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A kind of Batman of contemporary letters. -- Philip Larkin on Anthony Burgess


arts / rec.music.gdead / breaking the rules

SubjectAuthor
* breaking the rulesMark-T
`* breaking the rulesBand Beyond Youall
 `* breaking the rulesMark-T
  `* breaking the rulesMark-T
   `- breaking the rulesbmoore

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breaking the rules

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Subject: breaking the rules
From: mark-t2@lycos.com (Mark-T)
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 by: Mark-T - Sun, 25 Sep 2022 00:36 UTC

Every song writer knows that the cadence of the
lyrics must match the natural cadence of the
language. And the rhythm has to enforce that.

For instance, if 'Sunday' appears, and the singer is
forced to pronounce SunDAY, that will hurt the listener's ears.

But occasionally, this rule is breakable.
As example, Irving Berlin's "White Christmas".
In natural speech, one would stress:
"I'm DREAMING of a white CHRISTMAS."

Not heavy stresses, but still there, subtle. But actually,
the song is performed as:
"I'M dreaming of a WHITE Christmas."

And it works, beautifully!
Interviewer: "Is that the best song you ever wrote?"
Berlin: "It's the best song ANYBODY ever wrote."

So, quiz time, gang: can you find any such examples
in the GDead opus?

Mark

Re: breaking the rules

<jpag38F5keeU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: emailTHIS@fractalicious.com (Band Beyond Youall)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: breaking the rules
Date: 25 Sep 2022 07:59:36 GMT
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 by: Band Beyond Youall - Sun, 25 Sep 2022 07:59 UTC

Mark-T <mark-t2@lycos.com> wrote:
> Every song writer knows that the cadence of the
> lyrics must match the natural cadence of the
> language. And the rhythm has to enforce that.
>
> For instance, if 'Sunday' appears, and the singer is
> forced to pronounce SunDAY, that will hurt the listener's ears.
>
> But occasionally, this rule is breakable.
> As example, Irving Berlin's "White Christmas".
> In natural speech, one would stress:
> "I'm DREAMING of a white CHRISTMAS."
>
> Not heavy stresses, but still there, subtle. But actually,
> the song is performed as:
> "I'M dreaming of a WHITE Christmas."
>
> And it works, beautifully!
> Interviewer: "Is that the best song you ever wrote?"
> Berlin: "It's the best song ANYBODY ever wrote."
>
> So, quiz time, gang: can you find any such examples
> in the GDead opus?
>
>
> Mark
>

“His job is to shed light 💡… not to MASTER”

Probably there’re a lot more examples, particularly in the
irregular-cadence Hunter and Weir/Barlow canon, but I haven’t had enough
coffee yet to think more deeply on this topic…

Re: breaking the rules

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Subject: Re: breaking the rules
From: mark-t2@lycos.com (Mark-T)
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 by: Mark-T - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 17:50 UTC

On September 25, Band Beyond Youall wrote:
>> Every song writer knows that the cadence of the
>> lyrics must match the natural cadence of the
>> language. And the rhythm has to enforce that.
>> For instance, if 'Sunday' appears, and the singer is
>> forced to pronounce SunDAY, that will hurt the listener's ears.
>> But occasionally, this rule is breakable.
>> As example, Irving Berlin's "White Christmas".
>> In natural speech, one would stress:
>> "I'm DREAMING of a white CHRISTMAS."
>> Not heavy stresses, but still there, subtle. But actually,
>> the song is performed as:
>> "I'M dreaming of a WHITE Christmas."
>> And it works, beautifully!
>> can you find any such examples in the GDead opus?
>
> “His job is to shed light 💡… not to MASTER”

In speech: "His job is to shed LIGHT... "
Sing: "His job is TO SHED light..."

Yes, that's an example.
Acceptable, though not brilliant, I'd say -

> Probably there’re a lot more examples, particularly in the
> irregular-cadence Hunter and Weir/Barlow canon, but I haven’t had enough
> coffee yet to think more deeply on this topic…

A couple of cases in Jack Straw -

Mark

Re: breaking the rules

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Subject: Re: breaking the rules
From: mark-t2@lycos.com (Mark-T)
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 by: Mark-T - Thu, 29 Sep 2022 18:33 UTC

On September 26, Mark-T wrote:
>>> Every song writer knows that the cadence of the
>>> lyrics must match the natural cadence of the
>>> language. And the rhythm has to enforce that.
>>> But occasionally, this rule is breakable.
>>> As example, Irving Berlin's "White Christmas".
>>> In natural speech, one would stress:
>>> "I'm DREAMING of a white CHRISTMAS."
>>> Not heavy stresses, but still there, subtle. But actually,
>>> the song is performed as:
>>> "I'M dreaming of a WHITE Christmas."
>>> And it works, beautifully!
>> can you find any such examples in the GDead opus?
>
>> Probably there’re a lot more examples, particularly in the
>> irregular-cadence Hunter and Weir/Barlow canon, but I haven’t had enough
>> coffee yet to think more deeply on this topic…
>
> A couple of cases in Jack Straw -

"Catch the DEtroit Lightning out of Santa Fe"
(note the irregular stress)
(correctly pronounced:)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Fr-Le_D%C3%A9troit.ogg

"WE can share the women..."

Scarlet Begonias:
"I knew right away she was not like other girls"
(emphasis on "I")

Mark

Re: breaking the rules

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Subject: Re: breaking the rules
From: bmoore@nyx.net (bmoore)
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 by: bmoore - Thu, 29 Sep 2022 20:00 UTC

On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 11:33:58 AM UTC-7, Mark-T wrote:
> On September 26, Mark-T wrote:
> >>> Every song writer knows that the cadence of the
> >>> lyrics must match the natural cadence of the
> >>> language. And the rhythm has to enforce that.
> >>> But occasionally, this rule is breakable.
> >>> As example, Irving Berlin's "White Christmas".
> >>> In natural speech, one would stress:
> >>> "I'm DREAMING of a white CHRISTMAS."
> >>> Not heavy stresses, but still there, subtle. But actually,
> >>> the song is performed as:
> >>> "I'M dreaming of a WHITE Christmas."
> >>> And it works, beautifully!
> >> can you find any such examples in the GDead opus?
> >
> >> Probably there’re a lot more examples, particularly in the
> >> irregular-cadence Hunter and Weir/Barlow canon, but I haven’t had enough
> >> coffee yet to think more deeply on this topic…
> >
> > A couple of cases in Jack Straw -
> "Catch the DEtroit Lightning out of Santa Fe"
> (note the irregular stress)
> (correctly pronounced:)
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Fr-Le_D%C3%A9troit.ogg

DEtroit is more of an old-timer pronunciation. Canadians have been known to say it that way it too.

Knew an old bartender from KC, Navy veteran, who always talked about how he served on the DEtroit at Pearl Harbor.
> "WE can share the women..."
>
> Scarlet Begonias:
> "I knew right away she was not like other girls"
> (emphasis on "I")
>
> Mark


arts / rec.music.gdead / breaking the rules

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