged, if you're not coming in
person, make sure the people you send bring a
pallet/straps/pump-truck/tail-lift/trailer with them ...

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Theo wrote:
>
> > However I'd probably do what's suggested. Say the item is for collection but
> > list the ways you'll assist a courier they employ. eg you can arrange to
> > be home on the day of collection, if it's a 2 man lift you'll be one pair of
> > hands, etc. So many 'collection only' listings say nothing about how they
> > will facilitate collection, and it's a pain to message them especially if
> > the auction close is near.
>
> It's annoying that they wait until day 8 of 10, then say "can I send a
> courier to collect?" ... It isn't located at my home, at this point I'm
> tempted to say, I'll be there when arranged, if you're not coming in
> person, make sure the people you send bring a
> pallet/straps/pump-truck/tail-lift/trailer with them ...

If it's an auction, you have no idea what the pricing is going to be until
very close to the end. So it's a flaw of the ebay model that you can't
really decide which items are worth putting effort into until there's
basically no time to explore these questions. The same goes for inspection
in person: you want to go there, inspect, seal the deal and take it away -
you don't want to have to go home, bid (or not if the price gets too high),
possibly be outbid (so a wasted trip) or make another trip to collect.

It's probably doable if there are relatively few listings, because it's
worth putting effort in sending a few messages when you first see the
listing. If there are many, you can't really message dozens of sellers
asking the questions. That's why I say it's helpful to put the answers in
the listing so there's no need to wait for a reply to a message.

I tend to list things with fixed prices so everyone knows where they stand
rather than auctions, and just let them sit in the market until sold. That
way people can just turn up once and collect. Sometimes they buy on spec
then collect, sometimes they inspect and then buy on the spot, both of which
are fine. Even if 'collection' is a separate trip (won't fit in the
car/etc) by inspecting they are fully appraised of what's required.

Theo

Theo wrote:
> If it's an auction, you have no idea what the pricing is going to be until
> very close to the end. So it's a flaw of the ebay model that you can't
> really decide which items are worth putting effort into until there's
> basically no time to explore these questions. The same goes for inspection
Well this item has a starting price well into 4 figures, and has a good
number of views and watchers, I recognise that "collection only" limits
who will bid.
I had an item last week with a start price of £25 and "accepts offers"
which received no bids, but did receive an offer 10x the start price
from someone who could collect same day ...

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Theo wrote:
>
> > If it's an auction, you have no idea what the pricing is going to be until
> > very close to the end. So it's a flaw of the ebay model that you can't
> > really decide which items are worth putting effort into until there's
> > basically no time to explore these questions. The same goes for inspection
>
> Well this item has a starting price well into 4 figures, and has a good
> number of views and watchers, I recognise that "collection only" limits
> who will bid.

For that sort of big and expensive lump I'd expect the buyer to be a bit
more invested than if they're buying a pallet of flowerpots or whatever.
Shipping is not just transport but packing, loading and unloading at the
ends - they'll want to manouerve it into its installed position, not just
winch it off the truck and dump it by the side of the road. A pallet
service is not going to assist with installation, and I'd not want to trust
Shiply/Anyvan (although with suitable insurance I might consider them for
transport and have people ready to receive). At the least the buyer will
want to coordinate with the courier and not have it organised by a seller
who doesn't care once it's off the premises.

It seems like most lathes on ebay are collection only, so it wouldn't stand
out by not offering shipping. Filtering out the numpties who can't cope
with that is a useful service, although some tips for someone who is willing
to organise their own shipping but doesn't know where to start isn't a
terrible idea.

> ^M

Another CR in your post :)

Theo

Theo wrote:
>> ^M
> Another CR in your post 🙂
Since there's nothing I can do about them, I have to ignore them, sorry

On 26/04/2024 17:45, Andy Burns wrote:
> Theo wrote:
>
>>> ^M
>> Another CR in your post 🙂
>
> Since there's nothing I can do about them, I have to ignore them, sorry

Do you have the equipment to get the kiln onto a pallet?

If so, you might be better off terminating the listing, and relisting
offering delivery included (under your own control). With photos of it
strapped to a pallet, perhaps?

GB wrote:
> Do you have the equipment to get the kiln onto a pallet?
A strong nephew
> If so, you might be better off terminating the listing, and relisting
> offering delivery included (under your own control).  With photos of it
> strapped to a pallet, perhaps?
Have thought about that, but don't want to piss-of people who haven't
asked about delivery vs collection.
Between us tomorrow we're going to move it out of the shed at the bottom
of the garden, into the garage, where it's easy access to a
pump-truck/tail-lift.
I don't have a pallet, or a strap-banding gadget.
Would consider re-listing it that way if it, doesn't sell.
quite surprised at the low insurance on these pallet services £1.30/kg
or pay an extra £10 for £25/kg but that option only avail from
commercial premises not residential addrs.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote in
news:l926scFd7ikU2@mid.individual.net:

> GB wrote:
>
>> Do you have the equipment to get the kiln onto a pallet?
>
> A strong nephew
>
>> If so, you might be better off terminating the listing, and relisting
>> offering delivery included (under your own control).  With photos of
>> it strapped to a pallet, perhaps?
>
> Have thought about that, but don't want to piss-of people who haven't
> asked about delivery vs collection.
>

I'd stick with collection in person or buyer's own carrier as the liability
for the item ends the minute it leaves your hands.

If you offer delivery and the buyers reports it 'not as described' then you
are liable for the return shipping (IIUC).

fred wrote:

> I'd stick with collection in person or buyer's own carrier as the liability
> for the item ends the minute it leaves your hands.

Yes, I think I've just about reached that point, got it moved from the
shed at bottom garden into garage, so easy access via concrete drive,
got it split into three parts, managed to scrounge a decent quality
pallet ...

<https://ebay.co.uk/itm/226099630590>

bring-on the last minute snipers

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> fred wrote:
>
> > I'd stick with collection in person or buyer's own carrier as the liability
> > for the item ends the minute it leaves your hands.
>
> Yes, I think I've just about reached that point, got it moved from the
> shed at bottom garden into garage, so easy access via concrete drive,
> got it split into three parts, managed to scrounge a decent quality
> pallet ...
>
> <https://ebay.co.uk/itm/226099630590>
>
> bring-on the last minute snipers

Looks like a very nice bit of kit. I agree I'd not want to trust that to a
delivery service, as the ceramic looks quite fragile.

Hope you get some interest - it's the sort of thing that makes it tempting
to take up ceramics (ignoring the complete impracticality).

Theo